From coldstuff@cold.org Mon Jul 1 23:05:30 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Brandon Gillespie) Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 16:05:30 -0600 Subject: [Coldstuff] Genesis 1.1.11 References: Message-ID: <3D20D22A.9070503@roguetrader.com> It is updated on the site. -Brandon From coldstuff@cold.org Sat Jul 13 07:11:45 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (klaus schilling) Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 08:11:45 +0200 Subject: [Coldstuff] call_out Message-ID: <15663.50337.736522.100117@gargle.gargle.HOWL> How does one implement hitpoints, spellpoints, combat stats etc. in coldc/colcore? Does it require to modify the coldcore file (esp.the $player object's code) before compiling it with genesis? From coldstuff@cold.org Mon Jul 15 15:14:37 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (klaus schilling) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:14:37 +0200 Subject: [Coldstuff] emacs mode Message-ID: <15666.55501.607521.859262@gargle.gargle.HOWL> is there an emacs mode for edisting coldc source code? From coldstuff@cold.org Mon Jul 15 16:09:29 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Jeremy Weatherford) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:09:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coldstuff] emacs mode In-Reply-To: <15666.55501.607521.859262@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: I think there's a more official one out there, but here's the one I use. Based on php-mode, works reasonably well. If you find a way to make it work better, contribution of your changes would be appreciated. http://cold.xidus.net/coldc-mode.el Jeremy Weatherford xidus@xidus.net http://xidus.net On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, klaus schilling wrote: > is there an emacs mode for edisting coldc source code? > _______________________________________________ > Cold-Coldstuff mailing list > Cold-Coldstuff@cold.org > http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff > From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 17 17:17:43 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (coldstuff@cold.org) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:17:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell Message-ID: <20020717091745.25239.h010.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> Very old stuff, indeed! ColdHell is a modification of Cold Paradigm by Robert Bradley ("Inindo"). I wrote the original Cold Paradigm, and was never completely finished, although it could easily be turned into a very cool MUD. It also was extremely Pueblo-enhanced (significantly more than anything else you find on the Pueblo MUD lists). You're welcome to use the core, provided you get Inindo's permission. He can be found on my new MUD, Epoch. Let me know if you want a character or would be interested in it's development. - Michael "Kipp" Mudge On Tue, 28 May 2002, "Jon A. Lambert" wrote > > Does anyone know what the license restrictions are on the > ColdHell database? > > This is all I could find in the textdump: > // Unless otherwise noted, all code in this database > // is Copyright 1996-1997 > // Michael Mudge > // 4314 Wetzel Rd. Apt. A-8 > // Liverpool, NY 13090 > > Is this thing the same thing that was called Kipp's Core > a few years back? > > Anyways I've run into a few people who've expressed an interest > in "Cold things" and want to tell them whether they'd be wasting > their time with this or not. They aren't commercial people > either, but still. Anyone have any info on it? Docs? Slides? > Comments? Forensics? blah blah? > > -- > --* Jon A. Lambert - TychoMUD Email:jlsysinc@ix.netcom.com *-- > --* Mud Server Developer's Page *-- > --* If I had known it was harmless, I would have killed it myself.*-- > > _______________________________________________ > Cold-Coldstuff mailing list > Cold-Coldstuff@cold.org > http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 17 18:18:38 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Frank Crowell) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:18:38 -0700 Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell References: <20020717091745.25239.h010.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <001501c22db5$fe97ffe0$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> Is it possible to turn ColdHell into an OSI (Open Source), so that the license is clearer? The license question has come up before. Several years ago I tried to get clarification on ColdHell with Inindo and he pointed to you. But I have told other people that the license status for Coldhell was "unknown" -- sort of like the whole LambdaMOO database. ColdHell is still the only publicly available database for Cold that has all the machinery for creating hack-n-slash muds. By that I mean, a person could be fighting mobs Diku or LP style this afternoon with very little modification. For a while both Inindo and I ran a ColdHell version and in fact hooked our muds together so I could run around between the servers. Going back to OSI-- doesn't matter if the license is GPL, LGPL, Berkeley or some other of the many OSI-qualified licenses. Fact is that ColdHell works but most people don't even know it exists. The Pueblo stuff is also interesting, but unfortunately unless the Open Source version of Pueblo comes out someday, then some other thing will have to replace Pueblo. I see a couple of possibilties at this point. One of course is to give ColdHell an Open Source license and have a development team go through and do some bug fixes and figure out what to do about the Pueblo support. Since fewer and fewer people have Pueblo today, the alternatives should be considered. The other possibility is to create a branch -- let's call it ColdHell 2. The previous development team gives license to the new team to create a branch that is under OSI, to credit the original creator/creators, but to also allow Coldhell 2 to evolve in new directions. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [Coldstuff] ColdHell > Very old stuff, indeed! > ColdHell is a modification of Cold Paradigm by Robert Bradley ("Inindo"). > I wrote the original Cold Paradigm, and was never completely finished, > although it could easily be turned into a very cool MUD. It also was > extremely Pueblo-enhanced (significantly more than anything else you find on > the Pueblo MUD lists). > > You're welcome to use the core, provided you get Inindo's permission. He can > be found on my new MUD, Epoch. Let me know if you want a character or would > be interested in it's development. > > - Michael "Kipp" Mudge > > On Tue, 28 May 2002, "Jon A. Lambert" wrote > > > > > Does anyone know what the license restrictions are on the > > ColdHell database? > > > > This is all I could find in the textdump: > > // Unless otherwise noted, all code in this database > > // is Copyright 1996-1997 > > // Michael Mudge > > // 4314 Wetzel Rd. Apt. A-8 > > // Liverpool, NY 13090 > > > > Is this thing the same thing that was called Kipp's Core > > a few years back? > > > > Anyways I've run into a few people who've expressed an interest > > in "Cold things" and want to tell them whether they'd be wasting > > their time with this or not. They aren't commercial people > > either, but still. Anyone have any info on it? Docs? Slides? > > Comments? Forensics? blah blah? > > > > -- > > --* Jon A. Lambert - TychoMUD Email:jlsysinc@ix.netcom.com *-- > > --* Mud Server Developer's Page *-- > > --* If I had known it was harmless, I would have killed it myself.*-- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cold-Coldstuff mailing list > > Cold-Coldstuff@cold.org > > http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff > _______________________________________________ > Cold-Coldstuff mailing list > Cold-Coldstuff@cold.org > http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 17 18:39:54 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Bruce Mitchener) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:39:54 -0600 Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell References: <20020717091745.25239.h010.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> <001501c22db5$fe97ffe0$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> Message-ID: <3D35ABEA.2090507@cubik.org> Frank Crowell wrote: > Fact is that ColdHell works but most people don't even know it exists. The > Pueblo stuff is also interesting, but unfortunately unless the Open Source > version of Pueblo comes out someday, then some other thing will have to > replace Pueblo. For whatever it is worth, Pueblo is open source but not being developed much. There're 2 projects that work on it .. one more active than the other. I also maintain a mirror of much of the old Chaco website. More info can be found on: http://www.cubik.org/mirrors/pueblo/ I think that one of the Pueblo dev efforts is not linked from there, so I'll track it down and link it this evening. But, if you're ignoring all of that and want to think about other options, Mozilla can do some pretty nice stuff. Cheers, - Bruce From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 17 20:08:24 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (coldstuff@cold.org) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:08:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell Message-ID: <20020717120827.26741.h010.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> On Wed, 17 July 2002, "Frank Crowell" wrote > > Is it possible to turn ColdHell into an OSI (Open Source), so that the > license is clearer? > ColdHell is still the only publicly available database for Cold that has > all the machinery for creating hack-n-slash muds. By that I mean, a person > could be fighting mobs Diku or LP style this afternoon with very little > modification. I'm glad to hear it's looked at that way. As far Open Source... Sure, where do I sign? I'm not one for extra work, you know... :) > For a while both Inindo and I ran a ColdHell version and in fact hooked our > muds together so I could run around between the servers. I could talk about this all day. I'm sure Bruce could, too... Talk to me before trying this kind of entanglement on a serious MUD... Another reason I never really pushed to have this seriously public... > Going back to OSI-- doesn't matter if the license is GPL, LGPL, Berkeley or > some other of the many OSI-qualified licenses. Does this mean I'd have to read and understand all of those licenses before picking one? Ohhh.. more work. > Fact is that ColdHell works but most people don't even know it exists. The > Pueblo stuff is also interesting, but unfortunately unless the Open Source > version of Pueblo comes out someday, then some other thing will have to > replace Pueblo. > The other possibility is to create a branch -- let's call it ColdHell 2. > The previous development team gives license to the new team to create a > branch that is under OSI, to credit the original creator/creators, but to > also allow Coldhell 2 to evolve in new directions. I believe ColdHell is still running, in some form, and it IS Inindo's baby, not mine. Without Inindo, I could release the Cold Paradigm core instead (I can't remember if combat is included or not). I would like my name stuck somewhere visible ("Based on code originally written by Michael Mudge"?), as well as Inindo and Psyclone -- other than that, do with it what you wish. Then of course, again, there's Epoch, which I feel much happier about; It's more thorough, much faster and much less buggy... and very MUDdy. Give me a little time (a month?) and I'll have something for you to look at. Again, I am also looking for people (builders + programmers) to become involved immediately. On Wed, 17 July 2002, Bruce Mitchener wrote > For whatever it is worth, Pueblo is open source but not being developed > much. There're 2 projects that work on it .. one more active than the > other. I also maintain a mirror of much of the old Chaco website. > I think that one of the Pueblo dev efforts is not linked from there, so > I'll track it down and link it this evening. The "other" one I think you're talking about is Pueblo/UE. Easy to find with a basic web search. It seems to be a bit less vaporish, but I haven't seen much besides bugfixes (which I greatly appreciate). - Kipp From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 17 20:43:54 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Adam Cormany) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:43:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell In-Reply-To: <20020717120827.26741.h010.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <20020717194354.32345.qmail@web12802.mail.yahoo.com> I would love to see ColdHells code as well! I currently have my own version of Cold/Genesis that I have been working on for 2 or 3 years now, making my own version of MUD, online builder, etc. I have all the prototypes finished and an internal directory/file structure. My Cold basically looks like a ColdUNIX:) My one huge setback I've been having is fighting and mobile movement, and I would love to see ColdHell to get another point of view for coding it. The way I'm currently doing it, it is way too slow and if I load 1000 mobiles, the system basically hangs from so much lag from operations. Where can I sign up/download to see ColdHell? Thanks, Adam Cormany --- michael@mudge.com wrote: > On Wed, 17 July 2002, "Frank Crowell" wrote > > > > > Is it possible to turn ColdHell into an OSI (Open > Source), so that the > > license is clearer? > > > ColdHell is still the only publicly available > database for Cold that has > > all the machinery for creating hack-n-slash muds. > By that I mean, a person > > could be fighting mobs Diku or LP style this > afternoon with very little > > modification. > > I'm glad to hear it's looked at that way. As far > Open Source... Sure, where > do I sign? I'm not one for extra work, you know... > :) > > > For a while both Inindo and I ran a ColdHell > version and in fact hooked our > > muds together so I could run around between the > servers. > > I could talk about this all day. I'm sure Bruce > could, too... Talk to me > before trying this kind of entanglement on a serious > MUD... Another reason I > never really pushed to have this seriously public... > > > Going back to OSI-- doesn't matter if the license > is GPL, LGPL, Berkeley or > > some other of the many OSI-qualified licenses. > > Does this mean I'd have to read and understand all > of those licenses before > picking one? Ohhh.. more work. > > > Fact is that ColdHell works but most people don't > even know it exists. The > > Pueblo stuff is also interesting, but > unfortunately unless the Open Source > > version of Pueblo comes out someday, then some > other thing will have to > > replace Pueblo. > > > > > The other possibility is to create a branch -- > let's call it ColdHell 2. > > The previous development team gives license to the > new team to create a > > branch that is under OSI, to credit the original > creator/creators, but to > > also allow Coldhell 2 to evolve in new directions. > > I believe ColdHell is still running, in some form, > and it IS Inindo's baby, > not mine. Without Inindo, I could release the Cold > Paradigm core instead (I > can't remember if combat is included or not). > > I would like my name stuck somewhere visible ("Based > on code originally > written by Michael Mudge"?), as well as Inindo and > Psyclone -- other than > that, do with it what you wish. > > Then of course, again, there's Epoch, which I feel > much happier about; It's > more thorough, much faster and much less buggy... > and very MUDdy. Give me a > little time (a month?) and I'll have something for > you to look at. Again, I > am also looking for people (builders + programmers) > to become involved > immediately. > > On Wed, 17 July 2002, Bruce Mitchener wrote > > > For whatever it is worth, Pueblo is open source > but not being developed > > much. There're 2 projects that work on it .. one > more active than the > > other. I also maintain a mirror of much of the > old Chaco website. > > > I think that one of the Pueblo dev efforts is not > linked from there, so > > I'll track it down and link it this evening. > > The "other" one I think you're talking about is > Pueblo/UE. Easy to find with > a basic web search. It seems to be a bit less > vaporish, but I haven't seen > much besides bugfixes (which I greatly appreciate). > > - Kipp > _______________________________________________ > Cold-Coldstuff mailing list > Cold-Coldstuff@cold.org > http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 17 19:45:07 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (klaus schilling) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:45:07 +0200 Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell In-Reply-To: <001501c22db5$fe97ffe0$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> References: <20020717091745.25239.h010.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> <001501c22db5$fe97ffe0$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> Message-ID: <15669.47923.391505.673951@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Frank Crowell writes: > The other possibility is to create a branch -- let's call it ColdHell 2. > The previous development team gives license to the new team to create a > branch that is under OSI, to credit the original creator/creators, but to > also allow Coldhell 2 to evolve in new directions. > Is it too hard to write a GPLed hack-and-slash mud from scratch? Or does Genesis-3.* contain non-free code, as ColdMud does? I try to write a single user turn-oriented RPG based on MinimalCore, as ColdCore contains too much bloat for that purpose. Klaus Schilling From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 17 21:43:56 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Jeremy Weatherford) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:43:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell In-Reply-To: <20020717194354.32345.qmail@web12802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: ColdHell has been available on ftp.cold.org for some time now. Jeremy Weatherford xidus@xidus.net http://xidus.net On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, Adam Cormany wrote: > I would love to see ColdHells code as well! I > currently have my own version of Cold/Genesis that I > have been working on for 2 or 3 years now, making my > own version of MUD, online builder, etc. I have all > the prototypes finished and an internal directory/file > structure. My Cold basically looks like a ColdUNIX:) > > My one huge setback I've been having is fighting and > mobile movement, and I would love to see ColdHell to > get another point of view for coding it. The way I'm > currently doing it, it is way too slow and if I load > 1000 mobiles, the system basically hangs from so much > lag from operations. > > Where can I sign up/download to see ColdHell? > > Thanks, > Adam Cormany > > --- michael@mudge.com wrote: > > On Wed, 17 July 2002, "Frank Crowell" wrote > > > > > > > > Is it possible to turn ColdHell into an OSI (Open > > Source), so that the > > > license is clearer? > > > > > ColdHell is still the only publicly available > > database for Cold that has > > > all the machinery for creating hack-n-slash muds. > > By that I mean, a person > > > could be fighting mobs Diku or LP style this > > afternoon with very little > > > modification. > > > > I'm glad to hear it's looked at that way. As far > > Open Source... Sure, where > > do I sign? I'm not one for extra work, you know... > > :) > > > > > For a while both Inindo and I ran a ColdHell > > version and in fact hooked our > > > muds together so I could run around between the > > servers. > > > > I could talk about this all day. I'm sure Bruce > > could, too... Talk to me > > before trying this kind of entanglement on a serious > > MUD... Another reason I > > never really pushed to have this seriously public... > > > > > Going back to OSI-- doesn't matter if the license > > is GPL, LGPL, Berkeley or > > > some other of the many OSI-qualified licenses. > > > > Does this mean I'd have to read and understand all > > of those licenses before > > picking one? Ohhh.. more work. > > > > > Fact is that ColdHell works but most people don't > > even know it exists. The > > > Pueblo stuff is also interesting, but > > unfortunately unless the Open Source > > > version of Pueblo comes out someday, then some > > other thing will have to > > > replace Pueblo. > > > > > > > > > The other possibility is to create a branch -- > > let's call it ColdHell 2. > > > The previous development team gives license to the > > new team to create a > > > branch that is under OSI, to credit the original > > creator/creators, but to > > > also allow Coldhell 2 to evolve in new directions. > > > > I believe ColdHell is still running, in some form, > > and it IS Inindo's baby, > > not mine. Without Inindo, I could release the Cold > > Paradigm core instead (I > > can't remember if combat is included or not). > > > > I would like my name stuck somewhere visible ("Based > > on code originally > > written by Michael Mudge"?), as well as Inindo and > > Psyclone -- other than > > that, do with it what you wish. > > > > Then of course, again, there's Epoch, which I feel > > much happier about; It's > > more thorough, much faster and much less buggy... > > and very MUDdy. Give me a > > little time (a month?) and I'll have something for > > you to look at. Again, I > > am also looking for people (builders + programmers) > > to become involved > > immediately. > > > > On Wed, 17 July 2002, Bruce Mitchener wrote > > > > > For whatever it is worth, Pueblo is open source > > but not being developed > > > much. There're 2 projects that work on it .. one > > more active than the > > > other. I also maintain a mirror of much of the > > old Chaco website. > > > > > I think that one of the Pueblo dev efforts is not > > linked from there, so > > > I'll track it down and link it this evening. > > > > The "other" one I think you're talking about is > > Pueblo/UE. Easy to find with > > a basic web search. It seems to be a bit less > > vaporish, but I haven't seen > > much besides bugfixes (which I greatly appreciate). > > > > - Kipp > > _______________________________________________ > > Cold-Coldstuff mailing list > > Cold-Coldstuff@cold.org > > http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes > http://autos.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Cold-Coldstuff mailing list > Cold-Coldstuff@cold.org > http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff > From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 17 21:47:27 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Frank Crowell) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:47:27 -0700 Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell References: <20020717120827.26741.h010.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <006001c22dd3$2a867740$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [Coldstuff] ColdHell > On Wed, 17 July 2002, "Frank Crowell" wrote > > > > ColdHell is still the only publicly available database for Cold that has > > all the machinery for creating hack-n-slash muds. By that I mean, a person > > could be fighting mobs Diku or LP style this afternoon with very little > > modification. > > I'm glad to hear it's looked at that way. As far Open Source... Sure, where > do I sign? I'm not one for extra work, you know... :) The good news is that once ColdHell becomes Open Source you never have to deal with it if you don't want -- not even to answer a license question or look at a bug. It's the easy life. Or you can still retain as much control as you want, depending on the license agreement. Or Inindo can be the project manager for it -- if he wants. I would suggest the following: 1. Get written agreements to go Open Source from the other developers: Inindo, Psyclone, DarkIceV (?). You or your agent can do that and keep those emails (I assume that email is the chosen method) tucked away safely. 2. Prepare a license file that states what the general license is and any special conditions that you want to include (such as credits). List the developers and a license contact person/agency. 3. Any place where you have a copyright notice, slap in a one-liner mentioning the license file then there are a couple of other things that could be done: -(optional) create a project on SourceForge. Or have your agent do it. This assume that there is at least one person willing to act as project manager. Could be you. Could be someone else. -(optional) you or your agent announce the Open Source project on MUD-DEV. This has the effect of entering the act into the public records. and presto the project is Open Source. > > Going back to OSI-- doesn't matter if the license is GPL, LGPL, Berkeley or > > some other of the many OSI-qualified licenses. > > Does this mean I'd have to read and understand all of those licenses before > picking one? Ohhh.. more work. Not really. Just avoid GPL if you can. For ColdHell, GPL is probably okay because it shouldn't affect other software. I am sure that Bruce has a favorite or two that he could suggest. No sense in getting overly concerned about this. But i have seen a project come to almost a complete halt because of a GPL issue. I had followed Bruce's advice several months ago and asked the project to reconsider using another OSI. They didn't and now they are scrambling. > > I believe ColdHell is still running, in some form, and it IS Inindo's baby, > not mine. Without Inindo, I could release the Cold Paradigm core instead (I > can't remember if combat is included or not). Last time I talked to Inindo he was a level 6 mage killing gnolls in BlackBurrows (Everquest). Everyone on the dev team has to agree and according to my own formula based on 3s -- two will always say "yes" and the third will say "no". As for Cold Paradigm, last time I was on a Pardigm system it was still a MOO system -- I believe. > > I would like my name stuck somewhere visible ("Based on code originally > written by Michael Mudge"?), as well as Inindo and Psyclone -- other than > that, do with it what you wish. > Licenses can be structured any way. I certainly would expect some visible credits for the creators. > Then of course, again, there's Epoch, which I feel much happier about; It's > more thorough, much faster and much less buggy... and very MUDdy. Give me a > little time (a month?) and I'll have something for you to look at. Again, I > am also looking for people (builders + programmers) to become involved > immediately. Of course if later you want Epoch to go Open Source, then you could create a project such as WorldForge did where you have several Open Source projects in various forms of completion. Not everything has to be perfect. SourceForge could be you Open Source site. Or you can split Epoch into two parts where the core is Open Source and the game/world specifics are not (thats one reason why you don't want GPL). > > On Wed, 17 July 2002, Bruce Mitchener wrote > > I think that one of the Pueblo dev efforts is not linked from there, so > > I'll track it down and link it this evening. > > The "other" one I think you're talking about is Pueblo/UE. Easy to find with > a basic web search. It seems to be a bit less vaporish, but I haven't seen > much besides bugfixes (which I greatly appreciate). A version that actually compiles would be a great start. frank From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 17 21:57:12 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Frank Crowell) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:57:12 -0700 Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell References: <20020717194354.32345.qmail@web12802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007301c22dd4$86b94280$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Cormany" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [Coldstuff] ColdHell > I would love to see ColdHells code as well! I > currently have my own version of Cold/Genesis that I > have been working on for 2 or 3 years now, making my > own version of MUD, online builder, etc. I have all > the prototypes finished and an internal directory/file > structure. My Cold basically looks like a ColdUNIX:) Is that like the MudOS/Lima internal file system? The LPmuds had an interesting way of working with files that included the ability to dynamically load various files and unload them. You could also cd into the world directory and goto the file which of course resulted in the room being loaded. > > My one huge setback I've been having is fighting and > mobile movement, and I would love to see ColdHell to > get another point of view for coding it. The way I'm > currently doing it, it is way too slow and if I load > 1000 mobiles, the system basically hangs from so much > lag from operations. > I am not clear on what it would take to handle a heavily populated, animated world. I saw the death of Gods Net (if I remember the name correctly) on LambdaMOO die because it was too much for the server. Even LPMuds started to show signs of poor performance when they had mobs that did too much. Dikus probably did a little better because there was no interpeted coded. At some point maybe this becames a server issue and not a database issue. frank From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 17 22:05:20 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Bruce Mitchener) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:05:20 -0600 Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell References: <20020717120827.26741.h010.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> <006001c22dd3$2a867740$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> Message-ID: <3D35DC10.5030108@cubik.org> Frank Crowell wrote: > Not really. Just avoid GPL if you can. For ColdHell, GPL is probably okay > because it shouldn't affect other software. I am sure that Bruce has a > favorite or two that he could suggest. No sense in getting overly concerned > about this. But i have seen a project come to almost a complete halt > because of a GPL issue. I had followed Bruce's advice several months ago > and asked the project to reconsider using another OSI. They didn't and now > they are scrambling. BSD or MIT licenses nicely avoid that sort of thing, but also tend to grant less 'protection' back to the developer .. yet that's what cold is under, as well as things like a family of OSes (the BSDs, duh), and a 3D engine the Nebula Device (http://www.radonlabs.de/) and so on. Works nicely, little issue if someone wants to do commercial use. - Bruce From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 17 22:32:15 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (coldstuff@cold.org) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:32:15 -0500 Subject: [Coldstuff] Get 4 objects w/methods from corrupt database? Message-ID: --openmail-part-0094f02a-00000002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline ;Creation-Date="Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:26:18 -0500" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey All, I've had the misfortune of yet another database corruption. I REALLY don't want to restart from scratch again, all I need from the old= corrupt database are four measily objects and their methods.=20 I've tried textdumping it, tried restoring backups... no dice. No matter what I try the database is corrupted.=20 Is there any way I can get that data, those four little objects, from the corrupt database?=20 THANKS! =2D Grim/Andy --openmail-part-0094f02a-00000002 Content-Type: application/rtf Content-Disposition: attachment ;Creation-Date="Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:26:18 -0500" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 e1xydGYxXGFuc2lcZGVmZjB7XGZvbnR0Ymx7XGYwXGZyb21hbiBUbXMgUm1uO317XGYxXGZy b21hbiBDb3VyaWVyIE5ldzt9fXtcY29sb3J0YmxccmVkMFxncmVlbjBcYmx1ZTA7XHJlZDBc Z3JlZW4wXGJsdWUyNTU7XHJlZDBcZ3JlZW4yNTVcYmx1ZTI1NTtccmVkMFxncmVlbjI1NVxi bHVlMDtccmVkMjU1XGdyZWVuMFxibHVlMjU1O1xyZWQyNTVcZ3JlZW4wXGJsdWUwO1xyZWQy NTVcZ3JlZW4yNTVcYmx1ZTA7XHJlZDI1NVxncmVlbjI1NVxibHVlMjU1O1xyZWQwXGdyZWVu MFxibHVlMTI3O1xyZWQwXGdyZWVuMTI3XGJsdWUxMjc7XHJlZDBcZ3JlZW4xMjdcYmx1ZTA7 XHJlZDEyN1xncmVlbjBcYmx1ZTEyNztccmVkMTI3XGdyZWVuMFxibHVlMDtccmVkMTI3XGdy ZWVuMTI3XGJsdWUwO1xyZWQxMjdcZ3JlZW4xMjdcYmx1ZTEyNztccmVkMTkyXGdyZWVuMTky XGJsdWUxOTJ9e1xpbmZve1xjcmVhdGltXHlyMjAwMlxtbzdcZHkxN1xocjE2XG1pbjI2XHNl YzE5fXtcdmVyc2lvbjF9e1x2ZXJuMTk3OTg1fX1ccGFwZXJ3MTIyNDBccGFwZXJoMTU4NDBc bWFyZ2w3MjBcbWFyZ3IyNzkyXG1hcmd0MTQ0MFxtYXJnYjE0NDBcZGVmdGFiNzIwXHBhcmRc cWxcbGkwXGZpMFxyaTcze1xmMVxmczIwXGNmMFx1cDBcZG4wIEhleSBBbGwsfXtccGFyfVxw YXJkXHFsXGxpMFxmaTBccmk3M3tcZjFcZnMyMFxjZjBcdXAwXGRuMFx0YWJ9e1xmMVxmczIw XGNmMFx1cDBcZG4wIEkndmUgaGFkIHRoZSBtaXNmb3J0dW5lIG9mIHlldCBhbm90aGVyIGRh dGFiYXNlIGNvcnJ1cHRpb24uIEkgfVxxbHtcZjFcZnMyMFxjZjBcdXAwXGRuMCBSRUFMTFkg ZG9uJ3Qgd2FudCB0byByZXN0YXJ0IGZyb20gc2NyYXRjaCBhZ2FpbiwgYWxsIEkgbmVlZCBm cm9tIHRoZSBvbGQgfVxxbHtcZjFcZnMyMFxjZjBcdXAwXGRuMCBjb3JydXB0IGRhdGFiYXNl IGFyZSBmb3VyIG1lYXNpbHkgb2JqZWN0cyBhbmQgdGhlaXIgbWV0aG9kcy4gfXtccGFyfVxw YXJkXHFsXGxpMFxmaTBccmk3M3tcZjFcZnMyMFxjZjBcdXAwXGRuMFxwYXJ9XHBhcmRccWxc bGkwXGZpMFxyaTcze1xmMVxmczIwXGNmMFx1cDBcZG4wXHRhYn17XGYxXGZzMjBcY2YwXHVw MFxkbjAgSSd2ZSB0cmllZCB0ZXh0ZHVtcGluZyBpdCwgdHJpZWQgcmVzdG9yaW5nIGJhY2t1 cHMuLi4gbm8gZGljZS4gTm8gfVxxbHtcZjFcZnMyMFxjZjBcdXAwXGRuMCBtYXR0ZXIgd2hh dCBJIHRyeSB0aGUgZGF0YWJhc2UgaXMgY29ycnVwdGVkLiB9e1xwYXJ9XHBhcmRccWxcbGkw XGZpMFxyaTcze1xmMVxmczIwXGNmMFx1cDBcZG4wXHBhcn1ccGFyZFxxbFxsaTBcZmkwXHJp NzN7XGYxXGZzMjBcY2YwXHVwMFxkbjBcdGFifXtcZjFcZnMyMFxjZjBcdXAwXGRuMCBJcyB0 aGVyZSBhbnkgd2F5IEkgY2FuIGdldCB0aGF0IGRhdGEsIHRob3NlIGZvdXIgbGl0dGxlIG9i amVjdHMsIH1ccWx7XGYxXGZzMjBcY2YwXHVwMFxkbjAgZnJvbSB0aGUgY29ycnVwdCBkYXRh YmFzZT8gfXtccGFyfVxwYXJkXHFsXGxpMFxmaTBccmk3M3tcZjFcZnMyMFxjZjBcdXAwXGRu MFxwYXJ9XHBhcmRccWxcbGkwXGZpMFxyaTcze1xmMVxmczIwXGNmMFx1cDBcZG4wIFRIQU5L UyF9e1xwYXJ9XHBhcmRccWxcbGkwXGZpMFxyaTcze1xmMVxmczIwXGNmMFx1cDBcZG4wIC0g R3JpbS9BbmR5fX0= --openmail-part-0094f02a-00000002-- From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 17 22:52:17 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Frank Crowell) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:52:17 -0700 Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell References: <20020717091745.25239.h010.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net><001501c22db5$fe97ffe0$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> <15669.47923.391505.673951@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <008201c22ddc$395dd160$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "klaus schilling" <320085037630-0001@t-online.de> To: Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [Coldstuff] ColdHell > Frank Crowell writes: > > The other possibility is to create a branch -- let's call it ColdHell 2. > > The previous development team gives license to the new team to create a > > branch that is under OSI, to credit the original creator/creators, but to > > also allow Coldhell 2 to evolve in new directions. > > > Is it too hard to write a GPLed hack-and-slash mud from scratch? It's too hard, takes too long, and you end up writing code for yourself. Here's what I mean -- picking on MudOS for the moment. MudOS is a branch off the LPMud tree and from MudOS comes several libraries including the Nightmare, Lima, and a few others. Lima attempted to be the most generic, but included all the capabilities you would find in a normal hack-n-slash. They all worked with MudOS but they were not compatible with each other. So if you found an LP object on one mud, that didn't mean that it could easily be used on another mud if it didn't use the same library or even the same version. And that has been the history of most muds. So everyone re-invents instead of re-uses. Of course the commerical world is filled with examples like this, so maybe this is the natural progression of things. > I try to write a single user turn-oriented RPG based on MinimalCore, > as ColdCore contains too much bloat for that purpose. > I always get confused on "turn-based". Is that when one side makes all the moves, then the other side makes all the moves, then everything happens in one round? frank From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 17 22:36:00 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Pat Moroney) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:36:00 -0400 Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell Message-ID: <465E88A5809A9E4F9D6313331087BC401F5D@les1.lstrat.com> Hey how come I'm not listed there? I wouldn't mind my code being open source. I don't remember most of it. But I think my MOB handling was quite nice. And probably very unconventional. -Pat Moroney "Lestat" -----Original Message----- From: Frank Crowell [mailto:frankc@maddog.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 4:47 PM To: coldstuff@cold.org Subject: Re: [Coldstuff] ColdHell ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [Coldstuff] ColdHell > On Wed, 17 July 2002, "Frank Crowell" wrote > > > > ColdHell is still the only publicly available database for Cold that has > > all the machinery for creating hack-n-slash muds. By that I mean, a person > > could be fighting mobs Diku or LP style this afternoon with very little > > modification. > > I'm glad to hear it's looked at that way. As far Open Source... Sure, where > do I sign? I'm not one for extra work, you know... :) The good news is that once ColdHell becomes Open Source you never have to deal with it if you don't want -- not even to answer a license question or look at a bug. It's the easy life. Or you can still retain as much control as you want, depending on the license agreement. Or Inindo can be the project manager for it -- if he wants. I would suggest the following: 1. Get written agreements to go Open Source from the other developers: Inindo, Psyclone, DarkIceV (?). You or your agent can do that and keep those emails (I assume that email is the chosen method) tucked away safely. 2. Prepare a license file that states what the general license is and any special conditions that you want to include (such as credits). List the developers and a license contact person/agency. 3. Any place where you have a copyright notice, slap in a one-liner mentioning the license file then there are a couple of other things that could be done: -(optional) create a project on SourceForge. Or have your agent do it. This assume that there is at least one person willing to act as project manager. Could be you. Could be someone else. -(optional) you or your agent announce the Open Source project on MUD-DEV. This has the effect of entering the act into the public records. and presto the project is Open Source. > > Going back to OSI-- doesn't matter if the license is GPL, LGPL, Berkeley or > > some other of the many OSI-qualified licenses. > > Does this mean I'd have to read and understand all of those licenses before > picking one? Ohhh.. more work. Not really. Just avoid GPL if you can. For ColdHell, GPL is probably okay because it shouldn't affect other software. I am sure that Bruce has a favorite or two that he could suggest. No sense in getting overly concerned about this. But i have seen a project come to almost a complete halt because of a GPL issue. I had followed Bruce's advice several months ago and asked the project to reconsider using another OSI. They didn't and now they are scrambling. > > I believe ColdHell is still running, in some form, and it IS Inindo's baby, > not mine. Without Inindo, I could release the Cold Paradigm core instead (I > can't remember if combat is included or not). Last time I talked to Inindo he was a level 6 mage killing gnolls in BlackBurrows (Everquest). Everyone on the dev team has to agree and according to my own formula based on 3s -- two will always say "yes" and the third will say "no". As for Cold Paradigm, last time I was on a Pardigm system it was still a MOO system -- I believe. > > I would like my name stuck somewhere visible ("Based on code originally > written by Michael Mudge"?), as well as Inindo and Psyclone -- other than > that, do with it what you wish. > Licenses can be structured any way. I certainly would expect some visible credits for the creators. > Then of course, again, there's Epoch, which I feel much happier about; It's > more thorough, much faster and much less buggy... and very MUDdy. Give me a > little time (a month?) and I'll have something for you to look at. Again, I > am also looking for people (builders + programmers) to become involved > immediately. Of course if later you want Epoch to go Open Source, then you could create a project such as WorldForge did where you have several Open Source projects in various forms of completion. Not everything has to be perfect. SourceForge could be you Open Source site. Or you can split Epoch into two parts where the core is Open Source and the game/world specifics are not (thats one reason why you don't want GPL). > > On Wed, 17 July 2002, Bruce Mitchener wrote > > I think that one of the Pueblo dev efforts is not linked from there, so > > I'll track it down and link it this evening. > > The "other" one I think you're talking about is Pueblo/UE. Easy to find with > a basic web search. It seems to be a bit less vaporish, but I haven't seen > much besides bugfixes (which I greatly appreciate). A version that actually compiles would be a great start. frank _______________________________________________ Cold-Coldstuff mailing list Cold-Coldstuff@cold.org http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 17 23:36:57 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Frank Crowell) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:36:57 -0700 Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell References: <465E88A5809A9E4F9D6313331087BC401F5D@les1.lstrat.com> Message-ID: <009101c22de2$762b4040$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Moroney" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 2:36 PM Subject: RE: [Coldstuff] ColdHell > Hey how come I'm not listed there? > I wouldn't mind my code being open source. > I don't remember most of it. But I think my MOB handling was quite nice. > And probably very unconventional. > > -Pat Moroney "Lestat" > Actually your name would have popped up because I have seen it in the database files. But you illustrate the problem that LambdaMOO ran into when they tried to figure who owned what part of the LambdaMOO core. That's why in later years the LamdbaMOO server was relicensed to appease the Xerox lawyers but the core was always left as "indeterminate". I don't remember the mechanics of your mob handling either, except I remember a time when I returned to my server after I had been gone for several days. Apparently my character had stayed active and one of my wandering mobs kept finding me and fighting me. By the time I logged back in I had a huge negative number for hps. frank From coldstuff@cold.org Thu Jul 18 00:50:40 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Robert Bradley) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:50:40 -0600 Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell In-Reply-To: <009101c22de2$762b4040$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> Message-ID: <001301c22dec$c26e3750$0200a8c0@alphaprime> I don't mind signing an open source license at all, but I agree with Michael Mudge, I'd like to my name someplace visible (ie "based on work done by blah blah"). I don't really want to manage the project though; I'd be willing to provide limited assistance to who ever does decide manage it however. I'm currently working on another project called FrozenCore which I'm focusing most of my efforts on. If your interested in FrozenCore, let me know, I can always use good programmers and builders. Robert Bradley Aka Inindo -----Original Message----- From: cold-coldstuff-admin@cold.org [mailto:cold-coldstuff-admin@cold.org] On Behalf Of Frank Crowell Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 4:37 PM To: coldstuff@cold.org Subject: Re: [Coldstuff] ColdHell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Moroney" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 2:36 PM Subject: RE: [Coldstuff] ColdHell > Hey how come I'm not listed there? > I wouldn't mind my code being open source. > I don't remember most of it. But I think my MOB handling was quite nice. > And probably very unconventional. > > -Pat Moroney "Lestat" > Actually your name would have popped up because I have seen it in the database files. But you illustrate the problem that LambdaMOO ran into when they tried to figure who owned what part of the LambdaMOO core. That's why in later years the LamdbaMOO server was relicensed to appease the Xerox lawyers but the core was always left as "indeterminate". I don't remember the mechanics of your mob handling either, except I remember a time when I returned to my server after I had been gone for several days. Apparently my character had stayed active and one of my wandering mobs kept finding me and fighting me. By the time I logged back in I had a huge negative number for hps. frank _______________________________________________ Cold-Coldstuff mailing list Cold-Coldstuff@cold.org http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff From coldstuff@cold.org Thu Jul 18 01:12:24 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (coldstuff@cold.org) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:12:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coldstuff] Re: Bytecoded language speed Message-ID: <20020717171225.13039.h003.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> On Wed, 17 July 2002, "Frank Crowell" wrote > I am not clear on what it would take to handle a heavily populated, animated > world. I saw the death of Gods Net (if I remember the name correctly) on > LambdaMOO die because it was too much for the server. Even LPMuds started > to show signs of poor performance when they had mobs that did too much. > Dikus probably did a little better because there was no interpeted coded. > > At some point maybe this becames a server issue and not a database issue. Much of the problem here is that bytecode MUDs are very easy to code on, and they're very fast before people start logging on. Everyone gets so wrapped up with writing cool code quickly, nobody pays attention to speed. However, I do think that bytecode MUDs can run efficiently if speed is kept in mind from the start. ColdC incorporates data types and programming structures that would be a major bi*ch to implement in languages such as C, making C programmers much less likely to use these optimized methods. With things like dictionaries being so easy to implement in ColdC, a speed-conscious programmer can easily make code that is actually faster because it is easier to "do it right". Speed is a major concern on Epoch, which uses dictionaries to find commands. I don't know how this compares to other cores, but it takes about 6K ticks to find a command in a populated room, and 4K to execute it (including parsing markup) on average. That's about 55K microseconds on my Pent/133. Yes, statistics are automatically kept on this. Anyone have any other benchmarks? - Kipp From coldstuff@cold.org Thu Jul 18 01:21:54 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (coldstuff@cold.org) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coldstuff] Get 4 objects w/methods from corrupt database? Message-ID: <20020717172155.28851.h005.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> Try finding a file named ".clean" (from any genesis of the same build will do) and throw it in the binary directory, then try decompiling. If it works, recompile and your MUD should be fine. - Kipp On Wed, 17 July 2002, Andy_Croft@npd.com wrote > > Hey All, > I've had the misfortune of yet another database corruption. I > REALLY don't want to restart from scratch again, all I need from the old > corrupt database are four measily objects and their methods. > > I've tried textdumping it, tried restoring backups... no dice. No > matter what I try the database is corrupted. > > Is there any way I can get that data, those four little objects, > from the corrupt database? > > THANKS! > - Grim/Andy From coldstuff@cold.org Thu Jul 18 06:27:03 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Brad Roberts) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:27:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coldstuff] Get 4 objects w/methods from corrupt database? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Questions: 1) how are you backing up your database? a) if you're not using the script that comes with coldcore from ftp.cold.org, you really should take a look at it. It's very comprehensive. b) if you prefer to roll your own, take a look anyway. 2) what's causing your corruption? a) is genesis crashing and leaving your database unclean? b) shutting down the system without shutting down genesis first? 3) more details that you can give me/us? Mike gave a good first thing to try in terms of what might be going on, but your email doesn't really give enough information about what exactly your situation is to be of much more help. Try to be as detailed as you can. Later, Brad On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 Andy_Croft@npd.com wrote: > Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:32:15 -0500 > From: Andy_Croft@npd.com > Reply-To: coldstuff@cold.org > To: cold-coldstuff@cold.org > Subject: [Coldstuff] Get 4 objects w/methods from corrupt database? > > Hey All, > I've had the misfortune of yet another database corruption. I > REALLY don't want to restart from scratch again, all I need from the old > corrupt database are four measily objects and their methods. > > I've tried textdumping it, tried restoring backups... no dice. No > matter what I try the database is corrupted. > > Is there any way I can get that data, those four little objects, > from the corrupt database? > > THANKS! > - Grim/Andy > From coldstuff@cold.org Thu Jul 18 06:27:03 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Brad Roberts) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:27:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coldstuff] Get 4 objects w/methods from corrupt database? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Questions: 1) how are you backing up your database? a) if you're not using the script that comes with coldcore from ftp.cold.org, you really should take a look at it. It's very comprehensive. b) if you prefer to roll your own, take a look anyway. 2) what's causing your corruption? a) is genesis crashing and leaving your database unclean? b) shutting down the system without shutting down genesis first? 3) more details that you can give me/us? Mike gave a good first thing to try in terms of what might be going on, but your email doesn't really give enough information about what exactly your situation is to be of much more help. Try to be as detailed as you can. Later, Brad On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 Andy_Croft@npd.com wrote: > Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:32:15 -0500 > From: Andy_Croft@npd.com > Reply-To: coldstuff@cold.org > To: cold-coldstuff@cold.org > Subject: [Coldstuff] Get 4 objects w/methods from corrupt database? > > Hey All, > I've had the misfortune of yet another database corruption. I > REALLY don't want to restart from scratch again, all I need from the old > corrupt database are four measily objects and their methods. > > I've tried textdumping it, tried restoring backups... no dice. No > matter what I try the database is corrupted. > > Is there any way I can get that data, those four little objects, > from the corrupt database? > > THANKS! > - Grim/Andy > From coldstuff@cold.org Thu Jul 18 13:30:54 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Robert Bradley) Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:30:54 -0600 Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell In-Reply-To: <006001c22dd3$2a867740$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> References: <20020717120827.26741.h010.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> <006001c22dd3$2a867740$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> Message-ID: <200207180630.54375.bradleyr41@adelphia.net> Hmm, it should compile. There is a slight chance it may be in dos format= , in=20 which case the carriage returns will need to be removed (utility called=20 dos2unix works pretty good). Anyways, I'll check it out when I get home = from=20 work tonight. Rob On Wednesday 17 July 2002 02:47 pm, Frank Crowell wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:08 PM > Subject: Re: [Coldstuff] ColdHell > > > On Wed, 17 July 2002, "Frank Crowell" wrote > > > > > ColdHell is still the only publicly available database for Cold tha= t > > > has all the machinery for creating hack-n-slash muds. By that I mea= n, a > > person > > > > could be fighting mobs Diku or LP style this afternoon with very li= ttle > > > modification. > > > > I'm glad to hear it's looked at that way. As far Open Source... Sur= e, > > where > > > do I sign? I'm not one for extra work, you know... :) > > The good news is that once ColdHell becomes Open Source you never have = to > deal with it if you don't want -- not even to answer a license question= or > look at a bug. It's the easy life. Or you can still retain as much con= trol > as you want, depending on the license agreement. Or Inindo can be the > project manager for it -- if he wants. > > I would suggest the following: > > 1. Get written agreements to go Open Source from the other developers: > Inindo, Psyclone, DarkIceV (?). > You or your agent can do that and keep those emails (I assume that emai= l is > the chosen method) tucked away safely. > > 2. Prepare a license file that states what the general license is and a= ny > special conditions that you want to include (such as credits). List th= e > developers and a license contact person/agency. > > 3. Any place where you have a copyright notice, slap in a one-liner > mentioning the license file > > then there are a couple of other things that could be done: > > -(optional) create a project on SourceForge. Or have your agent do it. > This assume that there is at least one person willing to act as project > manager. Could be you. Could be someone else. > > -(optional) you or your agent announce the Open Source project on MUD-D= EV. > This has the effect of entering the act into the public records. > > and presto the project is Open Source. > > > > Going back to OSI-- doesn't matter if the license is GPL, LGPL, > > > Berkeley > > or > > > > some other of the many OSI-qualified licenses. > > > > Does this mean I'd have to read and understand all of those licenses > > before > > > picking one? Ohhh.. more work. > > Not really. Just avoid GPL if you can. For ColdHell, GPL is probably = okay > because it shouldn't affect other software. I am sure that Bruce has = a > favorite or two that he could suggest. No sense in getting overly > concerned about this. But i have seen a project come to almost a compl= ete > halt because of a GPL issue. I had followed Bruce's advice several mon= ths > ago and asked the project to reconsider using another OSI. They didn't= and > now they are scrambling. > > > I believe ColdHell is still running, in some form, and it IS Inindo's > > baby, > > > not mine. Without Inindo, I could release the Cold Paradigm core ins= tead > > (I > > > can't remember if combat is included or not). > > Last time I talked to Inindo he was a level 6 mage killing gnolls in > BlackBurrows (Everquest). Everyone on the dev team has to agree and > according to my own formula based on 3s -- two will always say "yes" an= d > the third will say "no". > > As for Cold Paradigm, last time I was on a Pardigm system it was still = a > MOO system -- I believe. > > > I would like my name stuck somewhere visible ("Based on code original= ly > > written by Michael Mudge"?), as well as Inindo and Psyclone -- other = than > > that, do with it what you wish. > > Licenses can be structured any way. I certainly would expect some visi= ble > credits for the creators. > > > Then of course, again, there's Epoch, which I feel much happier about= ; > > It's > > > more thorough, much faster and much less buggy... and very MUDdy. Gi= ve > > me > > a > > > little time (a month?) and I'll have something for you to look at.=20 > > Again, > > I > > > am also looking for people (builders + programmers) to become involve= d > > immediately. > > Of course if later you want Epoch to go Open Source, then you could cre= ate > a project such as WorldForge did where you have several Open Source > projects in various forms of completion. Not everything has to be perf= ect. > SourceForge could be you Open Source site. Or you can split Epoch into= two > parts where the core is Open Source and the game/world specifics are no= t > (thats one reason why you don't want GPL). > > > On Wed, 17 July 2002, Bruce Mitchener wrote > > > > > I think that one of the Pueblo dev efforts is not linked from there= , so > > > I'll track it down and link it this evening. > > > > The "other" one I think you're talking about is Pueblo/UE. Easy to f= ind > > with > > > a basic web search. It seems to be a bit less vaporish, but I haven'= t > > seen > > > much besides bugfixes (which I greatly appreciate). > > A version that actually compiles would be a great start. > > frank > > _______________________________________________ > Cold-Coldstuff mailing list > Cold-Coldstuff@cold.org > http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff From coldstuff@cold.org Thu Jul 18 15:00:44 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Adam Cormany) Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:00:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell In-Reply-To: <007301c22dd4$86b94280$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> Message-ID: <20020718140044.44288.qmail@web12801.mail.yahoo.com> I've never seen the LPMUD/MUDOS/Lima directory structures. I'm assuming(hoping) everyone has some sort of UNIX knowledge on here, so basically I made a root directory(/), from there I have /home, /socials, /spells, /classes(not used yet), /help, /races(not used yet). In /home, I have /home/a -> /home/z and then users have their directories under the appropriate directory(ie: /home/s/soth) where they can create rooms, mobiles, objects, etc if they're a builder. I have the basics for permissions, minus execution rights, so it's drwrwrw instead. I have a handful of the typical UNIX basic commands(ls, cd, cp, mv, rm, mkdir, rmdir, touch, uptime, pwd, date, umask, etc etc). It's still very much work in progress. Everything works pretty well, except 'ls' is a bit slow in directories with 200+ files, but that can be resolved I think. As far as the speed issue. I think a lot of it has to do with the way I'm trying to handle mobile movements. That's why I'm going to look at ColdHell so I can try to get a different view on it all. I'm in the process of moving 2 apartments(mine and fiance) into 1 large apartment. Once my system is back up, I'll have more time to look at ColdHell and try to get my stuff moving forward, and if people are curious to see my stuff or even help, they're welcome to. I have been writing this on my own for a couple years and would love some help if someone is interested. Adam --- Frank Crowell wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adam Cormany" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:43 PM > Subject: Re: [Coldstuff] ColdHell > > > > I would love to see ColdHells code as well! I > > currently have my own version of Cold/Genesis that > I > > have been working on for 2 or 3 years now, making > my > > own version of MUD, online builder, etc. I have > all > > the prototypes finished and an internal > directory/file > > structure. My Cold basically looks like a > ColdUNIX:) > > Is that like the MudOS/Lima internal file system? > The LPmuds had an > interesting way of working with files that included > the ability to > dynamically load various files and unload them. You > could also cd into the > world directory and goto the file which of course > resulted in the room being > loaded. > > > > My one huge setback I've been having is fighting > and > > mobile movement, and I would love to see ColdHell > to > > get another point of view for coding it. The way > I'm > > currently doing it, it is way too slow and if I > load > > 1000 mobiles, the system basically hangs from so > much > > lag from operations. > > > > I am not clear on what it would take to handle a > heavily populated, animated > world. I saw the death of Gods Net (if I remember > the name correctly) on > LambdaMOO die because it was too much for the > server. Even LPMuds started > to show signs of poor performance when they had mobs > that did too much. > Dikus probably did a little better because there was > no interpeted coded. > > At some point maybe this becames a server issue and > not a database issue. > > frank > > _______________________________________________ > Cold-Coldstuff mailing list > Cold-Coldstuff@cold.org > http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com From coldstuff@cold.org Thu Jul 18 17:51:52 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (coldstuff@cold.org) Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:51:52 -0500 Subject: [Coldstuff] Get 4 objects w/methods from corrupt database? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --openmail-part-009503db-00000002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline ;Creation-Date="Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:37:25 -0500" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Brad! Sorry if my original question seemed a bit vague... I'll answer ea= ch question in turn: > Questions: >=20 > 1) how are you backing up your database? I have been using the standard method of backups, which seems very= comprehensive indeed! There are literally hundreds of backup tars in my directory from the past year or more, BUT whenever I try to restore from= them they are corrupt and do not work. I explode them in the correct director= y, they have a file size that looks logical, their permissions are fine. I get t= he standard error about the database being corrupt and that it is aborting.= If I shut down the core and copy the index and objects files I can= use THOSE as backups. I can also do the textdumping with successful recompil= e. But manual processes are not reliable considering my memory is crap.=20 > 2) what's causing your corruption? The server went down cold, I don't know why yet. I plan on hunting= down and interrogating my sysadmin this weekend... I want answers or BLOOD! *= grin* Otherwise the core has been incredibly stable and sound. > 3) more details that you can give me/us? Ummm... I run RedHat. The server is usually stable and I have plen= ty of disk space and memory to play with. I'm not doing anything wild or out o= f the ordinary with the code, just building/programming within the core. I attempted to find the clean file that was mentioned as well, but= no love there either. It didn't exist. All I'm stuck with is useless corrupt bac= kups, that's why I was wondering if I could somehow get those objects out of t= hem. THANKS! =2D Andy/Grim > On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 Andy_Croft@npd.com wrote: >=20 > > Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:32:15 -0500 > > From: Andy_Croft@npd.com > > Reply-To: coldstuff@cold.org > > To: cold-coldstuff@cold.org > > Subject: [Coldstuff] Get 4 objects w/methods from corrupt database? > > > > Hey All, > > I've had the misfortune of yet another database corruption. I > > REALLY don't want to restart from scratch again, all I need from the= old > > corrupt database are four measily objects and their methods. > > > > I've tried textdumping it, tried restoring backups... no dice.= No > > matter what I try the database is corrupted. > > > > Is there any way I can get that data, those four little object= s, > > from the corrupt database? > > > > THANKS! > > - Grim/Andy=20 --openmail-part-009503db-00000002 Content-Type: application/rtf Content-Disposition: attachment ;Creation-Date="Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:37:25 -0500" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 e1xydGYxXGFuc2lcZGVmZjB7XGZvbnR0Ymx7XGYwXGZyb21hbiBUbXMgUm1uO317XGYxXGZy b21hbiBDb3VyaWVyIE5ldzt9fXtcY29sb3J0YmxccmVkMFxncmVlbjBcYmx1ZTA7XHJlZDBc Z3JlZW4wXGJsdWUyNTU7XHJlZDBcZ3JlZW4yNTVcYmx1ZTI1NTtccmVkMFxncmVlbjI1NVxi bHVlMDtccmVkMjU1XGdyZWVuMFxibHVlMjU1O1xyZWQyNTVcZ3JlZW4wXGJsdWUwO1xyZWQy NTVcZ3JlZW4yNTVcYmx1ZTA7XHJlZDI1NVxncmVlbjI1NVxibHVlMjU1O1xyZWQwXGdyZWVu 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In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --openmail-part-009503db-00000002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline ;Creation-Date="Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:37:25 -0500" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Brad! Sorry if my original question seemed a bit vague... I'll answer ea= ch question in turn: > Questions: >=20 > 1) how are you backing up your database? I have been using the standard method of backups, which seems very= comprehensive indeed! There are literally hundreds of backup tars in my directory from the past year or more, BUT whenever I try to restore from= them they are corrupt and do not work. I explode them in the correct director= y, they have a file size that looks logical, their permissions are fine. I get t= he standard error about the database being corrupt and that it is aborting.= If I shut down the core and copy the index and objects files I can= use THOSE as backups. I can also do the textdumping with successful recompil= e. But manual processes are not reliable considering my memory is crap.=20 > 2) what's causing your corruption? The server went down cold, I don't know why yet. I plan on hunting= down and interrogating my sysadmin this weekend... I want answers or BLOOD! *= grin* Otherwise the core has been incredibly stable and sound. > 3) more details that you can give me/us? Ummm... I run RedHat. The server is usually stable and I have plen= ty of disk space and memory to play with. I'm not doing anything wild or out o= f the ordinary with the code, just building/programming within the core. I attempted to find the clean file that was mentioned as well, but= no love there either. It didn't exist. All I'm stuck with is useless corrupt bac= kups, that's why I was wondering if I could somehow get those objects out of t= hem. THANKS! =2D Andy/Grim > On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 Andy_Croft@npd.com wrote: >=20 > > Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:32:15 -0500 > > From: Andy_Croft@npd.com > > Reply-To: coldstuff@cold.org > > To: cold-coldstuff@cold.org > > Subject: [Coldstuff] Get 4 objects w/methods from corrupt database? > > > > Hey All, > > I've had the misfortune of yet another database corruption. I > > REALLY don't want to restart from scratch again, all I need from the= old > > corrupt database are four measily objects and their methods. > > > > I've tried textdumping it, tried restoring backups... no dice.= No > > matter what I try the database is corrupted. > > > > Is there any way I can get that data, those four little object= s, > > from the corrupt database? > > > > THANKS! > > - Grim/Andy=20 --openmail-part-009503db-00000002 Content-Type: application/rtf Content-Disposition: attachment ;Creation-Date="Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:37:25 -0500" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 e1xydGYxXGFuc2lcZGVmZjB7XGZvbnR0Ymx7XGYwXGZyb21hbiBUbXMgUm1uO317XGYxXGZy b21hbiBDb3VyaWVyIE5ldzt9fXtcY29sb3J0YmxccmVkMFxncmVlbjBcYmx1ZTA7XHJlZDBc Z3JlZW4wXGJsdWUyNTU7XHJlZDBcZ3JlZW4yNTVcYmx1ZTI1NTtccmVkMFxncmVlbjI1NVxi bHVlMDtccmVkMjU1XGdyZWVuMFxibHVlMjU1O1xyZWQyNTVcZ3JlZW4wXGJsdWUwO1xyZWQy NTVcZ3JlZW4yNTVcYmx1ZTA7XHJlZDI1NVxncmVlbjI1NVxibHVlMjU1O1xyZWQwXGdyZWVu 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Message-ID: <20020718122747.23300.h004.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> CD into your MUD's directory and type this: ./coldcc -t /dev/null -b getclean cp getclean/.clean binary rm -rf getclean ./coldcc -d -# -b binary -t textdump.crash This will create a blank database with a valid .clean file, which you can use to trick coldcc into thinking your corrupt DB is ok. It may not decompile perfectly, but you'll at least have your textdump.crash. - Kipp On Thu, 18 July 2002, Andy_Croft@npd.com wrote > > Hey Brad! > > Sorry if my original question seemed a bit vague... I'll answer each > question in turn: > > > Questions: > > > > 1) how are you backing up your database? > I have been using the standard method of backups, which seems very > comprehensive indeed! There are literally hundreds of backup tars in my > directory from the past year or more, BUT whenever I try to restore from them > they are corrupt and do not work. I explode them in the correct directory, they > have a file size that looks logical, their permissions are fine. I get the > standard error about the database being corrupt and that it is aborting. > > If I shut down the core and copy the index and objects files I can use > THOSE as backups. I can also do the textdumping with successful recompile. But > manual processes are not reliable considering my memory is crap. > > > 2) what's causing your corruption? > The server went down cold, I don't know why yet. I plan on hunting down > and interrogating my sysadmin this weekend... I want answers or BLOOD! *grin* > Otherwise the core has been incredibly stable and sound. > > > 3) more details that you can give me/us? > Ummm... I run RedHat. The server is usually stable and I have plenty of > disk space and memory to play with. I'm not doing anything wild or out of the > ordinary with the code, just building/programming within the core. > > > I attempted to find the clean file that was mentioned as well, but no love > there either. It didn't exist. All I'm stuck with is useless corrupt backups, > that's why I was wondering if I could somehow get those objects out of them. > > THANKS! > - Andy/Grim > > > > On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 Andy_Croft@npd.com wrote: > > > > > Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:32:15 -0500 > > > From: Andy_Croft@npd.com > > > Reply-To: coldstuff@cold.org > > > To: cold-coldstuff@cold.org > > > Subject: [Coldstuff] Get 4 objects w/methods from corrupt database? > > > > > > Hey All, > > > I've had the misfortune of yet another database corruption. I > > > REALLY don't want to restart from scratch again, all I need from the old > > > corrupt database are four measily objects and their methods. > > > > > > I've tried textdumping it, tried restoring backups... no dice. No > > > matter what I try the database is corrupted. > > > > > > Is there any way I can get that data, those four little objects, > > > from the corrupt database? > > > > > > THANKS! > > > - Grim/Andy From coldstuff@cold.org Thu Jul 18 20:43:03 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Frank Crowell) Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:43:03 -0700 Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell References: Message-ID: <005001c22e93$56091060$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> Now back to the original question: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon A. Lambert" To: "Coldstuff@Cold. Org" Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 11:10 PM Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell > Does anyone know what the license restrictions are on the > ColdHell database? > Very likely it will be going Open Source soon. I am willing to pull the pieces together and prepare ColdHell for archiving at cold.org, however I am just a volunteer at this point. People have to tell me what they want and I will help make it happen. > Anyways I've run into a few people who've expressed an interest > in "Cold things" and want to tell them whether they'd be wasting > their time with this or not. They aren't commercial people > either, but still. Anyone have any info on it? Docs? Slides? > Comments? Forensics? blah blah? I am sure that ColdHell will be "as-is" and right now there doesn't seem to be any plans for further development. I have some notes on how to build things in ColdHell -- but it may take me a long time to find them. I have working versions of ColdHell, but I don't know if the one at cold.org matches the ones that I have. One option is that ColdHell will be updated with the Open Source license and credits and then just archived. Or I may look at it again and create a branch at SourceForge. frank From coldstuff@cold.org Thu Jul 18 20:45:34 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Frank Crowell) Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:45:34 -0700 Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell References: <20020717120827.26741.h010.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> <006001c22dd3$2a867740$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> <200207180630.54375.bradleyr41@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <005701c22e93$af8b3000$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Bradley" To: Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 5:30 AM Subject: Re: [Coldstuff] ColdHell >Hmm, it should compile. There is a slight chance it may be in dos format, in >which case the carriage returns will need to be removed (utility called >dos2unix works pretty good). Anyways, I'll check it out when I get home from >work tonight. Actually my attempts have all been with MS Windows and VC++ 6.0 compiler. Some of it compiles but I have had to do a lot of hand editing to get past the errors and I finally just gave up figuring that eventually someone will come up with a cleaner way to compile it. From coldstuff@cold.org Fri Jul 19 00:04:38 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Robert Bradley) Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:04:38 -0600 Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell In-Reply-To: <005701c22e93$af8b3000$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> References: <20020717120827.26741.h010.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> <200207180630.54375.bradleyr41@adelphia.net> <005701c22e93$af8b3000$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> Message-ID: <200207181704.38358.bradleyr41@adelphia.net> On Thursday 18 July 2002 01:45 pm, Frank Crowell wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Bradley" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 5:30 AM > Subject: Re: [Coldstuff] ColdHell > > >Hmm, it should compile. There is a slight chance it may be in dos for= mat, > > in > > >which case the carriage returns will need to be removed (utility calle= d > >dos2unix works pretty good). Anyways, I'll check it out when I get ho= me > > from > > >work tonight. > > Actually my attempts have all been with MS Windows and VC++ 6.0 compile= r. > Some of it compiles but I have had to do a lot of hand editing to get p= ast > the errors and I finally just gave up figuring that eventually someone = will > come up with a cleaner way to compile it. Are you sure your not refering to the coldc driver here, and not the cold= hell=20 core? Rob > > _______________________________________________ > Cold-Coldstuff mailing list > Cold-Coldstuff@cold.org > http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff From coldstuff@cold.org Fri Jul 19 00:30:24 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Jon A. Lambert) Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 19:30:24 -0400 Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell Message-ID: > Robert Bradley > On Thursday 18 July 2002 01:45 pm, Frank Crowell wrote: > > > Actually my attempts have all been with MS Windows and VC++ 6.0 compiler. > > Some of it compiles but I have had to do a lot of hand editing to get past > > the errors and I finally just gave up figuring that eventually someone will > > come up with a cleaner way to compile it. > > Are you sure your not refering to the coldc driver here, and not the coldhell > core? > I'm pretty sure he's referring to the Pueblo Client. MushClient has some Pueblo support. -- --* Jon A. Lambert - TychoMUD Email:jlsysinc@alltel.net *-- --* Mud Server Developer's Page *-- --* If I had known it was harmless, I would have killed it myself.*-- -- --* Jon A. Lambert - TychoMUD Email:jlsysinc@alltel.net *-- --* Mud Server Developer's Page *-- --* If I had known it was harmless, I would have killed it myself.*-- From coldstuff@cold.org Fri Jul 19 01:23:18 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Frank Crowell) Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:23:18 -0700 Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell References: Message-ID: <00b001c22eba$7befc0e0$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon A. Lambert" To: Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 4:30 PM Subject: RE: [Coldstuff] ColdHell > > Robert Bradley > > On Thursday 18 July 2002 01:45 pm, Frank Crowell wrote: > > > > > Actually my attempts have all been with MS Windows and VC++ 6.0 compiler. > > > Some of it compiles but I have had to do a lot of hand editing to get past > > > the errors and I finally just gave up figuring that eventually someone will > > > come up with a cleaner way to compile it. > > > > Are you sure your not refering to the coldc driver here, and not the coldhell > > core? > > > > I'm pretty sure he's referring to the Pueblo Client. > MushClient has some Pueblo support. Yes, I am referring to Pueblo itself. I snagged it when the source was first released and ran into the horrendous compile problems. Then later I snagged it again and still had the same problems. I also sent email to the contact person and never got a response. I think I also posted somewhere that I was having the problem and didn't get a response either. I still have it on my drive, but as I said this time I am waiting for someone that is more clever than I am to get a version that will compile with VC++. frank > From coldstuff@cold.org Fri Jul 19 07:03:06 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (coldstuff@cold.org) Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:03:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell Message-ID: <20020718230307.29228.h004.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> http://pueblo.sourceforge.net Already compiled. Fewer bugs. - Kipp On Thu, 18 July 2002, "Frank Crowell" wrote > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jon A. Lambert" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 4:30 PM > Subject: RE: [Coldstuff] ColdHell > > > > > Robert Bradley > > > On Thursday 18 July 2002 01:45 pm, Frank Crowell wrote: > > > > > > > Actually my attempts have all been with MS Windows and VC++ 6.0 > compiler. > > > > Some of it compiles but I have had to do a lot of hand editing to get > past > > > > the errors and I finally just gave up figuring that eventually someone > will > > > > come up with a cleaner way to compile it. > > > > > > Are you sure your not refering to the coldc driver here, and not the > coldhell > > > core? > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure he's referring to the Pueblo Client. > > MushClient has some Pueblo support. > > Yes, I am referring to Pueblo itself. I snagged it when the source was > first released and ran into the horrendous compile problems. Then later I > snagged it again and still had the same problems. I also sent email to the > contact person and never got a response. I think I also posted somewhere > that I was having the problem and didn't get a response either. > > I still have it on my drive, but as I said this time I am waiting for > someone that is more clever than I am to get a version that will compile > with VC++. > > frank > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cold-Coldstuff mailing list > Cold-Coldstuff@cold.org > http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff From coldstuff@cold.org Fri Jul 19 07:49:07 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Frank Crowell) Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:49:07 -0700 Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell References: <20020718230307.29228.h004.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <001001c22ef0$62371140$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [Coldstuff] ColdHell > http://pueblo.sourceforge.net > > Already compiled. Fewer bugs. > > - Kipp > Well that can be good news for most users since there is a chance for Pueblo client support. It's probably not that big of deal that they have removed VRML support because that was a area that the client needed to be updated: it supported 1.0 and not 2.0 or the 3Dweb stuff. A hint on why I was having difficulty when I tried to compile the original Pueblo is this note from the Pueblo/UE project: "Note that the Pueblo/UE source hasn't been published yet, since after a year or so of tweaking it's really messy. I'll try to get that out as fast as possible (though if you absolutely positively can't wait, it's available on request; this is open source after all). In the meantime, here is a link to a page at MOO Canada where you can download the binary version of the original Pueblo 2.01 as well as the Pueblo 2.02 source code. Though be warned, the code is really old - hence all that tweaking!" It sounds like it was a good thing that the source wouldn't compile for me. frank From coldstuff@cold.org Mon Jul 22 16:19:25 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Adam Cormany) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coldstuff] explode_quoted Message-ID: <20020722151925.66243.qmail@web12802.mail.yahoo.com> Is there an explode_quoted that I can use on single quotes? For Example, I'd like to explode: this is 'a test' instead of this is "a test". __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com From coldstuff@cold.org Mon Jul 22 17:03:24 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Robert Bradley) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:03:24 -0600 Subject: [Coldstuff] explode_quoted In-Reply-To: <20020722151925.66243.qmail@web12802.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020722151925.66243.qmail@web12802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200207221003.24760.bradleyr41@adelphia.net> All you really have to do is edit $string.explode_quoted to do what you w= ant. =20 It's not that difficult, just change occurances of \" to ' and it should=20 work, though I suggest naming the method something else to keep the=20 functionality of the original (ie .explode_single_quote()). Rob On Monday 22 July 2002 09:19 am, Adam Cormany wrote: > Is there an explode_quoted that I can use on single > quotes? For Example, I'd like to explode: this is 'a > test' instead of this is "a test". > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Cold-Coldstuff mailing list > Cold-Coldstuff@cold.org > http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff From coldstuff@cold.org Thu Jul 18 07:14:11 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (klaus schilling) Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:14:11 +0200 Subject: [Coldstuff] ColdHell In-Reply-To: <008201c22ddc$395dd160$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> References: <20020717091745.25239.h010.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> <001501c22db5$fe97ffe0$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> <15669.47923.391505.673951@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <008201c22ddc$395dd160$0501a8c0@ramphome.com> Message-ID: <15670.23731.567773.541631@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Frank Crowell writes: > > I always get confused on "turn-based". Is that when one side makes all the > moves, then the other side makes all the moves, then everything happens in > one round? Yes, it is in a blocking style, having to wait until each party has submitted its commands for this turn, then processing them, blocking new commands until the processing is completed ... not feasible for massive multiplayer situations, of course. The first Might&Magic Games e.g. worked in a similar way. Klaus Schilling From coldstuff@cold.org Thu Jul 18 07:04:39 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (klaus schilling) Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:04:39 +0200 Subject: [Coldstuff] Re: Bytecoded language speed In-Reply-To: <20020717171225.13039.h003.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> References: <20020717171225.13039.h003.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <15670.23159.411098.474063@gargle.gargle.HOWL> michael@mudge.com writes: > On Wed, 17 July 2002, "Frank Crowell" wrote > > > I am not clear on what it would take to handle a heavily populated, animated > > world. I saw the death of Gods Net (if I remember the name correctly) on > > LambdaMOO die because it was too much for the server. Even LPMuds started > > to show signs of poor performance when they had mobs that did too much. > > Dikus probably did a little better because there was no interpeted coded. > > > > At some point maybe this becames a server issue and not a database issue. > > Much of the problem here is that bytecode MUDs are very easy to code on, and > they're very fast before people start logging on. Everyone gets so wrapped up > with writing cool code quickly, nobody pays attention to speed. However, I do > think that bytecode MUDs can run efficiently if speed is kept in mind from the > start. > > ColdC incorporates data types and programming structures that would be a major > bi*ch to implement in languages such as C, making C programmers much less > likely to use these optimized methods. With things like dictionaries being so > easy to implement in ColdC, a speed-conscious programmer can easily make code > that is actually faster because it is easier to "do it right". What about perl and python? They have dictionary-like stuff, too. (if perl's hashtables qualify as dictionaries). But there;s no way to decompile there bytecode, this would make it necessary to save code in ascii format and 'eval' or 'exec' every time it's needed, making it almost worse than using purely interpreted languages like guile. The disadvantage of C is that it requires to shut down and restart the server for every little changement in code. Diku builders may only fill in templates with new strings and integers, but not add or modify any function at runtime, making dikus downright boring. Klaus Schilling From coldstuff@cold.org Fri Jul 19 07:40:13 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (klaus schilling) Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:40:13 +0200 Subject: [Coldstuff] stdio Message-ID: <15671.46157.455266.675041@gargle.gargle.HOWL> What are the coldc primitives to read from and write to stdin/out? it's nowhere documented in the coldc manual, as far as i looked (it's pretty incomplete by now) Klaus Schilling From coldstuff@cold.org Tue Jul 23 18:49:30 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Jeremy Weatherford) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coldstuff] stdio In-Reply-To: <15671.46157.455266.675041@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: I was under the impression that there aren't any, since the IO stuff is either socket based, or looks for actual files on the filesystem. There's dblog() for output. Genesis closes stdin unless you're logging to it, though. Jeremy Weatherford xidus@xidus.net http://xidus.net On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, klaus schilling wrote: > > > What are the coldc primitives to read from and write to stdin/out? > it's nowhere documented in the coldc manual, as far as i looked > (it's pretty incomplete by now) > > Klaus Schilling > _______________________________________________ > Cold-Coldstuff mailing list > Cold-Coldstuff@cold.org > http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff > From coldstuff@cold.org Tue Jul 23 19:07:44 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Brandon Gillespie) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:07:44 -0600 Subject: [Coldstuff] stdio References: Message-ID: <3D3D9B70.5070500@roguetrader.com> Jeremy Weatherford wrote: > I was under the impression that there aren't any, since the IO stuff is > either socket based, or looks for actual files on the filesystem. There's > dblog() for output. Genesis closes stdin unless you're logging to it, > though. This is correct; ColdC is meant for a server-based language. There is no ability to do a read from stdin and the only way to put anything on stdout/err is through dblog. This is intentional, because it is a server there is no 'standard' input or output. Just sockets and files. -Brandon From coldstuff@cold.org Tue Jul 23 19:07:44 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Brandon Gillespie) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:07:44 -0600 Subject: [Coldstuff] stdio References: Message-ID: <3D3D9B70.5070500@roguetrader.com> Jeremy Weatherford wrote: > I was under the impression that there aren't any, since the IO stuff is > either socket based, or looks for actual files on the filesystem. There's > dblog() for output. Genesis closes stdin unless you're logging to it, > though. This is correct; ColdC is meant for a server-based language. There is no ability to do a read from stdin and the only way to put anything on stdout/err is through dblog. This is intentional, because it is a server there is no 'standard' input or output. Just sockets and files. -Brandon From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 24 00:13:26 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Mike O'Brien) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:13:26 -0700 Subject: [Coldstuff] Re: Bytecoded language speed Message-ID: <200207232313.g6NNDQv18322@rushe.aero.org> Someone said: > > I saw the death of Gods Net (if I remember the name correctly) on > > LambdaMOO die because it was too much for the server. To set the record straight, I saw a posting from one of the admins who said that the GodNet was shut down because it became too much for the admins. They wanted a life back. The GodNet was indeed a remarkable achievement, too little noted or remembered today. A friend of mine said it was the only MUD she ever played on which she remembered not as a game, but as a place she used to visit. From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 24 00:45:30 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Mike O'Brien) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:45:30 -0700 Subject: [Coldstuff] Re: Bytecoded language speed Message-ID: <200207232345.g6NNjUv20943@rushe.aero.org> Someone said: > > I saw the death of Gods Net (if I remember the name correctly) on > > LambdaMOO die because it was too much for the server. To set the record straight, I saw a posting from one of the admins who said that the GodNet was shut down because it became too much for the admins. They wanted a life back. The GodNet was indeed a remarkable achievement, too little noted or remembered today. A friend of mine said it was the only MUD she ever played on which she remembered not as a game, but as a place she used to visit. From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 24 15:56:01 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Jeremy Lowery) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:56:01 -0500 Subject: [Coldstuff] suspending tasks Message-ID: <000401c23322$3a5440e0$0501a8c0@jlowery> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C232F8.517E38E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I've written a web server that runs on genesis and when a client downloads a file from the server, the entire server stops responding until the file is downloaded. I do not know a lot about tasks and execution stacks in Cold, but would there be a way to preempt the execution to allow other requests some CPU time? Thanks, J S Lowery ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C232F8.517E38E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

 

I’ve written a web server that runs on genesis = and when a client downloads a file from the server, the entire server stops responding until the file is downloaded. I do not know a lot about tasks = and execution stacks in Cold, but would there be a way to preempt the = execution to allow other requests some CPU time?

 

Thanks,

J S Lowery

 

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C232F8.517E38E0-- From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 24 16:37:35 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (coldstuff@cold.org) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:37:35 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Coldstuff] Re: Bytecoded language speed In-Reply-To: <200207232313.g6NNDQv18322@rushe.aero.org> Message-ID: I had the data dump for it for quite some time and handed it over to some old admins. It runs much better on a P500 with half a gig of ram than it did on the Sparc 2 with 64 megs :). I havent had much time to see if he is still running it or not. On Tue, 23 Jul 2002, Mike O'Brien wrote: >Someone said: > > > > I saw the death of Gods Net (if I remember the name correctly) on > > > LambdaMOO die because it was too much for the server. > > To set the record straight, I saw a posting from one of the >admins who said that the GodNet was shut down because it became >too much for the admins. They wanted a life back. > > The GodNet was indeed a remarkable achievement, too little >noted or remembered today. A friend of mine said it was the only >MUD she ever played on which she remembered not as a game, but >as a place she used to visit. >_______________________________________________ >Cold-Coldstuff mailing list >Cold-Coldstuff@cold.org >http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff > From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 24 17:12:57 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Bruce Mitchener) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:12:57 -0600 Subject: [Coldstuff] suspending tasks References: <000401c23322$3a5440e0$0501a8c0@jlowery> Message-ID: <3D3ED209.2050202@cubik.org> Jeremy Lowery wrote: > I?ve written a web server that runs on genesis and when a client > downloads a file from the server, the entire server stops responding > until the file is downloaded. I do not know a lot about tasks and > execution stacks in Cold, but would there be a way to preempt the > execution to allow other requests some CPU time? Don't use cwritef() or whatever it was that dumps the file to the connection in one shot. Open the file, read from it, write the data to the network, and loop on that with a pause() in there. You'll have to come up with what you think is a good chunksize to write each iteration through the loop. - Bruce From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 24 17:26:28 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Brandon Gillespie) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:26:28 -0600 Subject: [Coldstuff] suspending tasks References: <000401c23322$3a5440e0$0501a8c0@jlowery> <3D3ED209.2050202@cubik.org> Message-ID: <3D3ED534.1020007@roguetrader.com> On the Cold Dark I added $http_interface.respond_with_file: http://ice.cold.org:1180/bin/method?target=http_interface.respond_with_file() It references $web_file, which i was thinking of using as a cache as well as a file descriptor handler. The cache bit was never implemented. -Brandon From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 24 17:38:35 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (coldstuff@cold.org) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coldstuff] suspending tasks Message-ID: <20020724093837.7100.h009.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> On Wed, 24 July 2002, Bruce Mitchener wrote > Don't use cwritef() or whatever it was that dumps the file to the > connection in one shot. Open the file, read from it, write the data to > the network, and loop on that with a pause() in there. You'll have to > come up with what you think is a good chunksize to write each iteration > through the loop. It's reading the file that's slow, not writing to the connection. (Or, does sending a paragraph to a 300-baud modem cause immense systemwide lag!?) This is all very core-specific, but your code might look something like this: blocksize = 8192; file = $file_system.fopen(filename); while(!file.feof()) { pause(); connection.cwrite(file.fread(blocksize)); } Of course, it would be very nice to have a pause-implied fread() and cwritef(), along with the horrible $network.hostname(). - Kipp From coldstuff@cold.org Wed Jul 24 19:56:06 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Jeremy S Lowery) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:56:06 -0500 Subject: [Coldstuff] suspending tasks In-Reply-To: <20020724180001.24360.47761.Mailman@mojo.cold.org> Message-ID: <000101c23343$c3e11a10$0501a8c0@jlowery> Message: 9 To: coldstuff@cold.org From: michael@mudge.com Subject: Re: [Coldstuff] suspending tasks Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: coldstuff@cold.org On Wed, 24 July 2002, Bruce Mitchener wrote > Don't use cwritef() or whatever it was that dumps the file to the > connection in one shot. Open the file, read from it, write the data to > the network, and loop on that with a pause() in there. You'll have to > come up with what you think is a good chunksize to write each iteration > through the loop. It's reading the file that's slow, not writing to the connection. (Or, does sending a paragraph to a 300-baud modem cause immense systemwide lag!?) This is all very core-specific, but your code might look something like this: blocksize = 8192; file = $file_system.fopen(filename); while(!file.feof()) { pause(); connection.cwrite(file.fread(blocksize)); } Of course, it would be very nice to have a pause-implied fread() and cwritef(), along with the horrible $network.hostname(). - Kipp Thanks a bunch Bruce, Brandon, and Kipp. I've implemented it with a blocksize of 8192 and it seems to be working fine. One other thing I'm planning on doing is implementing multipart/form-data file uploads. I started working with cold-web and have heavily modified it. One of the things that I think might cause a problem is how the default system handles POST requests. len = (| request_headers['CONTENT_LENGTH] |); if ((len == ~keynf) || (!len)) return .die(400, "No Content-Length"); len = toint(len); // what a nightmare: sometimes the input for post will // not be received immediately, so we wait for it. // this won't do... if (buflen(buffer) < len) { reading = 300; while ((buflen(buffer) < len) && --reading) { $sys.sleep(); refresh(); } if (buflen(buffer) < len) { buffer = `[]; return .die(400, "Timeout on receiving POST request."); } } Would this implementation cause problems with slow connections posting larger files? Of course, the main reason I'm asking is because I don't fully understand the $sys.sleep() and refresh() calls on this. Last thing is the buffer/string issue with the posted data. // RFC1867 file uploads support. if(request_headers['CONTENT_TYPE] == "application/x-www-form-urlencoded") { // standard post data body = buf_to_strings(body); if ((body[listlen(body)]) == `[]) body = delete(body, listlen(body)); else body = replace(body, listlen(body), buf_to_str(body[listlen(body)])); for part in (body) request_body = request_body.union(part.break_fields()); } else if(request_headers['CONTENT_TYPE].match_begin("multipart/form-data;")) { // do the file upload thing. // request_body will look something like // #[["txtFirstName", "Jeremy"], // ["filePicture", #[['FILE, "C:\yahoo.gif"], // ['CONTENT_TYPE, "image/gif"], // ['DATA, `[]]] return .die(501, "RFC1867 File Uploads Not Supported"); } Would it be necessary to break off pieces of the buffer and convert them to strings to do the matching for beginning and ends of the parts? Unless I'm missing something, there's going to have to be a lot of string/buffer hackery to get this implemented properly. Thanks again, JS Lowery From coldstuff@cold.org Thu Jul 25 08:37:55 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Jeremy S Lowery) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:37:55 -0500 Subject: [Coldstuff] Frozen-server Preview Message-ID: <000001c233ae$30895d70$0501a8c0@jlowery> I have a currently running demo (kindof) of my coldc web-server Frozen-server. The source code is not in a state to be released yet, but hopefully it might interest some of you. http://macr0.servehttp.com:8080 I did have a brain-storm of the "concept" that frozen-server implements a while back (years back?) on the list, but it seems to have been purged. Peek at the "source code" links on the pages. JS Lowery From coldstuff@cold.org Mon Jul 29 18:13:13 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Adam Cormany) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coldstuff] Removing newline in string Message-ID: <20020729171313.37999.qmail@web12802.mail.yahoo.com> Is there a way to remove a newline(\n) in a string? I want a string that is nonterminating. For example: I want to do x="a";x+="b";x+="c" and have a return of x="abc". Is there an easy way to do this with strfmt or some other function? Thanks, Adam __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com From coldstuff@cold.org Tue Jul 30 03:46:43 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Jonathan) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:46:43 -0700 Subject: [Coldstuff] Cache and "Out of Ticks" Message-ID: <001b01c23773$56f0e5f0$0817000a@jwr2kserver> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C23738.AA1AE220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm going to be upgrading the genesis soon and want to make sure I'm = utilizing the machine the server is on to it's fullest. The default method ticks is 20k. We currently up it to 200k so that we = can do a rehash-all as well as view some of our larger rooms, normally = the janitor's closet until we get a DB link for deleted items. Is there = a recommended setting for that other than the default? I understand = what it does, I just don't want to mess up the genesis side of it. There also is a setting I would like to know what all it is used for... #define NAME_CACHE_SIZE 173 My third and last question for this posting is concerning the cache for = cold when we do the ./configure for it. I have been leaving it at the = default. Now that we have a new server dedicated to the core we want to = make sure it is running at its maximum. What were the defaults = targeting machine wise as in processor and ram? We went from a PIII = 450, 256MB Ram to a P4 750ish with 512MB Ram should I not up the = settings for the cache and recompile it? especialy since the core is = ALL it does. I can SSH into it and use a very strong firewall on it as = well as have it behind my network firewall so nothing but core traffic = goes into it except for when I SSH in. Thanks! Jonathan ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C23738.AA1AE220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm going to be upgrading the genesis = soon and want=20 to make sure I'm utilizing the machine the server is on to it's=20 fullest.
 
The default method ticks is 20k.  = We currently=20 up it to 200k so that we can do a rehash-all as well as view some of our = larger=20 rooms, normally the janitor's closet until we get a DB link for deleted=20 items.  Is there a recommended setting for that other than the=20 default?  I understand what it does, I just don't want to mess up = the=20 genesis side of it.
 
There also is a setting I would like to = know what=20 all it is used for...
 
#define NAME_CACHE_SIZE = 173

My third and last question for this = posting is=20 concerning the cache for cold when we do the ./configure for it.  I = have=20 been leaving it at the default.  Now that we have a new server = dedicated to=20 the core we want to make sure it is running at its maximum.  What = were the=20 defaults targeting machine wise as in processor and ram?  We went = from a=20 PIII 450, 256MB Ram to a P4 750ish with 512MB Ram should I not up the = settings=20 for the cache and recompile it?  especialy since the core is ALL it = does.  I can SSH into it and use a very strong firewall on it as = well as=20 have it behind my network firewall so nothing but core traffic goes into = it=20 except for when I SSH in.
 
Thanks!
 
Jonathan
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C23738.AA1AE220-- From coldstuff@cold.org Tue Jul 30 04:53:29 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Chris Peters) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 23:53:29 -0400 Subject: [Coldstuff] Genesis 1.1.11 for Win32 References: <3D20D22A.9070503@roguetrader.com> Message-ID: <002f01c2377c$ab3058e0$7d01a8c0@spork> Has anyone compiled 1.1.11 to run on a Win32 platform as of yet? ~Chris http://aelas.myip.org/ From coldstuff@cold.org Tue Jul 30 05:03:26 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Jonathan) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:03:26 -0700 Subject: [Coldstuff] Genesis 1.1.11 for Win32 References: <3D20D22A.9070503@roguetrader.com> <002f01c2377c$ab3058e0$7d01a8c0@spork> Message-ID: <002b01c2377e$0ed2acd0$0817000a@jwr2kserver> I haven't recently but I probably will be soon. I'll have to get the complier again but that's not a problem assuming the free borland compiler will work. ;) I'll post when I have one put together, maybe I'll have it done tonight. Jonathan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Peters" To: Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 8:53 PM Subject: [Coldstuff] Genesis 1.1.11 for Win32 > Has anyone compiled 1.1.11 to run on a Win32 platform as of yet? > > ~Chris > http://aelas.myip.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Cold-Coldstuff mailing list > Cold-Coldstuff@cold.org > http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff From coldstuff@cold.org Tue Jul 30 06:26:06 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (coldstuff@cold.org) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:26:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coldstuff] Removing newline in string Message-ID: <20020729222607.17571.h009.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> I don't understand this question very well. The following code will in fact return "abc": var x; x="a";x+="b";x+="c"; return x; The question is, is this what you're really trying to do, or are you trying to send unterminated lines to a connection? Your question asked if there is a way to remove a newline from a string, so the answer to that is: ColdC strings can't contain newlines (buffers can), but you could put a "\n" in a string. str_to_buf() automatically converts that sequence into a line terminator (CRLF) (strings_to_buf() does not), although, you don't really need to deal with this sort of thing unless you're writing deep core stuff like the login screen. If this is what you're trying to do, the output routines (.tell for ColdCore, I think) is tacking a `[13,10] at the end of the string, after the string's been converted to a buffer. - Kipp On Mon, 29 July 2002, Adam Cormany wrote: > > Is there a way to remove a newline(\n) in a string? I > want a string that is nonterminating. For example: > > I want to do x="a";x+="b";x+="c" and have a return of > x="abc". Is there an easy way to do this with strfmt > or some other function? > > Thanks, > Adam > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Cold-Coldstuff mailing list > Cold-Coldstuff@cold.org > http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff From coldstuff@cold.org Tue Jul 30 07:56:00 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (K Anderson) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:56:00 -0800 Subject: [Coldstuff] $world_time Message-ID: <20020730065600.29192.qmail@kittymail.com> I was looking at the $world_object and am wondering about the following: speedup = 3 what is it speeding up and what does the 3 represent? (I see it being used in .local_time as some sort of multiplier, and I think I tried messing around with it but the results were weird.) time_units returns things like 31536000, "year", "years", "yr", "yrs", 3600, "hour", "hours", "hr", "hrs" what do the numbers represent? is it the number of seconds (or maybe ticks?) in a year or has it been scaled down from some other number that is now representative of how long a Cold year is? can the above time_units be changed to reflect that maybe in the world a hour is some other number? In world_time.daytime it has a line that says t = (((.local_time()) / 3600) + zone) % 24; what is the 3600 for? I notice it matches the same number in time units (see above time_units) If anybody also has any insight as to how the whole world_time thing works it would be greatly appreaciated. In the mean time, I'll plugging away. One of the many things I'm trying to figure out is in $realm.advance_weather there is a thing about last_daytime and new and it always seems that those values are always the same. Here is some information from @status Driver: Genesis 1.1.9-STABLE Core: ColdCore 3.0.1999-08-28 Thanks for your help. As a side note, I put in a marker in the code to tell me if the last_daytime change ever occurs. -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze From coldstuff@cold.org Tue Jul 30 08:07:55 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (K Anderson) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 23:07:55 -0800 Subject: [Coldstuff] $realm.advance_weather Message-ID: <20020730070755.30918.qmail@kittymail.com> I'm not sure but something looks way fishy with this portion of the advance_weather code. new =(d[5].daytime(d[6],d[3].daylength(d[2])))[2]; if (new != last_daytime) { last_daytime = new; .realm_announce(new); } The portion where it says .realm_announce(new) doesn't look quite right. That particular secion is suppose to pull a message out from the $realm object but for some reason it doesn't or it does but it is not producing the messages via the realm announce. What is suppose to happen is that it wonderfully announces to the realm that it is morning, afternoon, evening or night in some sort of message. Has anybody got something different there? Does anybody get the four different messages? I tried to use .get_msg but unless the realm is actually $realm and not a child of $realm then a message could be gotten. But if a realm is something other than $realm then I get a ._get_msg is protected error. If there's a fix let me know. Tried finding something in the archives but no luck. :( I guess if it's out of sight and mind then it's not broke. hehehe. But I certainly would like to see it working. Finally got the weather announcements to work. that was a bugger of a thing. -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze From coldstuff@cold.org Tue Jul 30 13:27:57 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (klaus schilling) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:27:57 +0200 Subject: [Coldstuff] xml-rpc and ftp Message-ID: <15686.34381.50970.208340@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Is it possible to implement xml-rpc and ftp services in coldc? From coldstuff@cold.org Tue Jul 30 15:39:09 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (Adam Cormany) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:39:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coldstuff] Removing newline in string In-Reply-To: <20020729222607.17571.h009.c000.wm@mail.mudge.com.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <20020730143909.79268.qmail@web12806.mail.yahoo.com> Sorry, when I wrote my prior email, I wasn't thinking yet in the morning. Didn't have my morning dose of caffeine yet:) I figured out what I was trying to do. Sorry for the mumbling. --- michael@mudge.com wrote: > I don't understand this question very well. The > following code will in fact > return "abc": > > var x; > x="a";x+="b";x+="c"; > return x; > > The question is, is this what you're really trying > to do, or are you trying to > send unterminated lines to a connection? > > Your question asked if there is a way to remove a > newline from a string, so > the answer to that is: ColdC strings can't contain > newlines (buffers can), but > you could put a "\n" in a string. str_to_buf() > automatically converts that > sequence into a line terminator (CRLF) > (strings_to_buf() does not), although, > you don't really need to deal with this sort of > thing unless you're writing > deep core stuff like the login screen. > > If this is what you're trying to do, the output > routines (.tell for ColdCore, > I think) is tacking a `[13,10] at the end of the > string, after the string's > been converted to a buffer. > > - Kipp > > On Mon, 29 July 2002, Adam Cormany wrote: > > > > > Is there a way to remove a newline(\n) in a > string? I > > want a string that is nonterminating. For example: > > > > I want to do x="a";x+="b";x+="c" and have a return > of > > x="abc". Is there an easy way to do this with > strfmt > > or some other function? > > > > Thanks, > > Adam > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > > href="http://mail.mudge.com//jump/http://health.yahoo.com">http://health.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Cold-Coldstuff mailing list > > Cold-Coldstuff@cold.org > > href="http://mail.mudge.com//jump/http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff">http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff > _______________________________________________ > Cold-Coldstuff mailing list > Cold-Coldstuff@cold.org > http://web.cold.org/mailman/listinfo/cold-coldstuff __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com From coldstuff@cold.org Tue Jul 30 15:49:04 2002 From: coldstuff@cold.org (klaus schilling) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:49:04 +0200 Subject: [Coldstuff] prompt Message-ID: <15686.42848.558864.110148@gargle.gargle.HOWL> how does one have to modify Minimalcore in order to specify a prompt printed on the commandline interface whenever ready for input? writing interactive scripts without prompts seems close to impossible.