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Re: ToDo, or not ToDo.

daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Sun Nov 6 22:56:00 1994 )

Date: Sun, 6 Nov 1994 23:42:57 +0000
From: Jordan Baker <jbb@homer.ncm.com>
To: brandon@avon.declab.usu.edu
Cc: coldstuff@MIT.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9411062255.AA07287@avon.declab.usu.edu>

On Sun, 6 Nov 1994 brandon@avon.declab.usu.edu wrote:

> colinm@colinm.ozemail.com.au (Colin McCormack) writes:
> < In general, I would rather see nothing done to the server, 
> < than see a bunch of ill considered hacks thrown into the server,
> < in the name of I don't know... Progress?  Convenience?
> < Notional improvement?
> Unfortunately (fortunately?), everybody does not share the same position
> as you on what is 'good' for the driver.  While it seems like you have
> some holy vision of how the server should be, others also have opinions.
> Just because you do not like their opinions does not mean they are wrong,
> it means YOU dont like their opinions.  This whole attitude which people
> seem to have in regard to driver development that "my ideas are right,
> because I was touched by God and know the truth, anything you come up
> with is wrong, period, and I don't care what your reasons are" is sheer
> stupidity.

Brandon, this is entirely bullshit.  Colin is expressing a valid concern 
that everyone here has, mainly that the server will get loaded down with 
useless and idiotic changes.
It seems to me that you're just trying to create a flamewar or something.

> Speaking from the experience of administrating the development of NetrekII
> since it's infancy (NetrekII development consists of a team of ~10 developers
> and ~30k lines of client code and ~40k lines of server code) I feel I can
> safely say that EVERYBODY has an opinion in where something is going.  If
> it just happens that 9 out of 10 people on the 'development team' decide
> they like something, IT DOESNT MATTER if you think the change is selling
> the soul of the code, what matters is that you are a minority.  Realize that
> in respect to that change your idea will not find ground.  Deal with it
> and learn to work as a team--your ideas may be holy and touched by God,
> but as far as anybody else is concerned so are their ideas.  Try to give a
> little ground sometime.

It doesn't mean that you'd let some random and his buddies walk in and 
take over your little majority when in fact they really have no idea what 
they're doing.  Don't try to sell democratic development techniques 
because we've already heard it all before.

> As far as Richelieu doing development on the driver, I plan on helping him
> in this endeavor--even IF I do not like some of the changes he may make.  I
> have already taken the 0.10 source filetree (with the test directory and
> documentation) and updated it to 0.12, written a base configure script and
> revamped the makefiles.  (amoung other changes).

0.10 is really a fucked up version.  It has all the substring stuff which 
was really somewhat yicky.  If there is a problem with 0.12 based on 0.11 
(what great version names we're getting now) then please tell me what 
they are so that I can fix them.

> [snip]
> < I trust him not to pollute coldmud with poisoned confectionary 
> < like do {abomination} while {abominable}.
> goto: first and second paragraph
> Most people want this change (infact, you are the only person I know who
> finds it an abomination, most people do not care either way or want it).

I haven't yet decided whether or not I want this change, but I know that 
I will certainly listen to all the arguments for/against it before making 
my decision.

> [snip]
> < All you really need is a place to ftp the latest server(s) from [...]
> Sticky.usu.edu is open to anything (space is readily available there), and
> I have done my best to make distinctions between the different sources,
> documentation, cores, textdumps and other paraphenilia.

homer.ncm.com is where the latest version of 0.12 is available.  Its 
called 0.12 because the previous version was just a beta of it and really 
was not intended for general release.

> < Certainly, also, Chaos and Crag would be a moderating interface
> < between Richelieu and I, to the extent that I might want to
> < make my position/feelings felt on some issues.
> (sigh, feel's pity for Chaos and Crag)

Heh. Mature.

> Colin: please pay attention to headers in a message that indicate the
> difference between a change Richelieu is going to make, and one which he
> is requesting discussion on.
> -Brandon Gillespie (Lynx)-