From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 1 Dec 1994 14:50:43
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To:	Snowfall <Colin.F.McCormick@williams.edu>
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Exits and teleportation 
In-reply-to: Snowfall's message of "Wed, 30 Nov 94 21:43:54 PST"
             <9412010543.AA22274@bigbird> 
Date:	Thu, 1 Dec 1994 14:50:43 -0800
Sender: Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
From:	Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Message-Id: <94Dec1.145050pst.58372@mu.parc.xerox.com>

Snowfall writes:
> We are actually running 1.7.5, and now I feel rather outdated.  Where
> could I find a listing of the improvements between versions?

Every release contains a file named `ChangeLog.txt', showing a description of
all of the changes in all of the releases up to then.

	Pavel

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 1 Dec 1994 18:42:01
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From:	jepler@herbie.unl.edu (Jeff "Obik" Epler)
Message-Id: <9412020242.AA17305@herbie.unl.edu>
Subject: Re: objects in verbs
To:	ebasta@acns.fsu.edu (Beth Basta)
Date:	Thu, 1 Dec 1994 18:42:01 -0800
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-Reply-To: <9412011841.AA06515@acns.fsu.edu> from "Beth Basta" at Dec 1, 94 10:41:34 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 860       

> I have tried:
> 
> ]wear = $string_utils:match_object(dobjstr);
> ]wear = $string_utils:literal_object(dobjstr);
> ]wear = $string_utils:literal_object(args[1]);

Beth,

I don't know if I understand completely what yuo're asking for, but
does

	]wear = dobj;

do anything like you're looking for?

dobj is the direct object matched during command parsing, by number.
So however the server (or #0:do_command, or whatever the new cheese
is) parses the direct object (or the iobj) gets set for you..

In the case of invalid objects, you'll get #-1 or somesuch, I guess.

This is if your verb is of the form:
	<verb> any <adj> this
or
	<verb>  any

Jeff
-- 
____ "And if I smile please tell me some bad news
\BI/  before I laugh and act like a fool"
 \/            -The Who "Behind Blue Eyes"
grep -vi obik       Running Linux 1.1 -- Free Unix for 386+ machines

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 2 Dec 1994 04:44:10
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To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	ebasta@acns.fsu.edu (Beth Basta)
Subject: Re: objects in verbs


>Beth,
>
>I don't know if I understand completely what yuo're asking for, but
>does
>
>        ]wear = dobj;
>
>do anything like you're looking for?


Yes, this is what I needed.  I wasn't thinking clearly and tryed wear = dobjstr;
making it into a string and therefor creating havoc for the rest of my code.

Thanks for all the responses.


Beth


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 2 Dec 1994 04:53:44
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Date:	Fri, 2 Dec 1994 04:53:44 -0800
From:	Jay Campbell <edge@iac.net>
To:	mech@eff.org
cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: URGENT - Participating MOOs
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941202071626.14390A-100000@little-miami.iac.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I apologize for not answering all mail about sites that has come in
personally. We have a rough idea of the number of sites participating in
the event now, which is good, but don't have data we can actually give
users, which is bad.

I'm compiling a final list, which is available by fingering
aerosmith@sensemedia.net. To help me organize, could all MOOs wanting to
participate please fill out the snippet below and send it back to
aerosmith@sensemedia.net. If Ice hasn't dropped an working auditorium in
your existing MOO already, /please/ consider running the template db
we're preparing (more on that below)

>-- 8< --- snip-snip --- 8<

Host MOO (if applicable):
Host MOO address:
Host MOO wizard contact:
Sites & ports you can run a template db:


Email/talk contact address:
An advertisement for your MOO:





Additional comments:


>-- 8< --- snip-snip --- 8<

The reasons for running a template db:

o Less work :) We can install new code (for T-shirt ordering, for instance)
  on a single db, which will be ftp-able up to the last minute, a single time
  and have the changes reflect everywhere. Customizing and updating the code
  on every db involved would take more time than we have.

o Tick saving - we're gutting the template db in an attempt to save memory
  and ticks, so each site can house as many guests as possible. We're 
  expecting numbers in the thousands, so every extra guest counts.

o Worldwide compatibility - problems that crop up will be easier to fix;
  MOO advertisements will be posted at every site; etc

Thanks for your patience. :)

---

Jay Campbell    edge@iac.net            <- finger for PGP public key
============    edge@sensemedia.net        jecampbe@uceng.uc.edu
                peterpan@nevernever.net    butterscotch@pudding.net
sex@asmic.org   tin-man@oz.net             jabberwock@wonder.net


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 2 Dec 1994 05:03:08
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Date:	Fri, 2 Dec 1994 05:03:08 -0800
From:	Jay Campbell <edge@iac.net>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: template db
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941202080105.14413B-100000@little-miami.iac.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Oh.. one other important reason for using the template db: spoofing.

With hundreds of progbits on normal moos, it would be hard for newbies to 
distinguish between spoofs and real text. If everyone besides admin logs 
in as a guest, that's a huge problem noone has to worry about dealing with.

another 0.02

---

Jay Campbell    edge@iac.net            <- finger for PGP public key
============    edge@sensemedia.net        jecampbe@uceng.uc.edu
                peterpan@nevernever.net    butterscotch@pudding.net
sex@asmic.org   tin-man@oz.net             jabberwock@wonder.net

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 2 Dec 1994 09:52:35
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Date:	Fri, 2 Dec 1994 09:52:35 -0800
From:	"Michael C. Mudge" <mcmudge@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Re: objects in verbs
To:	Beth Basta <ebasta@acns.fsu.edu>
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-Reply-To: <9412011841.AA06515@acns.fsu.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9412021220.A26543-0100000@kong.syr.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Use player:my_match_object(objectname)

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 2 Dec 1994 19:02:08
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Date:	Fri, 2 Dec 1994 19:02:08 -0800
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	sle@picosof.com (Samuel Latt Epstein)
Subject: correction. URGENT

please note the following correcting is being propogated regarding the
aerosmith press release.  it contained an inaccurate citation...

-----
The historic Internet event, linking multiple Internet
'MOO' services for the first time and providing the world's largest
virtual realtime conference in history, ...
-----

NOTE: this citation is INCORRECT: it should be changed to reflect that this
is the first time this many number of moos is being linked.  i have
recommended this:

-----
The historic Internet event, linking multiple Interet 'MOO' services into
the world's largest virtual realtime conference in history, ...
-----

MOOS have been connected in various ways for sometimes...

please make sure you forward your MOO and credit information to
aerosmith@sensemedia.net so that you get the exposure you want.

sam



Samuel Latt Epstein
Director, Hypermedia Services
sle@sensemedia.net
-----
The SenseMedia Network - http://sensemedia.net/ - mailto:info@sensemedia.net



From someone 2 Dec 1994 20:20:40
Replied: Tue, 06 Dec 94 14:36:13 -0800
Replied: Gene Quinn <quinn@access.mountain.net>
Replied: moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
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Date:	Fri, 2 Dec 1994 20:20:40 -0800
From:	Gene Quinn <quinn@access.mountain.net>
Message-Id: <199412030420.XAA25759@Access.Mountain.Net>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: PANIC


Dec  2 14:35:33: *** VAR_REF: Impossible var type: 269488144
Dec  2 14:35:33: *** PANIC: FREE_VAR: Impossible var type.

Dec  2 14:35:33: PANIC-DUMPING on db.113.PANIC ...
Dec  2 14:38:11: PANIC-DUMPING on db.113.PANIC finished


Please tell me this isn't necessarily catastrophic.

I'm still running 1.7.7, under BSDI.

I've applied the no-vfork patch, and this _did_ happen when the next
 checkpoint was scheduled.

I just rebooted the DB, and it gave me:

Dec  2 22:11:29: *** READ_VAR: Unknown type (269488144) at DB file pos. 
3351375
Dec  2 22:11:29: *** READ_VAR: Unknown type (269488144) at DB file pos. 
3351400
Dec  2 22:11:29: *** READ_VAR: Unknown type (269488144) at DB file pos. 
3351425

On and on and on, but the DB _did_ load.  Did it correct itself?

please say yes

-Quinn

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 2 Dec 1994 20:38:11
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Date:	Fri, 2 Dec 1994 20:38:11 -0800
From:	Judy Anderson <yduj@cs.stanford.edu>
Subject: PANIC
In-Reply-to: "Gene Quinn's message of Fri, 2 Dec 1994 20:20:40 PST <199412030420.XAA25759@Access.Mountain.Net>"
To:	quinn@access.mountain.net
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412030438.AA19565@Xenon.Stanford.EDU>

Sounds icky.  I translated that number to hex, it is 0x10101010, which
isn't a text string or anything nice like I was actually expecting it
to be.  Sometimes malloc() puts headers on its memory that look like
this (I've not seen this particular tag, but I've seen other patterns
of bits used by mallocs of one vintage or another).  It certainly
doesn't sound good that a malloc header (which it never gives to the
user program---this is usually some bit of memory *before* the user
memory) escaped into your clutches.

I dunno anything about DB format, but I'd try going through the DB
with an editor and replacing that number with 0 and see what happens.
Since it's claiming it's var type.  0 is var type NUM.  (Obviously,
save a copy of the db since it won't be possible to *undo* that
change if it makes things all fukked!)

      Judy Anderson yclept yduJ          'yduJ' rhymes with 'fudge'
 yduJ@cs.stanford.edu (personal mail)   yduJ@harlequin.com (work-related)
	Join the League for Programming Freedom, lpf@uunet.uu.net

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 3 Dec 1994 19:46:09
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To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: news
From:	shaggy@phantom.com (laughing boy)
Comments: soup is good food
Message-Id: <mZiswc1w165w@mindvox.phantom.com>
Date:	Sat, 3 Dec 1994 19:46:09 -0800
Organization: [MindVox] / Phantom Access Technologies / (+1 800-MindVox)

i'm wondering how news works, since it seems undocumented.....
so far, i have gotten it to sort of work by sending mail to news and then 
doing @addnews -- is this the actual correct way to do it?
how do you delete old news?

also, who is hacker and why?

lastly, and i asked this before so pardon me if i missed the answer, is 
@detail not defined in lambdamoo? the mootutor1.txt on ftp.parc.xerox.com 
talks about it, but it doesn't seem to work.......

thanx



sh4g|             
-----		             | Coming, i don't enter by the gate 
  shaggy@phantom.com         | Leaving i don't exit by the door
  shag@gladstone.uoregon.edu | This very body is the land of tranquil light
 

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 4 Dec 1994 05:07:20
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Sun, 4 Dec 1994 13:07:31 +0000
From:	Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Date:	Sun, 4 Dec 1994 05:07:20 -0800
Message-Id: <27122.9412041307@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: PRESS RELEASE: Object Technology in Cyberspace


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Contact: Chris Hand, De Montfort University. Fax +44 116 254-1891. 
e-mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk 

** A Hypertext version of this Press Release is on the World-Wide Web **
**     at http://www.cms.dmu.ac.uk/Research/OTG/Online/pr1.html       **
________________________________________________________________________


OBJECT TECHNOLOGY MOVES INTO CYBERSPACE

Leicester, England -- 28th November 1994. 

De Montfort University's TaTTOO'95 conference to be held in January will
feature the world's first commercial exhibition held in Cyberspace.

A number of companies world-wide have already expressed an interest in
sponsoring a stand in the Virtual Exhibition Hall, where anyone on the
Internet will be able to browse on-line product information and chat in
real time with company representatives.

"This will be just like a `real-life' trade exhibition, but without the
hassles of travelling long distances or struggling through the crowds",
says Chris Hand, organiser of the Virtual Conference. "Exhibitors will
benefit since they won't have to worry about travelling costs or time
away from HQ. In fact, it will be possible for one exhibitor to work on
several stands simultaneously. The potential for events of this kind is
enormous."

Advertising space will be available both in the Virtual Exhibition hall
and on an integrated World-Wide Web server.  Other on-line events planned
to run alongside the real-life conference include a Virtual Press
Conference and Discussion to be chaired by Eric Leach of the Object
Management Group, and tutorials on working within object-oriented
virtual environments. Internet users will be free to mingle on-line with
the TaTTOO'95 delegates and speakers.

Alan O'Callaghan, conference organiser, adds: "With the recent
investments in Object Technology by giants such as IBM, it's now more
important than ever that we bring the message to as many people as
possible. The Virtual Conference will allow us to do this. OT is moving
so quickly now that if you're not on-line to it you could easily miss
the wave."

More details on the on-line events are available from Chris Hand
(e-mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk) and Mark Skipper (mcs@dmu.ac.uk), fax. +44 116
254-1891.  WWW: http://www.cms.dmu.ac.uk/Research/OTG/tattoo-online.html


Background

TaTTOO (Teaching and Training in The Technology of Objects) is an
  international conference which in 1995 will be held in the Queens
  Building, De Montfort University, Leicester on 4-6 January. TaTTOO'95
  follows the highly successful inaugural event in 1994 which was attended
  by 185 delegates from academia and industry in the UK, USA, Sweden,
  France, Holland and Germany.

More information:

  e-mail: tattoo@dmu.ac.uk 
     WWW: http://www.cms.dmu.ac.uk/Research/OTG/tattoo.html

 
De Montfort University is recognised by the World Bank as the fastest
  growing university in Western Europe. A distributed university with
  sites in Leicester, Milton Keynes, Bedford and Lincoln, DMU is
  pioneering the use of Video-Conferencing and Internet services by staff
  and students. The School of Computing Sciences, well-known for its
  expertise in Object Technology, has been operating a World-Wide Web
  server since 1993.



From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 4 Dec 1994 06:45:12
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Date:	Sun, 4 Dec 1994 06:45:12 -0800
From:	Jackie Hamilton <kira@io.com>
Subject: moo www client/slate?
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9412040814.A9243-0100000@pentagon.io.com>


Sorry if this is an often asked question, but... has anyone written an 
in-moo web "client" or something similar, for accessing www pages from 
within the moo?  Kinda like the gopher slate I guess, only for web.

-Jackie Hamilton
kira@io.com


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 4 Dec 1994 09:21:14
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Date:	Sun, 4 Dec 1994 09:21:14 -0800
From:	Jay Campbell <edge@iac.net>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Aerosmith
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941204121220.29918A-100000@little-miami.iac.net>
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The template db should be ftp-able by tonight. I'm going through all the 
responses that came in, so everyone that indicated they have resources 
they can loan the event should be getting mail.

Because of the number of last-minute changes that keep happening, it's 
just not feasible to drop auditoriums in existing MOOs and keep them 
updated. Even with the template db, we'll have a couple different 
versions. Not much hassle, though, since updating just means doing a 
@shutdown, ftp-ing the latest db, and restarting - nothing in the db is 
meant to be permanent anyway.

I'll also post some DECENT instructions tonight :) Sorry for the delays 
on all this. For anyone who hasn't gotten word, the event will happen on 
Thursday, December 7th, from 10-11PM EST. Hope this doesn't get in the 
way of Hell Week studying for finals.

Thanks to everyone who has gone through the trouble of scrouncing 
machines for this. If this goes well, EFF hopes to have a different 
presentation lined up every month - it should go smoother next time, I 
promise :)

If you're interested in running a db to host guests for the even and 
haven't contacted us, no problem, you're not very far behind everyone 
else. Just drop mail to aerosmith@sensemedia.net and we'll add you.

---

Jay Campbell    edge@iac.net            <- finger for PGP public key
============    edge@sensemedia.net        jecampbe@uceng.uc.edu
                peterpan@nevernever.net    butterscotch@pudding.net
sex@asmic.org   tin-man@oz.net             jabberwock@wonder.net

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 4 Dec 1994 11:10:36
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Date:	Sun, 4 Dec 1994 11:10:36 -0800
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From:	Spif <c642011@cclabs.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: moo www client/slate?
In-Reply-to: <Pine.3.89.9412040814.A9243-0100000@pentagon.io.com>
To:	Jackie Hamilton <kira@io.com>
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.941204130911.4127A-100000@sgi18.phlab.missouri.edu>

On Sun, 4 Dec 1994, Jackie Hamilton wrote:

> Sorry if this is an often asked question, but... has anyone written an 
> in-moo web "client" or something similar, for accessing www pages from 
> within the moo?  Kinda like the gopher slate I guess, only for web.

yes - VOU has one, and as a result the not-yet-complete ZooMOO here at 
the University of Missouri has it as well.  I believe either WorldMOO, 
Sprawl, or both may also have some sort of implementation of an http browser.

     Bryan Venable            | c642011@cclabs.missouri.edu
     Student & Lab Assistant  | spif@m-net.arbornet.org
     U of Missouri - Columbia | http://www.phlab.missouri.edu/~c642011
     SGI/Netscape/MOO addict  | Spif on IRC - usually #unix or #root
     net & web surfer         | Spif or Turmandir @ various MOOs

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
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[Geek Code v2.0]: GCS/CM/SS d? h- s+:+ g+ p? !au a18 w++++ v---(!v, v?)
c+++++ UI+++ UA+++ UX++ P+ L 3 N++ K W+ M V---- po Y++ t++ 5 j r G v+ b+ 
D b--- e+ u+(u-) h-- f+ r-- n---- y?

             <insert standard university disclaimer here>


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 4 Dec 1994 11:30:09
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Date:	Sun, 4 Dec 1994 11:30:09 -0800
From:	Andrew Charles Storms <astorms@galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu>
To:	Jay Campbell <edge@iac.net>
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Aerosmith
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941204121220.29918A-100000@little-miami.iac.net>
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On Sun, 4 Dec 1994, Jay Campbell wrote:

> I'll also post some DECENT instructions tonight :) Sorry for the delays 
> on all this. For anyone who hasn't gotten word, the event will happen on 
> Thursday, December 7th, from 10-11PM EST. Hope this doesn't get in the 
> way of Hell Week studying for finals.
> 
   Isn't December 7th a Wednesday?  So is it Dec 7 or Dec 8 ?

--storms

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ANDREW STORMS                    | Visit BayMOO!  |
astorms@galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu   | Janitor, Storms|
Pager: (415) 455-4447 ; (805) 782-1262            |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 4 Dec 1994 21:32:53
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Date:	Sun, 4 Dec 1994 21:32:53 -0800
From:	Scott Brim <swb1@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: moo www client/slate?
To:	Spif <c642011@cclabs.missouri.edu>
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <v02110307ab080b3c24be@[132.236.236.53]>

  >> Sorry if this is an often asked question, but... has anyone written an
  >> in-moo web "client" or something similar, for accessing www pages from
  >> within the moo?  Kinda like the gopher slate I guess, only for web.

Try it the other way around on BioMOO.  As you go through the MOO using
your favorite Web client (and exploring links to, say, movies about
bees which are referenced in properties on posters, etc.), it can drag
your character with it.  You still need to interact with people in the
MOO window.

...Scott


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 4 Dec 1994 22:16:29
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Date:	Sun, 4 Dec 1994 22:16:29 -0800
From:	sle@picosof.com (Samuel Latt Epstein)
Subject: Re: moo www client/slate?
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412050614.AA27302@Sequoia.picosof.com>


>Try it the other way around on BioMOO.  As you go through the MOO using
>your favorite Web client (and exploring links to, say, movies about
>bees which are referenced in properties on posters, etc.), it can drag
>your character with it.  You still need to interact with people in the
>MOO window.
>

ChibaMOO The Sprawl and The World are Webbed MOOs.  ChibaMOO was opened to
the public in may 94.  it supports HTTP on the frontend and embbedded HTML
allowing you to publish web pages (including forms,image maps written in
MOO code) as well as embedding HTML in your MOO objects and rooms including
inline images and audio.  You may browse the MOO with your web client
clicking on exits to move your character, and you can write custom verbs to
support dynamic WWW applications.  Check it out at:
http://woo.sensemedia.net/about

We are currently working to adapt a new WWW/MOO client based on Intelligent
Pad to provide a better client solution of a separate web client and mud
client.

sam

Samuel Latt Epstein
Director, Hypermedia Services
sle@sensemedia.net
-----
The SenseMedia Network - http://sensemedia.net/ - mailto:info@sensemedia.net



From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 4 Dec 1994 22:33:48
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To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: control/escape codes

I have loaded control and escape codes into my MOO (with the perms set so only  
wizards can read/use them), and I'm wondering:

Is there any way to set up a dialog between the MOO and the player's terminal,  
to find out information, like terminal type and size?  I know it must be  
possible, because pico and tinyfugue does it (to an extent - tinyfugue won't  
run if it doesn't recognize your terminal).

Also, how would I find out different codes that I can use and what they do?

Thanks!

Phantom

(Phantom@BayMOO, Meridian, and my own private MOO)

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 4 Dec 1994 23:56:30
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Date:	Sun, 4 Dec 1994 23:56:30 -0800
From:	"Michael C. Mudge" <mcmudge@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Re: control/escape codes
To:	Richard Connamacher <connamr@alleg.edu>
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-Reply-To: <9412050633.AA09420@alleg.EDU>
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>  
> Also, how would I find out different codes that I can use and what they do?
>  


I know there's other ESC MOO people out there so I'm posting this here:

         ESC[#;#H moves cusor to line #, column #
         ESC[#A Moves cursor up # lines
         ESC[#B Moves cursor down # lines
         ESC[#C Moves cursor forward # spaces
         ESC[#D Moves cursor back # spaces
         ESC[#;#R Reports current cursor line & column ???
         ESC[s Saves cursor position for recall later
         ESC[u Return to saved cursor position Erase Functions: 
         ESC[2J Clear screen and home cursor
         ESC[K Clear to end of line Set Graphics Rendition: 
         ESC[#;#;#;#m Set display attributes
         ESC[#;#r Sets the size of the scrolling text.  Example:
                              ESC[3;10r   The text disappears
                                       when it scrolls before
                                       the third line, and it
                                       moves up when a line hits
                                       the 10th line down.

DISPLAY ATTRIBUTES:
             0 for normal display
             1 for bold on
             4 underline (mono only)
             5 blink on
             7 reverse video on
             8 nondisplayed (invisible)
             30 black foreground
             31 red foreground
             32 green foreground
             33 yellow foreground
             34 blue foreground
             35 magenta foreground
             36 cyan foreground
             37 white foreground
             40 black background
             41 red background
             42 green background
             43 yellow background
             44 blue background
             45 magenta background
             46 cyan background
             47 white background


- Kipp

From someone 5 Dec 1994 06:51:28
Replied: Tue, 06 Dec 94 14:42:33 -0800
Replied: -TheGIO- <carbone@dsi.unimi.it>
Replied: moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Return-Path: xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC
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From:	-TheGIO- <carbone@dsi.unimi.it>
Message-Id: <9412051451.AA22383@pluto.sm.dsi.unimi.it>
Subject: Panic Dump?
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Date:	Mon, 5 Dec 1994 06:51:28 -0800
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Is there anyone that knows the reason of this dump?

Dec  3 06:53:33: *** PANIC: Caught signal 10
Dec  3 06:53:34: PANIC-DUMPING on prova37.db.new.PANIC ...
Dec  3 06:56:12: PANIC-DUMPING on prova37.db.new.PANIC finished


Thanx & Greetings


						Giovanni -TheGIO- Carbone


--
Little Italy Wizard. (ipo.tesi.dsi.unimi.it 4444)

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 5 Dec 1994 07:52:13
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To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: control/escape codes

I put some thought to the security problems associated with use of control and  
escape codes on MOOs, and I thought of some suggestions that may help to  
reduce these security risks.

The problem is this - what would happen if the escape character got out of the  
system property (normally read-only so only wizards can use it), and in the  
hands of non-wizard players?  The result would be terrible - ASCII bombs could  
become comonplace on large MOOs (ascii bombs are where someone sends escape  
codes to someone's screen randomly, and cause really strange and sometimes  
fatal effects).

And the escape codes really aren't that difficult for a player to get if the  
wizards aren't extremely careful with them (even if $escape is unreadable).   
If a programmer just gets hold of a string that includes the escape code, that  
player can trim it down to just the escape code (followed by a blank line - so  
the escape code won't 'eat' up the second quote whenever the property is  
@shown).  If this happens, it would be virtually impossible to detect - the  
wizard would have to search through the entire database for that one escape  
character to find it.

Take @paranoid - the setting to record all text and who's responsible.  If a  
wizard #xxx:tell()s an escape code to someone who has @paranoid on, that  
player now has access to the escape code - all that's left to do is copy it  
over to another property and trim it down - wha-la, instant escape character.

Also, using #xxx:notify() isn't secure either - it can easily be rewritten by  
any programmer to find escape codes (say, search it for '[0m' and record the  
entire string to grab the escape character, and there ya go.)

So my suggestion is this:  decide on what codes you want all players to have  
access to, and set up a substitution for it - say, '##esc_' would be the  
substitution for '$esc+"[4m"', the underline code.  Then, make the  
substitution function wiz only and ONLY called from #1:notify, and then ONLY  
pass the result from it directly to the notify() primitive.  And, make the  
substitution verb put the clear-font code ($esc+"[0m") at the end of all  
strings that contain any substitutions - to avoid leaving some text type on  
after the notify() is finished.  That way, the escape character stays in the  
property #0.esc and never leaves.  Wizards might want to use a similar scheme  
for control codes like $beep, unless they want all players to have free access  
to it (although I don't recommend that).

Another suggestion is this - make flags on all players that they can set for  
if they want to recieve escape and/or control codes (or another for if they  
just don't want color codes, but other escape codes are okay).  That way, if  
$beep does get out, the players would have a way to stop any $beep spam from  
reaching them if they so desire.  Or turn off the color if they are working  
from a black+white terminal that interprets all colors as just black.

Any responses/suggestions/additions are more then welcome.

Phantom

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 5 Dec 1994 06:36:14
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Date:	Mon, 5 Dec 1994 06:36:14 -0800
From:	Mike Conlon <mconlon@stat.ufl.edu>
Message-Id: <199412051436.JAA28090@stat>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Calling @dump from within a verb
Content-Length: 523


I'd like to write a "dump-my-stuff" verb that would basically
loop through on'e owned_objects and dump them out. To do this
(simply?) I'd like to call @dump from within the loop.

Reading the programmers manual for lambda core it appears
that I should be able to do this with a construct like

  #59:("@dump")(p,"with","create")

but I get "verb not found"

When I use

  #59:@dump(p,"with","create")

I get a syntax error.

How can I call @dump from with a loop in a verb?

Mike Conlon
MOOville, FL
moo.ucet.ufl.edu 7777

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 5 Dec 1994 00:10:29
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Date:	Mon, 5 Dec 1994 00:10:29 -0800
Sender: c642011@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu
From:	Spif <c642011@cclabs.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: moo www client/slate?
In-Reply-to: <v02110307ab080b3c24be@[132.236.236.53]>
To:	Scott Brim <swb1@cornell.edu>
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.941205021003.2094A-100000@sgi22.phlab.missouri.edu>

On Sun, 4 Dec 1994, Scott Brim wrote:

> Try it the other way around on BioMOO.  As you go through the MOO using
> your favorite Web client (and exploring links to, say, movies about
> bees which are referenced in properties on posters, etc.), it can drag
> your character with it.  You still need to interact with people in the
> MOO window.

the Sprawl and WorldMOO have this setup as well.

     Bryan Venable            | c642011@cclabs.missouri.edu
     Student & Lab Assistant  | spif@m-net.arbornet.org
     U of Missouri - Columbia | http://www.phlab.missouri.edu/~c642011
     SGI/Netscape/MOO addict  | Spif on IRC - usually #unix or #root
     net & web surfer         | Spif or Turmandir @ various MOOs

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.2

mQCNAy6wnqEAAAEEAME9PkURWrnpXROTmJY9K7hAgNNFQbueTbHCokXkCwOXrWm/
fboO0XcSEo6UoamlYOhJIWVy3IIECtndaH+1xMkJTCPRzBDQuPC0AacSCclRmzqf
W0Yg7RR107eMbtZFmvqw5sKRwn1jYoJgIOcY/TAagKfXPuGNSd8ah06Bw6WxAAUR
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LmVkdT4=
=kYsB
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[Geek Code v2.0]: GCS/CM/SS d? h- s+:+ g+ p? !au a18 w++++ v---(!v, v?)
c+++++ UI+++ UA+++ UX++ P+ L 3 N++ K W+ M V---- po Y++ t++ 5 j r G v+ b+ 
D b--- e+ u+(u-) h-- f+ r-- n---- y?

             <insert standard university disclaimer here>


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 5 Dec 1994 06:42:22
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Date:	Mon, 5 Dec 1994 06:42:22 -0800
From:	Cythera Talker Administraton <cythera@gwent.ac.uk>
Subject: Simple questions...
To:	MOO-mailing-list <moo-cows@parc.xerox.com>
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Hello all...

I have such simple and basic questions
about setting up a MOO (which I am in
the process of doing) that I feel embarrassed
to ask them here... I will ask a couple anyway,
but please excuse my lack of knowledge.

Firstly, the function to send an email acknowledgement
of a new player creation doesn't seem to work...

I've changed the address for .maildrop to various
different things, but it still returns "Permission denied"
whenever I try and send a new player their password...

And furthermore, I disabled player creation, but
then upon using make-player to make a new player,
they found they could not actually get in anyway
with connect... was this because the db had not
been updated or am I missing something?

Thanks a lot...

Peter Bates
CytheraMOO (positively embryonic)


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 5 Dec 1994 10:56:37
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From:	jepler@herbie.unl.edu (Jeff "Obik" Epler)
Message-Id: <9412051856.AA01386@herbie.unl.edu>
Subject: Re: Calling @dump from within a verb
To:	mconlon@stat.ufl.edu (Mike Conlon)
Date:	Mon, 5 Dec 1994 10:56:37 -0800
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-Reply-To: <199412051436.JAA28090@stat> from "Mike Conlon" at Dec 5, 94 06:36:14 am
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> [ I want to call @dump from inside code I write ]

Unfortunately you won't be able to do this, as @dump isn't +x.  You may
have to write your own @dump replacement, or @copy it to a +x verb.

Jeff
-- 
____ "And if I smile please tell me some bad news
\BI/  before I laugh and act like a fool"
 \/            -The Who "Behind Blue Eyes"
grep -vi obik       Running Linux 1.1 -- Free Unix for 386+ machines

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 5 Dec 1994 11:26:48
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Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.100)
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To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Simple questions...

>Firstly, the function to send an email acknowledgement
>of a new player creation doesn't seem to work...
>
>I've changed the address for .maildrop to various
>different things, but it still returns "Permission denied"
>whenever I try and send a new player their password...

If you want to allow for outbound network access from inside the MOO (and that  
includes sending email), you have to uncomment one line in the source code for  
the server before it's compiled.  Here's all you have to do:  (and if you got  
rid of the source code once you compiled it, you'll have to get another copy)

Edit the file 'options.h'
Go to the line '/* #define OUTBOUND_NETWORK */'
Erase the '/*' and '*/' at the beginning and end of the line, so it now reads  
'#define OUTBOUND_NETWORK'

Now, recompile the MOO the way you did before.  If still have a copy of the  
source code you used, then just type 'make'.  If you had to get another copy  
of it, then you'll have to reconfugure it. (type 'configure' before you type  
'make' if that's the case)

I hope this helped you. :-)

Phantom

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 5 Dec 1994 12:29:35
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Date:	Mon, 5 Dec 1994 12:29:35 -0800
From:	Erik Ostrom <ostrom@parc.xerox.com>
Subject: Re: moo www client/slate?
In-Reply-to: "Your message of \"Sun, 04 Dec 94 06:45:12 PST.\"
             <Pine.3.89.9412040814.A9243-0100000@pentagon.io.com>\T.T
	M"
To:	Jackie Hamilton <kira@io.com>
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <94Dec5.122952pst.14601@campion.parc.xerox.com>

> Sorry if this is an often asked question, but... has anyone written an =

> in-moo web "client" or something similar, for accessing www pages from =

> within the moo?  Kinda like the gopher slate I guess, only for web.

This seems like a good opportunity to republicize Colman Reilly's efforts=
 to =

bring together people working on various MOO/WWW combinations.  The MOO-W=
WW =

home page is at <http://www.maths.tcd.ie/pub/mud/moo-www/directory.html>;=
 it =

contains a link to a research directory, and instructions for joining the=
 =

mailing list.  (Said list is often silent, but you should feel free to po=
st =

questions or statements or whatever.)

Although the name specifies MOO, other MUD-WWW and related interests are =

welcome.

Disclaimer:  I have nothing much to do with the MOO-WWW list, except for =
an =

interest in the subject and a desire to see more communication about it.

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 5 Dec 1994 13:17:02
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Date:	Mon, 5 Dec 1994 13:17:02 -0800
From:	Jay Campbell <edge@iac.net>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
cc:	eff-moo@eff.org
Subject: Aerosmith Template
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941205160922.11039A-100000@little-miami.iac.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The template is now available - there are still some additions we need to 
make, but please go ahead and set this version up as soon as possible so 
we can iron out any plain network problems we have.

ftp://sensemedia.net/pub/incoming/aerosmith.db

Please set this template up on port 5000 if possible. Local_Admin 
character's password is 'local' - change that as soon as possible :) 
Don't worry about fixing the addresses on $network or creating permanent 
characters for moderators on this db.

As soon as your db is up, drop a note to aerosmith@sensemedia.net. If you 
haven't sent us a blurb for your permanent moo for the ads section that 
guests will browse before & after the event, please send that, too. Lots 
of things won't work on this db, because we've stripped a /lot/ of 
functions to save ticks. Send us any traceback reports, though.

-edge, pulling hair :)

---

Jay Campbell    edge@iac.net            <- finger for PGP public key
============    edge@sensemedia.net        jecampbe@uceng.uc.edu
                peterpan@nevernever.net    butterscotch@pudding.net
sex@asmic.org   tin-man@oz.net             jabberwock@wonder.net

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 5 Dec 1994 15:43:54
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Date:	Mon, 5 Dec 1994 15:43:54 -0800
From:	Jay Campbell <edge@iac.net>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: aerosmith db - OOPS
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yeah, big boo-boo, the local_admin character wasn't wizzed.
my mistake, fixing it now.

ftp://sensemedia.net/pub/incoming/aerosmith.db

sorry bout that

Jay Campbell    edge@iac.net            <- finger for PGP public key
============    edge@sensemedia.net        jecampbe@uceng.uc.edu
                peterpan@nevernever.net    butterscotch@pudding.net
sex@asmic.org   tin-man@oz.net             jabberwock@wonder.net

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 6 Dec 1994 07:24:21
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From:	bmgustav@bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il (Gustavo Glusman)
Subject: regexps
To:	MOO-Cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412061524.AA18380@bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il>

;match("ABCBD","%(.*%)B%(.*%)")
=> {1, 5, {{1, 3}, {5, 5}, ...}, "ABCBD"}

So far, so good.

;rmatch("ABCBD","%(.*%)B%(.*%)")
=> {4, 5, {{4, 3}, {5, 5}, ...}, "ABCBD"}
Substituting into %1 gives "", and into %2 gives "D", naturally.

But I expected this to return:
=> {1, 5, {{1, 1}, {3, 5}, ...}, "ABCBD"}
And I expected %1 to be "A" and %2 to be "CBD".


Was I wrong? (So it seems..)
How would I parse, then, the ABCBD structure into A/B/CBD ?

Keep in mind that this is a simpified example, so patterns like
"%([^B]*%)B%(.*%)" aren't a solution. A, B, C and D represent more
complicated patterns.

One possibility would be to match for "B%(.*%)" and then extract what was
before the B by other means. Any one-step solutions, like what I expected?

-------------------------------------------------------------
Gustavo Glusman               Founder/administrator of BioMOO
-- Gustavo@bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il
-- http://bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il:70/0h/Gustavo/Glusman
-- BioMOO: telnet bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il 8888
           WWW:   http://bioinfo.weizmann.ac.il:8888


From someone 6 Dec 1994 07:31:46
Replied: Tue, 06 Dec 94 14:49:16 -0800
Replied: Jackie Hamilton <kira@io.com>
Replied: MOO-Cows.parc@xerox.com
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Date:	Tue, 6 Dec 1994 07:31:46 -0800
From:	Jackie Hamilton <kira@io.com>
Subject: memory allocation failed
To:	MOO-Cows.parc@xerox.com
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9412060925.B3269-0100000@pentagon.io.com>


Does this error:

Dec  6 04:34:34: CHECKPOINTING on aerosmith.db.new.#1# ...
Dec  6 04:34:49: *** PANIC (in child): memory allocation (size 163840) failed!
Dec  6 04:34:49: *** Child shutting down parent via USR1 signal
Dec  6 04:34:49: SHUTDOWN: shutdown signal received
Dec  6 04:34:49: DUMPING on aerosmith.db.new.#2# ...

...mean that the machine just ran out of memory, or is it something 
else?  The MOO was running fine up until the checkpoint.  And it dumped 
out most of the db on the shutdown, but stopped when it was about 90% 
done, and there was also a core dump (16 meg worth!) in my directory too.

-Jackie Hamilton
kira@io.com


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 6 Dec 1994 10:29:56
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Date:	Tue, 6 Dec 1994 10:29:56 -0800
From:	CytheraMOO Administration <cythera@gwent.ac.uk>
Subject: External mail problem...
To:	MOO-mailing-list <moo-cows@parc.xerox.com>
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Hello all...

Despite help from various parties,
I still receive an internal error
from my MOO when making a new-player
and when using new-password to change
the password of a player and email the result...

Trouble sending mail: 553 sun1.gwent.ac.uk host name configuration error

It does appear that the mail is in
fact sent, but still I get the error
from within the MOO...

Is this a sendmail problem, or 
something I haven't set in the MOO?

My $network.maildrop is set to localhost
(which is sun1.gwent.ac.uk) and I can't
really set anything else to set...

Any ideas?

Thanks...

Peter Bates
CytheraMOO (getting there?)


From someone 6 Dec 1994 13:10:32
Replied: Tue, 06 Dec 94 14:59:35 -0800
Replied: "Timothy C. Brown/Phylon" <tcb@inlink.com>
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Date:	Tue, 6 Dec 1994 13:10:32 -0800
From:	"Timothy C. Brown/Phylon" <tcb@inlink.com>
To:	MOO-Cows Mailing List <MOO-Cows@parc.xerox.com>
Subject: Uh.
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Tue Dec 6 15:06:35 CST 1994: RESTARTED
Dec  6 15:06:35: STARTING: Version 1.7.8p4 of the LambdaMOO server
Dec  6 15:06:35:           (Using BSD/TCP protocol)
Dec  6 15:06:35:           (Task timeouts measured in server CPU seconds.)
Dec  6 15:06:35: LOADING: beta.db
Dec  6 15:06:36: LOADING: Reading 110 objects...
Dec  6 15:06:37: VALIDATING the object hierarchies ...
Dec  6 15:06:37: VALIDATE: Phase 1: Check for invalid objects ...
Dec  6 15:06:37: VALIDATE: Phase 2: Check for cycles ...
Dec  6 15:06:37: VALIDATE: Phase 3: Check for inconsistencies ...
Dec  6 15:06:37: VALIDATING the object hierarchies ... finished.
Dec  6 15:06:37: LOADING: Reading 1467 MOO programs...
Dec  6 15:06:37: *** PARSER: Line 2:  Unknown built-in function: if
Dec  6 15:06:37: *** PARSER: Line 3:  syntax error
Dec  6 15:06:37: *** DB_READ: Unparsable program #0:0, i = 1.
Dec  6 15:06:37: *** Cannot parse database file!


I'm running BSDI 1.1 and made one simple change: in net_mp_selct.c I had 
to put #include <sys/types.h> to get things compiled.  Previously, when I 
didn't, I had problems.

Anyone know what's up with this?


Timothy Brown            | email: phylon@inlink.com, tsoul@trad.tacobell.com
2733 McClay Valley Blvd  | WWW: http://www.inlink.com/users/phylon/homepage.html
St. Peters, MO, 63376    | Inlink Service Rep * Netsurfer * Student * Guru
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inlink Communications: The St. Louis Internet Provider (314-991-LINK for info)
    telnet vulcan.inlink.com > login: guest * PGP Key available by Finger
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 6 Dec 1994 14:42:31
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To:	-TheGIO- <carbone@dsi.unimi.it>
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Panic Dump? 
In-reply-to: -TheGIO-'s message of "Mon, 05 Dec 94 06:51:28 PST"
             <9412051451.AA22383@pluto.sm.dsi.unimi.it> 
Date:	Tue, 6 Dec 1994 14:42:31 -0800
Sender: Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
From:	Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Message-Id: <94Dec6.144235pst.58385@mu.parc.xerox.com>

-TheGIO- writes:
> Is there anyone that knows the reason of this dump?
> 
> Dec  3 06:53:33: *** PANIC: Caught signal 10
> Dec  3 06:53:34: PANIC-DUMPING on prova37.db.new.PANIC ...
> Dec  3 06:56:12: PANIC-DUMPING on prova37.db.new.PANIC finished

Your server got a `bus error' signal, and probably generated a core dump file.
You should be able to use a debugger on that file to find out what the server
was doing when this happened.

If you're not running version 1.7.8p4 of the server, I recommend strongly that
you upgrade to that; there are a number of bugs in earlier versions that could
cause problems like this.

	Pavel

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 6 Dec 1994 14:40:57
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Date:	Tue, 6 Dec 1994 14:40:57 -0800
From:	Jay Campbell <edge@iac.net>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Aerosmith DB
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941206173703.19197A-100000@little-miami.iac.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The db for the event will be available for ftp tonight. I'll send another 
message when we wrap things up and do the dump.

PLEASE update previous versions. When you have the db running, send us 
mail so we can add you to the list.

One point that wasn't clear: the executable needs to be compiled with onc 
enabled so that outbound mail can be sent. You'll have to put the real 
addresses for $network in when you start up, as well as @make-player your 
moderators and a couple other piddly things we'll post later.

The original post was screwed, as someone pointed out - my day of week 
and date of month weren't the same. It's actually Wednesday, December 
7th, from 10-11 PM EST. If you're running a db, please have it up at 
least a few hours ahead of time if possible, and if your normal MOO is 
heavy on resources, consider dropping it for hour of the event.

---

Jay Campbell    edge@iac.net            <- finger for PGP public key
============    edge@sensemedia.net        jecampbe@uceng.uc.edu
                peterpan@nevernever.net    butterscotch@pudding.net
sex@asmic.org   tin-man@oz.net             jabberwock@wonder.net

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 6 Dec 1994 14:49:15
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Date:	Tue, 6 Dec 1994 14:49:15 -0800
From:	Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Subject: Re: memory allocation failed
In-Reply-to: "Jackie Hamilton's message of \"Tue, 06 Dec 94 07:31:46 PST\"
             <Pine.3.89.9412060925.B3269-0100000@pentagon.io.com> -"
To:	Jackie Hamilton <kira@io.com>
cc:	MOO-Cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <94Dec6.150223pst.58386@mu.parc.xerox.com>

Jackie Hamilton writes:
> Does this error:
> 
> Dec  6 04:34:34: CHECKPOINTING on aerosmith.db.new.#1# ...
> Dec  6 04:34:49: *** PANIC (in child): memory allocation (size 163840) failed!
> Dec  6 04:34:49: *** Child shutting down parent via USR1 signal
> Dec  6 04:34:49: SHUTDOWN: shutdown signal received
> Dec  6 04:34:49: DUMPING on aerosmith.db.new.#2# ...
> 
> ...mean that the machine just ran out of memory, or is it something 
> else?

It ran out of swap space.

	Pavel

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 6 Dec 1994 14:36:11
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To:	Gene Quinn <quinn@access.mountain.net>
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: PANIC 
In-reply-to: Gene Quinn's message of "Fri, 02 Dec 94 20:20:40 PST"
             <199412030420.XAA25759@Access.Mountain.Net> 
Date:	Tue, 6 Dec 1994 14:36:11 -0800
Sender: Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
From:	Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Message-Id: <94Dec6.143624pst.58383@mu.parc.xerox.com>

Gene Quinn writes:
> Dec  2 14:35:33: *** VAR_REF: Impossible var type: 269488144
> Dec  2 14:35:33: *** PANIC: FREE_VAR: Impossible var type.
> 
> Dec  2 14:35:33: PANIC-DUMPING on db.113.PANIC ...
> Dec  2 14:38:11: PANIC-DUMPING on db.113.PANIC finished
> 
> Please tell me this isn't necessarily catastrophic.

Um...

> I'm still running 1.7.7, under BSDI.

Tsk.

> Dec  2 22:11:29: *** READ_VAR: Unknown type (269488144) at DB file pos. 
> 3351375
> Dec  2 22:11:29: *** READ_VAR: Unknown type (269488144) at DB file pos. 
> 3351400
> Dec  2 22:11:29: *** READ_VAR: Unknown type (269488144) at DB file pos. 
> 3351425
> 
> On and on and on, but the DB _did_ load.  Did it correct itself?

No, not really.  What it did was to try assuming that the erroneously-typed
value was really the number 0 (zero).  I shudder to think what it might have
done to you, but since it succeeded in completing the read it might actually
have a more-or-less correct DB.  I'd check how far into the DB file the
positions `3351425' and friends are; if it's pretty close to the end, then the
problems might be restricted to queued tasks.

On the other hand, don't you have a checkpoint file from before the panic?  If
not, shame on you for cutting corners!

	Pavel

From xerox.com!MOO-Cows-request.PARC 4 Dec 1994 14:06:32
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Return-Path: DANFORTH@scsud.ctstateu.edu
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Date:	Sun, 4 Dec 1994 14:06:32 -0800
From:	"Isabel L. Danforth" <DANFORTH@scsud.ctstateu.edu>
Subject: Re: moo www client/slate?
To:	moo-cows-request.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <941204170632.20210297@SCSUD.CTSTATEU.EDU>
Resent-To: MOO-Cows@parc.xerox.com
Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 13:42:27 -0800
Resent-Sender: Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Resent-From: Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Resent-Message-Id: <94Dec6.134233pst.58378@mu.parc.xerox.com>

The original gopher like web slate was developed by the folks at EON moo. 
Although some modifications have been made to it in various places, I 
would like to make sure that EON gets credit for this, since the server
it uses is as at their site.

Thank you 
Isabel
====================================================================


On Sun, 4 Dec 1994, Jackie Hamilton wrote:

> Sorry if this is an often asked question, but... has anyone written an 
> in-moo web "client" or something similar, for accessing www pages from 
> within the moo?  Kinda like the gopher slate I guess, only for web.

yes - VOU has one, and as a result the not-yet-complete ZooMOO here at 
the University of Missouri has it as well.  I believe either WorldMOO, 
Sprawl, or both may also have some sort of implementation of an http browser.

     Bryan Venable            | c642011@cclabs.missouri.edu


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 6 Dec 1994 19:51:02
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Date:	Tue, 6 Dec 1994 19:51:02 -0800
From:	Mike Conlon <mconlon@ucet.ufl.edu>
Message-Id: <199412070351.WAA41290@rolfs-gw.ucet.ufl.edu>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Another baby step ...



A few days ago I posted about trying to call @dump from within
another verb. Several folks (I've thanked them individually)
pointed out that @dump needed +x, and since I'm the wizard
here, I was able to correct that.

So the next problem is how do I actually call it? This
is a bit frustrating for me since I have a lot of
programming experience and I didn't expect this to be
quite so inscrutible. I'm trying to write:

@program #6:dump-my-stuff
  for o in (player.owned_objects)
    player:notify(tostr("I am gonna dump ",o));
    #59:"@dump"(o,"with","create");
  endfor

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 6 Dec 1994 20:28:56
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Date:	Tue, 6 Dec 1994 20:28:56 -0800
From:	Judy Anderson <yduj@cs.stanford.edu>
Subject: Another baby step ...
In-Reply-to: "Mike Conlon's message of Tue, 6 Dec 1994 19:51:02 PST <199412070351.WAA41290@rolfs-gw.ucet.ufl.edu>"
To:	mconlon@ucet.ufl.edu
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412070428.AA23463@Xenon.Stanford.EDU>

You might want to look at #85522 on lambdamoo.  It requires wizperms
and won't let you use it, but maybe it will be useful for your
purposes if you are on another moo.  This object was written by Ozy
and hacked on by me on JHM; I ported it to lambdamoo for private
purposes.

      Judy Anderson yclept yduJ          'yduJ' rhymes with 'fudge'
 yduJ@cs.stanford.edu (personal mail)   yduJ@harlequin.com (work-related)
	Join the League for Programming Freedom, lpf@uunet.uu.net

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 6 Dec 1994 21:16:59
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Date:	Tue, 6 Dec 1994 21:16:59 -0800
From:	Jay Campbell <edge@iac.net>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
cc:	eff-moo@eff.org
Subject: Aerosmith DB Ready!
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941207001558.21545A-100000@little-miami.iac.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Hokay, sportsfans...

The final db for the aerosmith gig is ready. Get it from
ftp://sensemedia.net/pub/incoming/aerosmith-new.db

Install on port 5000 if you can, anywhere else if you can't. Your binary 
needs to be compiled with onc enabled in the config.h, or users won't be 
getting their info mail when they log in - Bad Thing (tm). Log in as 
local_admin, password 'local'. Change it right away. @password is wiped, 
so do a:
;player.password=crypt("newpassword")
instead. Poke around $network and get all the addresses right. 
@make-player all the moderators you want - you may have to do a:
;$player_db:load()
to make them loggable, since we made a goof :P Use the @moderator command 
to make them a permanent moderator.

And that's it. Send us some mail nailing down what port you're on. As 
soon as we get it (assuming everyone isn't asleep) we'll add you to the 
list at 'finger aerosmith@sensemedia.net' and bring you up on the network.

I apologize for not answering all the mail that has been flooding in. 
I'll cc this post to everyone who offered a site; hopefully, things will 
start smoothing out on our end. Thanks for your work in getting all this 
together!

---

Jay Campbell    edge@iac.net            <- finger for PGP public key
============    edge@sensemedia.net        jecampbe@uceng.uc.edu
                peterpan@nevernever.net    butterscotch@pudding.net
sex@asmic.org   tin-man@oz.net             jabberwock@wonder.net

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 00:06:49
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 00:06:49 -0800
From:	Gene Quinn <quinn@access.mountain.net>
Message-Id: <199412070806.DAA08476@Access.Mountain.Net>
To:	pavel@parc.xerox.com, quinn@access.mountain.net
Subject: Re: PANIC
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com

:| On the other hand, don't you have a checkpoint file from before
:| the panic?  If not, shame on you for cutting corners!

I do have a checkpoint file from before the panic; I really just wanted
 some re-assurance that I wasn't completely doomed.  I was a bit afraid
 that the roots of the problem were in one of those earlier checkpoints.

It seems to be running OK now, though.

-Quinn

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 05:15:08
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 05:15:08 -0800
From:	CytheraMOO Administration <cythera@gwent.ac.uk>
Subject: External mail problem... 
To:	MOO-mailing-list <moo-cows@parc.xerox.com>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9412071351.A14810-0100000@sun1>
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Hello all...

Despite help from various parties,
I still receive an internal error
from my MOO when making a new-player
and when using new-password to change
the password of a player and email the result...

Trouble sending mail: 553 sun1.gwent.ac.uk host name configuration error

It does appear that the mail is in
fact sent, but still I get the error
from within the MOO...

Is this a sendmail problem, or 
something I haven't set in the MOO?

My $network.maildrop is set to localhost
(which is sun1.gwent.ac.uk) and I can't
really set anything else to set...

Any ideas?

Thanks...

Peter Bates
CytheraMOO (getting there?)



From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 06:33:38
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 06:33:38 -0800
From:	Mike Conlon <mconlon@stat.ufl.edu>
Subject: Re: Another baby step ...
In-Reply-to: <9412070428.AA23463@Xenon.Stanford.EDU>
To:	Judy Anderson <yduj@cs.stanford.edu>
cc:	mconlon@ucet.ufl.edu, moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <199412071433.JAA04758@stat.ufl.edu>

On Tue, 6 Dec 94 20:28:56 -0800  Judy Anderson wrote:
> You might want to look at #85522 on lambdamoo.  It requires wizperms
> and won't let you use it, but maybe it will be useful for your
> purposes if you are on another moo.  This object was written by Ozy
> and hacked on by me on JHM; I ported it to lambdamoo for private
> purposes.

Thanks. I got onto Lambda as a Guest, but it appears I don't
have enough permissions to see code. I tried @dump, @list,
and @chparent $programmer, but nothing worked. How
can I
get a look at this object?

Mike Conlon
UF

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 08:05:48
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 08:05:48 -0800
From:	Tim Keanini <blast@worldbit.com>
To:	CytheraMOO Administration <cythera@gwent.ac.uk>
cc:	MOO-mailing-list <moo-cows@parc.xerox.com>
Subject: Re: External mail problem... 
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9412071351.A14810-0100000@sun1>
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MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 7 Dec 1994, CytheraMOO Administration wrote:


> Trouble sending mail: 553 sun1.gwent.ac.uk host name configuration error
> It does appear that the mail is in
> fact sent, but still I get the error
> from within the MOO...
> Is this a sendmail problem, or 
> something I haven't set in the MOO?
> My $network.maildrop is set to localhost
> (which is sun1.gwent.ac.uk) and I can't
> really set anything else to set...
> Any ideas?


When the remote machine sends its hostname to the local machine in the
SMTP HELO command, the local machine compares its name to the remote
name to make sure it is not talking to it self (I wish I did this).
If the two are the same, the local machine issues the following error
and closes the connection:

host name configuration error

The name given in the HELO command is the value of the $j macro.  That
value MUST be a fully-qualitfied domain name.

I hope this helps.

blast

   O%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%O
   \    Tim Keanini    |         "The limits of my language,		/
   /    aka blast      | 	       are the limits of my world."	\
   \                   |       		--Ludwig Wittgenstein		/
   /                   |						\
   \                   +================================================/
   / for more info on BayMOO...						\
   \  email blast@worldbit.com             <blast@crl.com>		/
   O%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%O


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 10:41:36
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 10:41:36 -0800
From:	Ian Goodrich <ian@insight.com>
Subject: Re: Another baby step ...
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412071841.AA13373@insight.com>

> I got onto Lambda as a Guest, but it appears I don't
> have enough permissions to see code.

Last time I checked this was true also of "players."  Can't at least  
one code viewing verb be moved to player (& Guest)?  Is this a  
misunderstood security feature or an oversight?

Ian

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 11:18:26
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 11:18:26 -0800
From:	Jay Campbell <edge@iac.net>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
cc:	eff-moo@eff.org
Subject: Aero-DB bugs
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941207141211.24587E@little-miami.iac.net>
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There are a couple problems with the db, here's how to fix them:

Move line 29 of #25:do_make_player  into line 22 or so of  #25:make_player
@toad guest
@recycle guest

Also, moderators aren't automatically subscribed to english-q, so they'll 
need to type '[english-q' to get on the channel.

Here's how the moderation system works, by the way: users will send 
questions via '[english-q <question>', which moderators will see. 
Moderators then send that to channel 'audience' the same way - I'd 
encourage a cut&paste environment. Moderators should should spiff up the 
spelling and grammar while they're at it, to make everyone look a bit 
more clueful :) Text going to the audience channel will show up on the 
band's 'podium', and they speak on the 'speaker' channel, which everyone 
should see. If we've slipped up and not put everyone on the speaker 
channel (which i think local_admin isn't :( ) just hit '[speaker' to join.

Send any more bugs to me, and we'll post some answers as soon as possible.

Thanks, everybody!

--- 

Jay Campbell    edge@iac.net            <- finger for PGP public key
============    edge@sensemedia.net        jecampbe@uceng.uc.edu
                peterpan@nevernever.net    butterscotch@pudding.net
sex@asmic.org   tin-man@oz.net             jabberwock@wonder.net

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 11:57:40
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 11:57:40 -0800
From:	Jackie Hamilton <kira@io.com>
Subject: problems with $network sendmail
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9412071324.A1965-0100000@pentagon.io.com>


I'm trying to get $network sendmail to work on Metaverse.  We can't use 
"localhost" as a maildrop, because sendmail isnt configured properly on 
the local machine.  So, I tried setting $network.maildrop to 
"pentagon.io.com", a neighboring machine.  If I try:

;$network:sendmail("someuser@io.com","somesubj","somemessage)

Then it *does* send the mail, but it never returns from the verb call, 
and leaves this in the @forked queue:

Queue ID    Start Time            Owner         Verb (Line) [This]
--------    ----------            -----         ------------------
1676319797  Reading input ...     Dead #-24     #10208:raw_sendmail (40)

And I have to @kill it to make it stop.

Curiously when I run it with $network.debugging on, it will stop 
normally, and the end of the messages runs like this:

| GET: 250 NAA02784 Message accepted for delivery
| GET: 503 Need MAIL before RCPT
| => "503 Need MAIL before RCPT"

Yet it still sends the mail.  I'm really lost on this, if anyone can help 
out please get in touch with me.

-Jackie Hamilton
kira@io.com


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 13:21:27
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 13:21:27 -0800
From:	Jay Campbell <edge@iac.net>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
cc:	eff-moo@eff.org
Subject: aero db moderators
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941207161252.25374F-100000@little-miami.iac.net>
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To clear up some confusion, moderators on all the db's are on common 
channels. They should be listening to [english-questions], and [speaker] 
if they want to catch that side of it, and [audience] is where they send 
(edited?) questions to the band. Moderators should pay close attention to 
[audience] so they don't submit duplicate questions from 
[english-questions] to the band.

Flip channels on and off by [e, [s, and [a - use this if the spam gets 
too heavy.

The common channel system is the way it is in case a db has a couple 
hundred users and only one or two moderators - the entire question load 
is dispersed to whoever has the urge to paste a few lines at any given 
moment.

We should be broadcasting some nonsense a couple hours before the 10 EST 
event. Some EFF gurus are coming online early, so it won't be total 
hogwash :)

---
Jay Campbell    edge@iac.net            <- finger for PGP public key
============    edge@sensemedia.net        jecampbe@uceng.uc.edu
                peterpan@nevernever.net    butterscotch@pudding.net
sex@asmic.org   tin-man@oz.net             jabberwock@wonder.net

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 13:57:35
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 13:57:35 -0800
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	mconlon@stat.ufl.edu (Mike Conlon)
Subject: A general question in code reuse
Cc:	mconlon@stat.ufl.edu



I would like to write moo code that reuses existing verbs. Many of
the verbs I want to reuse are command line verbs and I understand that
they must be +x to execute them from within a verb.

What syntax can I use to achieve an equivalent result to
calling from the command line? This is a general question for
calling any command line verb.

As an example, suppose I want to call @dump. From the command line
I might write:

  @dump #888 with create

But how can I do this from within a verb? I have tried things
that look like what I found on page 30 of the LambdaMOO Programmer's
Guide:

  #59:("@dump")(#888,"with","create")

but without success. I know I can copy the code from @dump to another
verb and use args[.] to get params in the new verb, but that seems
like a tremendous waste of code, since I might want to call any 
command line verb.

Is there anyone reusing command line code like this that can give me an example
to work from or explain how this might be done in general?

Mike Conlon
UF


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 14:47:00
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 14:47:00 -0800
From:	"James R O'kane" <jo2y+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: unanswered questions

hi,
    i've seen some questions asked here by new moo owners and i've been
waiting for the answers to come back because i have the same or similar
questions.

who is hacker and everyman?
how is news #61 used?

and some new ones of my own.
does anyone know who wrote the metaroom.moo availiable at
parcftp.xerox.com/pub/MOO/contrib/moocode ?
and/or
know how to eliminate the use of $exits and integeate them into the $room?


Written with recycled electrons.


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 14:55:22
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 14:55:22 -0800
From:	Jay Campbell <edge@iac.net>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
cc:	eff-moo@eff.org
Subject: aero update number 98,927
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MIME-Version: 1.0
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OK, moderators don't need to listen to [audience]. We'll handle duplicate 
questions at the hub. This should help cut down the hair-pulling from 
moderators getting flooded with questions. So, listen to [speaker] for 
the presentation. Users send to [english-questions], which moderators 
see. Moderators send decent questions to [audience].

Again, sorry for the confusion. This change was in response to a lot of 
mail from moderators worried about spam and keeping up with weeding out 
duplication.

[This prolly won't be the last :)]

---

Jay Campbell    edge@iac.net            <- finger for PGP public key
============    edge@sensemedia.net        jecampbe@uceng.uc.edu
                peterpan@nevernever.net    butterscotch@pudding.net
sex@asmic.org   tin-man@oz.net             jabberwock@wonder.net

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 15:38:37
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 15:38:37 -0800
From:	Judy Anderson <yduj@cs.stanford.edu>
Subject: Another baby step ...
In-Reply-to: "Ian Goodrich's message of Wed, 7 Dec 1994 10:41:36 PST <9412071841.AA13373@insight.com>"
To:	ian@insight.com
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412072338.AA23087@Xenon.Stanford.EDU>

Players may chparent themselves to $prog without needing a programmer
bit and can thus read code all they like.

We can't give privileges to guests on LambdaMOO without it being voted
in by the LambdaMOO populace.  Perhaps some concerned citizen will
write up an @list feature object for you and publicize it on this list.

Really, if you want to do stuff with LambdaMOO, get a character so you
can be accountable for your actions.

      Judy Anderson yclept yduJ          'yduJ' rhymes with 'fudge'
 yduJ@cs.stanford.edu (personal mail)   yduJ@harlequin.com (work-related)
	Join the League for Programming Freedom, lpf@uunet.uu.net

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 15:02:02
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Subject: Re: A general question in code reuse
To:	mconlon@stat.ufl.edu (Mike Conlon)
Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 15:02:02 -0800
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com, mconlon@stat.ufl.edu
In-Reply-To: <199412072157.QAA12245@stat.ufl.edu> from "Mike Conlon" at Dec 7, 94 01:57:35 pm
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what Mike Conlon really MEANT to say was:

>   #59:("@dump")(#888,"with","create")
> 
> but without success. I know I can copy the code from @dump to another
> verb and use args[.] to get params in the new verb, but that seems
> like a tremendous waste of code, since I might want to call any 
> command line verb.

If you're calling @dump from within a verb, you're obviously doing
this on another MOO other than Lambda or one with stock Lambdacore.
@dump is !x, as has been quite clearly stated here.  so get somewiz to
make @dump a wrapper for a +x verb, the way the `examine' command is
done.  If you must use the actual @dump command, it'll have to be made
+x, in which case you can just do the following (goes for any +x
verb).

dobj = #888;
argstr = "#888 with create";
#59:("@dump")();

Methinks we need a MOO programming FAQ.
Someone wanna mail me some other questions that I can add?

Kirlan@LambdaMOO


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 16:05:56
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 16:05:56 -0800
From:	Judy Anderson <yduj@cs.stanford.edu>
Message-Id: <9412080005.AA26464@Xenon.Stanford.EDU>
To:	cadams@weather.brockport.edu
Cc:	mconlon@stat.ufl.edu, moo-cows@parc.xerox.com, mconlon@stat.ufl.edu
In-Reply-To: cadams@weather.brockport.edu's message of Wed, 7 Dec 1994 15:02:02 PST <9412072302.AA03481@lightning>
Subject: A general question in code reuse

   From: cadams@weather.brockport.edu
   Date: 	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 15:02:02 PST

   what Mike Conlon really MEANT to say was:

   >   #59:("@dump")(#888,"with","create")
   > 
   > but without success. I know I can copy the code from @dump to another
   > verb and use args[.] to get params in the new verb, but that seems
   > like a tremendous waste of code, since I might want to call any 
   > command line verb.

   If you're calling @dump from within a verb, you're obviously doing
   this on another MOO other than Lambda or one with stock Lambdacore.
   @dump is !x, as has been quite clearly stated here.  so get somewiz to
   make @dump a wrapper for a +x verb, the way the `examine' command is
   done.  If you must use the actual @dump command, it'll have to be made
   +x, in which case you can just do the following (goes for any +x
   verb).

   dobj = #888;
   argstr = "#888 with create";
   #59:("@dump")();

Unless you're completely sure how @dump processes its arguments,
you'll want to do lots more than just that.

dobj=#888
dobjstr="#888"
argstr="#888 with create"
iobj=#-3
iobjstr="create"
prepstr="with"
args={"#888","with","create"}

This is easy to get wrong (for example, I probably just did).  It's
better to do the wrapper code, with a verb :do_dump_internal that
@dump calls after parsing arguments appropriately.

      Judy Anderson yclept yduJ          'yduJ' rhymes with 'fudge'
 yduJ@cs.stanford.edu (personal mail)   yduJ@harlequin.com (work-related)
	Join the League for Programming Freedom, lpf@uunet.uu.net

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 16:43:13
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 16:43:13 -0800
From:	Jay Campbell <edge@iac.net>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: suggestion (fwd)
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 16:41:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Charles Storms <astorms@galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu>
To: Jay Campbell <edge@iac.net>
Subject: suggestion

>people are getting lost on the MOO-rooms.
>I made a quick 'home' verbon the guest. it returns the player to #11
>
>
>move(caller, #11)
> i think thsi will save a lot of @move player to <> fo rth admins :)
>

anyone who wants to, go for it



From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 16:46:02
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 16:46:02 -0800
From:	Ian Goodrich <ian@insight.com>
Subject: Re: Another baby step ...
To:	yudy@cs.stanford.edu
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412080046.AA14196@insight.com>

> Really, if you want to do stuff with LambdaMOO, get a
> character so you can be accountable for your actions.
>
The original poster didn't want to "do stuff with LambdaMOO" s/he (I  
forget which) wanted to know how LambdaMOO did stuff.

Secondly, how can the act of merely looking at world readable code be  
abusive or in need of censure? It seem to me that "Accountability" is  
irrelevant here.

I fail to see what is lost by letting guests read code, other than,  
perhaps, "it lets them cheat"--sort of, maybe.

> We can't give privileges to guests on LambdaMOO without it
> being voted in by the LambdaMOO populace.  Perhaps some
> concerned citizen will write up an @list feature object for
> you and publicize it on this list.
>
You've lost me here.  Guests can't add features.  Why would an @list  
feature object help guests who wanted to look at code?  And, as for  
players, as you've noted, a player can chparent to $prog and read all  
the code s/he desires.  Or do you just mean "nothing can be done  
without a vote"?

Ian

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 18:29:20
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 18:29:20 -0800
From:	Matthew Wojcik <woj@ccs.neu.edu>
Subject: Re: Another baby step ...
In-Reply-to: "Your message of \"Wed, 07 Dec 94 16:46:02 PST.\"
             <9412080046.AA14196@insight.com>ea"
To:	Ian Goodrich <ian@insight.com>
cc:	yudy@cs.stanford.edu, moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <199412080229.VAA27110@ascutney.ccs.neu.edu>


Woo, Ian flames.  Woj deletes much of said flames.

>The original poster didn't want to "do stuff with LambdaMOO" s/he (I  
>forget which) wanted to know how LambdaMOO did stuff.

I think what yduJ was simply suggesting that the original poster might well
want a character on LM if e was going to spend any time there looking at code.
Even with a guest that's a kid of $programmer, it's far more convenient to
look at code as a player, especially if you get yourself a programmer's bit.

>
>> We can't give privileges to guests on LambdaMOO without it
>> being voted in by the LambdaMOO populace.  Perhaps some
>> concerned citizen will write up an @list feature object for
>> you and publicize it on this list.
>>
>You've lost me here.  Guests can't add features.  Why would an @list  
>feature object help guests who wanted to look at code?  And, as for  
>players, as you've noted, a player can chparent to $prog and read all  
>the code s/he desires.  Or do you just mean "nothing can be done  
>without a vote"?

Umm, guests *can* add features, if the owner of the feature allows it, by
setting .guest_ok.  A ballot allowing this got passed some time back; I don't
remember when.

>
>Ian

--The Woj                    Matthew Wojcik                   woj@ccs.neu.edu
                        Experimental Systems Group
          College of Computer Science, Northeastern University

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 18:38:14
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 18:38:14 -0800
From:	Judy Anderson <yduj@cs.stanford.edu>
Subject: Another baby step ...
In-Reply-to: "Ian Goodrich's message of Wed, 7 Dec 1994 16:46:02 PST <9412080046.AA14196@insight.com>"
To:	ian@insight.com
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412080238.AA15500@Xenon.Stanford.EDU>

Guests can add features now, provided the FO author had okayed it ...
But it really *is* the case that we can't do anything to guests
without causing a huge foo-foo-raw, regardless of the innocence or
reasonableness of our goal...  Anyway, I regret bringing up LambdaMOO
politics.

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 18:46:55
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Message-ID: <0itbCTa00VB006oVB8@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 18:46:55 -0800
From:	"James R O'kane" <jo2y+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: more questions

sorry to waste bandwidth but i remembered some more questions.

if i wanted to send e-mail to all of the players how could this be done?
		and
what does the ctype on $room do?


-james


Written with recycled electrons.

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 19:07:14
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 19:07:14 -0800
From:	Judy Anderson <yduj@cs.stanford.edu>
Message-Id: <9412080307.AA18255@Xenon.Stanford.EDU>
To:	jo2y+@andrew.cmu.edu
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-Reply-To: "James R O'kane"'s message of Wed, 7 Dec 1994 18:46:55 PST <0itbCTa00VB006oVB8@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: more questions

ctype defines how the contents will be displayed by
$room:tell_contents.  3 is what you normally find on MOOs, 1 is
tinymud emulation, and 2 is stupid :-)

I'm wary of answering your other question.  Someone might *do* it on
LambdaMOO, where the bloated db really can't cope.  (I mean, it can't
cope with the data it has *now*, but ...)

      Judy Anderson yclept yduJ          'yduJ' rhymes with 'fudge'
 yduJ@cs.stanford.edu (personal mail)   yduJ@harlequin.com (work-related)
	Join the League for Programming Freedom, lpf@uunet.uu.net

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 19:15:06
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 19:15:06 -0800
From:	rivit@eskimo.com (LinuxMan!)
Message-Id: <199412080315.AA14632@eskimo.com>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: lambdamoo


Can wizards actually do anything on LambdaMOO without having to have a ballot passed for it?

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 19:25:21
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 19:25:21 -0800
From:	rivit@eskimo.com (LinuxMan!)
Message-Id: <199412080325.AA15342@eskimo.com>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: hmmm...


this mailing list appears to have turned into *newbie-help...

ctype on $room determines how the :contents() of the room is displayed to the
player, see $room:tell_contents for more info...

as for emailing all the players, you mean moo-mail, right?
you could make a prop on yourself .temp and @notedit it, put the text of the
"mail in it, and then: ;$mail_agent:send_message(player, players(), "subject", plater.temp)

brett

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 19:52:16
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 19:52:16 -0800
From:	Judy Anderson <yduj@cs.stanford.edu>
Message-Id: <9412080352.AA21326@Xenon.Stanford.EDU>
To:	rivit@eskimo.com
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-Reply-To: LinuxMan!'s message of Wed, 7 Dec 1994 19:15:06 PST <199412080315.AA14632@eskimo.com>
Subject: lambdamoo

Not really.  We do anyway.

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 19:59:24
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 19:59:24 -0800
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	Allan Crain <allanc@crl.com>
Subject: Aerosmith problems...

    Anyone out there know why the MOOlink keeps dying?

------------------------------
Allan Crain  |  allanc@crl.com


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 20:36:00
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To:	rivit@eskimo.com (LinuxMan!), moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	lpolin@pepperdine.edu (Linda Polin)
Subject: blanket mail


aaaack! Why would you email all the players? That's why MOOgod made news items.

>as for emailing all the players, you mean moo-mail, right?
>you could make a prop on yourself .temp and @notedit it, put the text of the
>"mail in it, and then: ;$mail_agent:send_message(player, players(), "subject",
>plater.temp)
>


Linda Polin
Associate Professor of Education, Pepperdine University
400 Corporate Pointe, Culver City, CA 90230
internet: lpolin@pepperdine.edu
FAX: 310-568-5755  VOX: 310-568-5641


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 21:16:02
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To:	"James R O'kane" <jo2y+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: emailing
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com

If you want to true-to-goodness *email* every player, that will take some  
doing.  Basically, make a loop that will $network:sendmail() your message to  
the addresses given in $player.email_address.  But chances are, not everyone  
has a valid email address, so this could get tricky...

I just whipped this code up, so I don't know how bug-free it is.  But it  
should give you the general idea.

--------------------------------------------------------
if (!caller_perms().wizard)
  return E_PERM
endif

"Set up the variables";
nonrecipients = {}  "(The list of players without valid email addresses)";
player:tell("Subject:");
subject = read(player) "or any property containing the subject as a string";
body = $command_utils:read_lines(player) "or any property containing - ";
  "the message as a string list";

"Send the mail to everyone, recording those without valid email addresses";
for I in (players())
  to = "\""+I.name+"\" <"I.email_address+>";
  if (!($network:sendmail(to, subject, @body)))
    nonrecipients = listappend(nonrecipients, I);
  endif
endfor

"Report on it's success";
if (recipients == {})
  player:tell("*** Mail successfully sent to all players ***");
else
  player:tell("Players whose email addresses don't look valid (mail wasn't  
sent to them):");
  for I in (nonrecipients)
    player:tell(I,"   ",I.name);
  endfor
endif
--------------------------------------------------------

Remember:  @chmod it -d, so you don't get tracebacks when sendmail errs (the  
player doesn't have a valid email address).

Phantom

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 22:41:22
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To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	bmgustav@bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il (Gustavo Glusman)
Subject: Re: aero update number 98,927

It would be very nice if a separate mailing list were created for those
interested in this Aerosmith issue.

I myself would rather not receive all this mail.

Thanks in advance.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Gustavo Glusman               Founder/administrator of BioMOO
-- Gustavo@bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il
-- http://bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il:70/0h/Gustavo/Glusman
-- BioMOO: telnet bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il 8888
           WWW:   http://bioinfo.weizmann.ac.il:8888


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 7 Dec 1994 23:30:55
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Date:	Wed, 7 Dec 1994 23:30:55 -0800
From:	Jeremy Cooper <jeremy@crl.com>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: aero update number 98,927
In-Reply-To: <9412080641.AA23043@bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il>
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On Wed, 7 Dec 1994, Gustavo Glusman praised SPAM:

> It would be very nice if a separate mailing list were created for those
> interested in this Aerosmith issue.
> 
> I myself would rather not receive all this mail.

YAY SPAM!
                   .  _  _  .  _ ___ _  .  _
===-|)/\\/|V|/\/\ /_\|_|(_)/_\|_|\_/(_)/_\|_| Stop by for an excursion  -===
===-|)||/ | |\/\/ telnet moo.crl.com 8888 (_) into the Virtual Bay Area!-===

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 8 Dec 1994 04:45:54
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To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	ebasta@acns.fsu.edu (Beth Basta)
Subject: Re: blanket mail

>aaaack! Why would you email all the players? That's why MOOgod made news items.
>

For all those players who insist on ignoring the news and bulletin boards
and big, bright, flashing, neon signs. ;)  (which I have been guilty of
when I have programming on my mind)


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 8 Dec 1994 05:07:28
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To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	ebasta@acns.fsu.edu (Beth Basta)
Subject: newbie questions

Since I have asked many questions here (and gotten much help) I think it is
time for me to contribute back as much as I can.  (not that I have become a
guru or anything 8)

I believe that the answers to the news questions were posted awhile back (I
forgot by who)  Basically, The person @sends mail to the *news
mail-recipient.  Then an authorized person sifts through all the mail on
the *news and uses the @addnews <number> on #61 command for any extra
insightful news that may have been mailed.  I don't really let anyone but
wizzes and a few programmers post to the news, just because I don't want to
have to sift through too much.  I can see how this would be very troublsome
to LambdaMOO since there are over (last I heard) 3000 players.

To remove news use the command @rmnews <number> from #61.  Just poke around
#61 to find any other helpful verbs.  Also do a help $mail-recipient for
more help on generic mail-recipients.

This should be right, I am sure I will be told about it if I am wrong 8) ,
but I have seen many questions about how to work the $news.

Beth

Four Seasons MOO


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 8 Dec 1994 05:31:55
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Date:	Thu, 8 Dec 1994 05:31:55 -0800
From:	Jackie Hamilton <kira@io.com>
Subject: hardcoded connection limits??
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Reply-to: Jackie Hamilton <kira@io.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9412072150.A13577-0100000@pentagon.io.com>


Well, some of us participating in the inter-MOO aerosmith thing got
a rather nasty surprise... hardcoded connection limits?

*** Sorry, but the server cannot accept any more connections right now.
*** Please try again later.

What is this, and why's it in net_multi.c and not in the db?  Is it 
changeable, or is there some reason for it (we maxxed out at just 57 
connections.  And I know there were more people trying to get in.)

-Jackie Hamilton
kira@io.com



From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 8 Dec 1994 06:20:21
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Date:	Thu, 8 Dec 1994 06:20:21 -0800
From:	Alex Stewart <riche@crl.com>
Subject: Re: hardcoded connection limits??
In-Reply-to: "<Pine.3.89.9412072150.A13577-0100000@pentagon.io.com> from \"Jackie Hamilton\" at Dec 8, 94 05:31:55 am_"
To:	kira@io.com
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <199412081420.AA18835@crl10.crl.com>

> *** Sorry, but the server cannot accept any more connections right now.
> *** Please try again later.
> 
> What is this, and why's it in net_multi.c and not in the db?  Is it 
> changeable, or is there some reason for it (we maxxed out at just 57 
> connections.  And I know there were more people trying to get in.)

This limitation isn't part of the MOO server, it happens as the result of a
unix resource limit.  The MOO server needs to use one unix file descriptor
for each open network connection, and under most unix systems, there is a limit
imposed on how many file descriptors can be used by any unix process
simultaneously.  On many systems the default for this limit is set to 64
descriptors per process.  Several FDs are used for such things as stdin,
stdout, stderr, reading/writing the DB file, etc.  This, combined with any
outbound network connections currently active, reduces the limit somewhat
further, resulting in somewhere around 57 available for inbound connections,
after which point the server simply isn't allowed to create any more
connections, and prints this message instead.

The simplest way to get around this problem on most systems is to simply change
the process limits before executing the MOO server program.  Under csh (which
the restart script uses (you are using the restart script, right? :)) you can
up the limit for file descriptors to the maximum allowed (commonly 256) by
adding the statement 'unlimit descriptors' before the line that executes the
moo server. (the current limits can also be displayed or changed with the
'limit' unix command)

It took me some time to figure this out for myself when I ran into the problem
a while back.. it might be nice if there were a note about this in the
documentation or restart script that comes with MOO..

-R
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Alex Stewart - riche@crl.com - Richelieu @ Diversity University MOO
              ftp://ftp.crl.com/users/ro/riche/html/riche.html

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 8 Dec 1994 08:08:06
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To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	grgcombs@mail.utexas.edu (Gregory S. Combs)
Subject: Re: emailing

>If you want to true-to-goodness *email* every player, that will take some
>doing.  Basically, make a loop that will $network:sendmail() your message to
>the addresses given in $player.email_address.  But chances are, not everyone
>has a valid email address, so this could get tricky...
>
better yet. i've got an easier way of doing it, and i've done it.

go through every valid player in the database
  make a tempvariable of his mail_options.
  change his mail_options to add "netmail" to the list
  send him a moo mail message
  change his mail_options to be whatever the temp says...
  suspend if  needed
end loop

Greg

--
Gregory S. Combs		grgcombs@mail.utexas.edu
http://www.utexas.edu/~grgcombs
----------------------------
Frater magnus te videt ::::: bortaS bir jablu'DI'reH QaQqu' nay'
PGP fingerprint:
1024/2FEE9AB9 1994/06/11 = 21 27 2F A1 E7 FD 45 FD  29 67 13 9B 8A 04 12 45
Finger grgcombs@bongo.cc.utexas.edu for Public Key.


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 8 Dec 1994 13:10:41
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Date:	Thu, 8 Dec 1994 13:10:41 -0800
From:	Mike Conlon <mconlon@stat.ufl.edu>
Message-Id: <199412082110.QAA25861@stat>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Reusing verbs solved!
Content-Length: 1300


I want to thank all the people who sent helpful mail on the
reusing verbs, espcially command line verbs, problem. 

The basic "problem" is that command line verbs manipulate
objects like doj, dobjstr, etc which are created by the
parser when the command line is processed. For an internal
verb to call a command line verb, the internal verb must
supply all these values.

I wrote a small verb to repeatedly call @dump (a command
line verb) to dump out all a player's owned objects in create
format. It serves as a complete worked example of the programming
required to call a command line verb from inside another verb.

@program #6:dump-my-stuff
"                                                                ";
" dump all objects owned by the player using create format. Good ";
" for taking things to another MOO.                              ";
" http://www.clas.ufl.edu/~mconlon                               ";
"                                                                ";
  for o in (player.owned_objects)
    dobj = o;
    dobjstr = tostr(o);
    iobj = #-3;
    iobjstr = "create";
    prepstr = "with";
    argstr = tostr(o," with create");
    args = { o, "with","create"};
    $prog:("@dump")();
  endfor

Thanks again for all those who helped with this problem.

Mike Conlon
UF

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 8 Dec 1994 12:07:48
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Date:	Thu, 8 Dec 1994 12:07:48 -0800
From:	Ian Goodrich <ian@insight.com>
Subject: Re: Another baby step...(killed dead)
To:	woj@ccs.neu.edu
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412082007.AA16468@insight.com>


> Woo, Ian flames.
>

Completely unintended.
Point/Counterpoint or Quote/Response tends to be inherently  
aggressive. Next time I'll soften my tone.  Still, I thought  
flaming(tm) was more like "Only a moron would think such a thing" and  
"Obviously, if your finger weren't so busy scratching your brain  
through your nostril, you'd see that I'm right" and other such  
nonsense.  My tone was unapologetic. Instead of:
"Actually, Woj, I tend to disagree"
I, unfortunately, opted for the slightly snottier: "Untrue."

Point is: no malice nor ill will, in any way, at all, intended ever  
even a little tiny bit. Nor do I think anyone is unwarrantedly  
scratching anything.

> Umm, guests *can* add features
>

Ah, yes, well, um... that settles that then.

Thanks for your patience,

Ian

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 8 Dec 1994 14:43:42
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From:	Richard Connamacher <connamr@alleg.edu>
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To:	Mike Conlon <mconlon@stat.ufl.edu>
Subject: Re: Reusing verbs solved!
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com

Dumping ALL of a player's objects?!  Ack!  SPAM!!!  I just @dumped myself on  
BayMOO and was sitting there for what must have been five minutes, watching it  
all go by!

But one note about your loop: I took a look at the code for @dump, and all it  
uses are dobjstr, prepstr, iobjstr, and args.  (It uses dobj, but defines it  
on its own)  So you might want to save ticks by getting rid of the other ones.   
But other then that tiny and practically useless detail, it is fine :)

As Jeremy Cooper had said in an earlier post, "YAY SPAM!" :)

Phantom

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 8 Dec 1994 15:42:15
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Date:	Thu, 8 Dec 1994 15:42:15 -0800
From:	Alex Stewart <riche@crl.com>
Subject: Re: problems with $network sendmail
In-Reply-to: "<Pine.3.89.9412071324.A1965-0100000@pentagon.io.com> from \"Jackie Hamilton\" at Dec 7, 94 11:57:40 amwo"
To:	kira@io.com (Jackie Hamilton)
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <199412082342.AA10278@crl7.crl.com>

> Then it *does* send the mail, but it never returns from the verb call, 
> and leaves this in the @forked queue:

I've never experienced this, but...

> Curiously when I run it with $network.debugging on, it will stop 
> normally, and the end of the messages runs like this:
> 
> | GET: 250 NAA02784 Message accepted for delivery
> | GET: 503 Need MAIL before RCPT
> | => "503 Need MAIL before RCPT"

I just now ran into exactly this same problem when testing out netmail on DU's
new host.  I've looked and looked and all I can figure out is that it's some
odd bug in the sendmail daemon, as I can find absolutely no cause for such a
response at that point in processing the message.

Something else that's rather odd is I can't duplicate the problem if I telnet
in by hand and send it exactly the same input that the MOO sends it.  I'm
beginning to think it's somehow related to some timing issue or some other
famous fickle factor (FFF), which might explain your change in behavior between
debugging and non-debugging attempts, also..

In any case, I've come up with a fix for the 503 problem (well, it's not a fix,
really, merely a workaround).  Edit $network:raw_sendmail and change the
following (line 48):

    if (!index("23", line[1]))

to:

    if (line[4] == "-")
    elseif (!index("23", line[1]))

(this actually makes the sendmail routine more compatible with the SMTP spec,
and has the side-effect of causing it to stop paying attention before it gets
to the 503 error line (which is really what it's supposed to do anyway), and
thus ignore the error)

I dunno if this will help your hanging problem, but it's quite possible it'll
take care of that too.

Out of curiosity, what OS is pentagon running? (solaris/SunOS-5?)  Does its
SMTP daemon identify itself as something like:

220-not.radio.com Sendmail 8.6.9/941123.08ccg ready at Thu, 8 Dec 1994 18:10:18 -0500

(the above being a quote from my problem daemon)?

-R
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Alex Stewart - riche@crl.com - Richelieu @ Diversity University MOO
              ftp://ftp.crl.com/users/ro/riche/html/riche.html

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 9 Dec 1994 12:23:33
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Date:	Fri, 9 Dec 1994 12:23:33 -0800
From:	jerry@pwa.acusd.edu (Jerry Stratton)
Subject: Channels. Also URLs on Objects. Oh and Mac Client too.
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com (MooCows)
Message-ID: <9412092023.AA28692@pwa.acusd.edu>

I was impressed with the channeling code on the Aerosmith event. It was
called "Conferencing Feature Object". I'd like to add this to our
general MOO, Valhalla.acusd.edu. Where can I get this and its
instructions? Are there other 'channel' options for MOO out there?

In other news...
The latest Macintosh HyperMU* client is available on cerebus.acusd.edu,
ftp or gopher, in "MOO Stuff/System/Valhalla URL". The code for adding
URLs to MOO objects is also there. (This was the original purpose for
the HyperMU* client, to grab URLs off of objects and pass them to a
Macintosh Web client.)

Jerry Stratton
jerry@teetot.acusd.edu (Finger/Reply for PGP Public Key)
------
       I'd rather be in some dark hollow where the sun don't ever shine
       Then to be in some big city, in a small room, with you upon my mind.
					  Dark Hollow

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 9 Dec 1994 13:14:23
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Date:	Fri, 9 Dec 1994 13:14:23 -0800
From:	Jackie Hamilton <kira@io.com>
Subject: Re: Channels. Also URLs on Objects. Oh and Mac Client too.
In-Reply-to: <9412092023.AA28692@pwa.acusd.edu>
To:	Jerry Stratton <jerry@pwa.acusd.edu>
cc:	MooCows <moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9412091501.A3896-0100000@pentagon.io.com>


On Fri, 9 Dec 1994, Jerry Stratton wrote:

> I was impressed with the channeling code on the Aerosmith event. It was
> called "Conferencing Feature Object". I'd like to add this to our
> general MOO, Valhalla.acusd.edu. Where can I get this and its
> instructions? Are there other 'channel' options for MOO out there?

If you're wanting to add non-networked channels, feel free to stop by 
DreaMOO (fiinix.metronet.com 8888) and check out our design.  Full 
multichannelling and channel aliases, and interception of the channel 
aliases in #0:do_command.  And a channel database object, with hashed 
properties for storing lists of who's on what channel.  This is the same 
design on at least 4 MOOs now, if not more... I know it's been ported 
around.  

I'd really love to add networked channels, so you could talk across 
moos.  That'd be wild.  Or something like IceLink with a little more 
functionality (different speakers?  different audience channels?)... I 
think there'd be real interest in holding events on such a networked MOO 
forum like this.  (as long as the links stay up) ;)

-Jackie Hamilton
kira@io.com



From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 9 Dec 1994 14:36:49
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Date:	Fri, 9 Dec 1994 14:36:49 -0800
From:	sle@picosof.com (Samuel Latt Epstein)
Subject: Re: Channels. Also URLs on Objects. Oh and Mac Client too.
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412092234.AA19575@Sequoia.picosof.com>

>On Fri, 9 Dec 1994, Jerry Stratton wrote:

at present The Sprawl and WorldMOO have been closely linked with the
MOOlink(ice link) for serveral months.

the full implementation (not just what was released in the template db)
supports inter moo paging, remote whos, we even have a virtual hot tub #388
where people can enter from either moo.

the tech was scaled up for the show, in a big hurry i might add.

now that we have 'done' it, it is time to do it right.  we will be working with
jhm to integrated in the best features of orbitnet and anything else we can
do to make the link even more reliable.

we learning alot about scaling up in this one, the REAL problem still
remains channeling thousands of questions into a single speaker.  we look
forward to many interesting attempts at solving this problem.  including
random selection, local balcony voting on questions,...whatever.  this
needs to be worked on.

thanks again!

sam

p.s. send those funky logs to aerosmith@sensemedia.net to have them
included in the exhibit/archive.


Samuel Latt Epstein
Director, Hypermedia Services
sle@sensemedia.net
-----
The SenseMedia Network - http://sensemedia.net/ - mailto:info@sensemedia.net



From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 9 Dec 1994 17:29:59
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Date:	Fri, 9 Dec 1994 17:29:59 -0800
From:	Joel Thornton <thorntoj@nova.edmonds.wednet.edu>
Subject: Re: Channels. Also URLs on Objects. Oh and Mac Client too.
In-Reply-to: <9412092234.AA19575@Sequoia.picosof.com>
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.90.941209172721.19995B-100000@nova>

On Fri, 9 Dec 1994, Samuel Latt Epstein wrote:

> >On Fri, 9 Dec 1994, Jerry Stratton wrote:

> at present The Sprawl and WorldMOO have been closely linked with the
> MOOlink(ice link) for serveral months.

Excuse my naivety, but what .is. IceLink (MOOLink) and how could our MOO 
become involved? Thanks..

--
   |\|||/|     			-=Joel Thornton=-	            |\|||/|
nineinchnails  	thorntoj@edmonds.wednet.edu | mage@eskimo.com    nineinchnails
- Finger for PGP262 Key! -- Telnet Nova.Edmonds.Wednet.Edu 8888 for NOVAMOO -

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 11 Dec 1994 13:25:29
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From:	ken@odin.stockton.edu (Ken Tompkins)
Message-Id: <9412112125.AA21217@odin.stockton.edu>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: HyperHotel's address

Anyone have the current address for HyperHotel MOO?

ken tompkins
richard stockton college

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 11 Dec 1994 15:40:09
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From:	Tom Meyer <twm@cs.brown.edu>
Message-Id: <199412112340.SAA16123@transit>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: HyperHotel's address
In-Reply-To: <9412112125.AA21217@odin.stockton.edu>
References: <9412112125.AA21217@odin.stockton.edu>

In article <9412112125.AA21217@odin.stockton.edu>, ken@odin.stockton.edu (Ken Tompkins) writes:

> Anyone have the current address for HyperHotel MOO?

duke.cs.brown.edu 8888

Tom Meyer

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 11 Dec 1994 16:06:50
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Date:	Sun, 11 Dec 1994 16:06:50 -0800
From:	ken@odin.stockton.edu (Ken Tompkins)
Message-Id: <9412120006.AA02983@odin.stockton.edu>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com, twm@cs.brown.edu
Subject: Re: HyperHotel's address

Tom...that is the exact address I have and I keep getting
refused using TF. I will try it again. Thanks....

kt

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 11 Dec 1994 23:42:06
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Date:	Sun, 11 Dec 1994 23:42:06 -0800
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	Allan Crain <allanc@crl.com>
Subject: Macintosh MOO...

    Is there any way to run this on a Mac LC II? Whenever I try I get an
unimplemented trap and my Mac crashes... I have the latest copy of the
threads manager installed, the db file is set to type MOO, and I started it
by dragging it atop the MOO Server icon. I have 4MB of real memory, and
10MB of virtual, System 7.1 (soon to be 7.5 hopefully).
    Also, can it be run on an LC 520 or 575?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allan Crain | allanc@crl.com | Allan @ WorldMOO (world.sensemedia.net 1234)


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 12 Dec 1994 02:39:46
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From:	bmgustav@bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il (Gustavo Glusman)
Subject: MOO networking Was: Channels. Also URLs on Objects. Oh and Mac Client too.
To:	MOO-Cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412121039.AA01452@bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il>

>at present The Sprawl and WorldMOO have been closely linked with the
>MOOlink(ice link) for serveral months.
>
>the full implementation (not just what was released in the template db)
>supports inter moo paging, remote whos, we even have a virtual hot tub #388
>where people can enter from either moo.

It's amusing to see how people gape in amazement when they see these and
other interMOO features. There have been various MOO networks for quite a
while now, most notably Andy Wilson's MOOnet.
I am currently maintaining and expanding a network of educational- and
professional- oriented MOOs. Currently there are 8 servers in the network,
usually referred to as the 'GNA-net'.

>the tech was scaled up for the show, in a big hurry i might add.
>
>now that we have 'done' it, it is time to do it right.  we will be working with
>jhm to integrated in the best features of orbitnet and anything else we can
>do to make the link even more reliable.

I understand that Andy [Networker] isn't maintaining MOOnet anymore, and is
looking for someone to take over. Wouldn't you like to continue his work,
instead of developing it anew?

On the technical side - is this scaled-up linking a hub-based network? What
routing system does it use?

-------------------------------------------------------------
Gustavo Glusman               Founder/administrator of BioMOO
-- Gustavo@bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il
-- http://bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il:70/0h/Gustavo/Glusman
-- BioMOO: telnet bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il 8888
           WWW:   http://bioinfo.weizmann.ac.il:8888


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 12 Dec 1994 02:29:27
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	From:	Walter A.Aprile <aprile@dsi.unimi.it>
		^	^-illegal period in phrase
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Message-Id: <9412121029.AA20653@pluto.sm.dsi.unimi.it>
Subject: URLs on objects and TinyFugue
From:	<aprile@dsi.unimi.it>
To:	submit-mail-moo-cows@fidogate.nuars.nwu.edu (MOO Cows)
Date:	Mon, 12 Dec 1994 02:29:27 -0800
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On the subject of URLs in MOOs, I have this very cheap TinyFugue macro
that grabs an URL off the MOO output and starts up Mosaic accordingly.

/def  -mregexp -t"^(http|gopher|ftp|telnet)://(.*)" Yo! = :si collega con forze ipertestuali che superano la comprensione umana...%;/sh Mosaic '%1' &%;:ritorna normale. I suoi occhi brillano.

Enjoy, Walter

--http://www.dsi.unimi.it/Users/aprile/Home.html.Un discordiano non puo'credere
a cio' che legge.Ten thousand clouds on the ceiling/and the taste of gasoline.
"Sao ko kelle terre per kelle fini ke ki kontene trenta anni le possette..."
GCSd?-p+c++++!lu+e++m++s++/++!nhf++g+w+t+r-y* FF 00 FF 00 FF 00 FF 00 FF 00

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 12 Dec 1994 04:37:55
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To:	Allan Crain <allanc@crl.com>
From:	ebasta@acns.fsu.edu (Beth Basta)
Subject: Re: Macintosh MOO...
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com

>    Is there any way to run this on a Mac LC II? Whenever I try I get an
>unimplemented trap and my Mac crashes... I have the latest copy of the
>threads manager installed, the db file is set to type MOO, and I started it
>by dragging it atop the MOO Server icon. I have 4MB of real memory, and
>10MB of virtual, System 7.1 (soon to be 7.5 hopefully).
>    Also, can it be run on an LC 520 or 575?
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Allan Crain | allanc@crl.com | Allan @ WorldMOO (world.sensemedia.net 1234)

I had the same problem.  What I found out is that the MacMOO server was/is?
real buggy.  Last I heard, someone was porting over the 1.7.8p3 version in
hopes to make a not so buggy updated version.

>From what I understand (I could be wrong) the MacMOO server alone needs 8
MB of ram.  Your system needs about 2 MB and if you run anything else, then
you would need more.  When I tried to run the server without enough ram it
got an unimplemented trap and the Mac crashed.

My mac cannot use virtual memory (unless I buy a program to do it).  I have
8 MB of ram, but I did eventually start the server by lowering the amount
of memory in the get info screen.  The server then started up.  I never got
to the point of actually successfully running a moo off of my mac because
of other problems, but that got the server up.

System 7.1 should be more than fine for running the server.  Also, if you
have a large db file, it will take up a lot of ram as well.  I was just
using the minimal.db when I attempted to do it.

Hope this helps.

Beth
Four Seasons MOO


From someone 12 Dec 1994 08:55:40
Replied: Mon, 12 Dec 94 19:17:37 -0800
Replied: "John Towell Ph.D." <m50jft1@hayek.cob.niu.edu>
Replied: MOO-Cows.parc@xerox.com
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Date:	Mon, 12 Dec 1994 08:55:40 -0800
From:	"John Towell Ph.D." <m50jft1@hayek.cob.niu.edu>
Subject: gnu-malloc.c & HP/UX
To:	MOO-Cows.parc@xerox.com
Message-ID: <199412121655.AA17807@hayek.cob.niu.edu>

When compiling 1.7.8p4 with malloc on, I'm getting the following:

gnu-malloc.c: In function `get_lim_data':
gnu-malloc.c:818: `RLIMIT_DATA' undeclared (first use this function)
gnu-malloc.c:818: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
gnu-malloc.c:818: for each function it appears in.)
*** Error code 1

our system is:

hayek 114 % uname -a
HP-UX hayek A.09.00 C 9000/835 15323 32-user license

Any help would be greatly appreciated - Thank you


John Towell, Ph.D.
Post-doc: Informatics
Northern Illinois University
m50jft1@hayek.cob.niu.edu
BioMOO Administrator (aka WatsonCrick)
bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il 8888
http://bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il:70

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 12 Dec 1994 10:37:16
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From:	demolish@netcom.com (William R. Enright)
Message-Id: <199412121837.KAA01750@netcom9.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Macintosh MOO...
To:	allanc@crl.com (Allan Crain), moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Date:	Mon, 12 Dec 1994 10:37:16 -0800
In-Reply-To: <199412120742.AA26633@mail.crl.com> from "Allan Crain" at Dec 11, 94 11:42:06 pm
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> 
>     Is there any way to run this on a Mac LC II? Whenever I try I get an
> unimplemented trap and my Mac crashes... I have the latest copy of the

I've found that if you DO NOT have 'program linking' turned on in your 
'Sharing Setup' control panel, then the server crashes on startup with 
an 'unimplemented trap' bug.  If you turn on program linking, this 
problem should go away.
=8^o

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 12 Dec 1994 14:54:47
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Date:	Mon, 12 Dec 1994 14:54:47 -0800
From:	crwilson@nextsrv.cas.muohio.edu (Chad Wilson)
Subject: MOO listing
To:	moo-cows.parc@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412122254.AA11836@nextsrv.cas.muohio.edu>

If the keepr of the faq could please mail me the section of the faq which 
contains the listing of al the current MOO's on the net...
-w

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 12 Dec 1994 16:53:55
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Date:	Mon, 12 Dec 1994 16:53:55 -0800
From:	sle@picosof.com (Samuel Latt Epstein)
Subject: Re: MOO networking Was: Channels. Also URLs on Objects. Oh and Mac Client
 too.
To:	MOO-Cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412130051.AA08853@Sequoia.picosof.com>

>>at present The Sprawl and WorldMOO have been closely linked with the
>>MOOlink(ice link) for serveral months.
>>
>>the full implementation (not just what was released in the template db)
>>supports inter moo paging, remote whos, we even have a virtual hot tub #388
>>where people can enter from either moo.
>
>It's amusing to see how people gape in amazement when they see these and
>other interMOO features. There have been various MOO networks for quite a
>while now, most notably Andy Wilson's MOOnet.
>I am currently maintaining and expanding a network of educational- and
>professional- oriented MOOs. Currently there are 8 servers in the network,
>usually referred to as the 'GNA-net'.

Actually (and if you read the papers and stuff (and the mailing list)) you
would note that Andy Wilson and Jay Carlson of Cardiff and JHM respectively
were credited specifically for early work in MOO networking that we based
our code off of.  Our Web stuff too incidently.  Please let us know if you
would like to plug your servers into our network for our next event.
>
>>the tech was scaled up for the show, in a big hurry i might add.
>>
>>now that we have 'done' it, it is time to do it right.  we will be working
>>with
>>jhm to integrated in the best features of orbitnet and anything else we can
>>do to make the link even more reliable.
>
>I understand that Andy [Networker] isn't maintaining MOOnet anymore, and is
>looking for someone to take over. Wouldn't you like to continue his work,
>instead of developing it anew?

Our Network attempts to take the best features from the existing protocols
including MOO-net and OrbitNet and deploy them OUTSIDE a labratory
environment.

As i stated we are currently working to develop a long term solution that
can be installed in existing DBs for everyday conferencing and forum use,
as well as dedicated NON-MOO based balconies designed specifically for
large virtual forums and will replace the template MOO for hosts that just
want to participate for a single event.
>
>On the technical side - is this scaled-up linking a hub-based network? What
>routing system does it use?

Version 1 is a hyperstar.  all nodes are connected to the hub.  all nodes
can communicate directly to other nodes.

Version 2 (in progress) will let each node serve as a sub hub for scaling
up past thousands.

>
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>Gustavo Glusman               Founder/administrator of BioMOO
>-- Gustavo@bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il
>-- http://bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il:70/0h/Gustavo/Glusman
>-- BioMOO: telnet bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il 8888
>           WWW:   http://bioinfo.weizmann.ac.il:8888

Samuel Latt Epstein
Director, Hypermedia Services
sle@sensemedia.net
-----
The SenseMedia Network - http://sensemedia.net/ - mailto:info@sensemedia.net



From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 12 Dec 1994 17:13:29
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Date:	Mon, 12 Dec 1994 17:13:29 -0800
From:	paul@solar.sky.net
Subject: Re: MOO networking Was: Channels. Also URLs on Objects. Oh and Mac Client
In-Reply-to: "<9412130051.AA08853@Sequoia.picosof.com> from \"Samuel Latt Epstein\" at Dec 12, 94 04:53:55 pmP"
To:	sle@picosof.com (Samuel Latt Epstein)
cc:	MOO-Cows.parc@xerox.com
Message-ID: <94Dec12.171438pst."14557(8)"@alpha.xerox.com>

> our code off of.  Our Web stuff too incidently.  Please let us know if you
		    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Really?

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 12 Dec 1994 17:34:34
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Date:	Mon, 12 Dec 1994 17:34:34 -0800
From:	sle@picosof.com (Samuel Latt Epstein)
Subject: Re: MOO networking Was: Channels. Also URLs on Objects. Oh and Mac Client
To:	paul@solar.sky.net
cc:	moo-cows.parc@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412130132.AA09528@Sequoia.picosof.com>

>> our code off of.  Our Web stuff too incidently.  Please let us know if you
>                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Really?

evidently some feel this statement could be interpretted too broadly. 
while many of the early ChibaMOO experiments involved CardiffMOO and JHM
research, all of the present code in the MOOLink (ICELink) and the
Webbed/MOO interface is original work done by ChibaMOO wizards that does
not incorporate MOONet or JTEXT.

let the record so state...

Samuel Latt Epstein
Director, Hypermedia Services
sle@sensemedia.net
-----
The SenseMedia Network - http://sensemedia.net/ - mailto:info@sensemedia.net



From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 12 Dec 1994 19:17:35
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Date:	Mon, 12 Dec 1994 19:17:35 -0800
From:	Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Subject: Re: gnu-malloc.c & HP/UX
In-Reply-to: "\"John Towell Ph.D.\"'s message of \"Mon, 12 Dec 94 08:55:40 PST\"
             <199412121655.AA17807@hayek.cob.niu.edu>"
To:	"John Towell Ph.D." <m50jft1@hayek.cob.niu.edu>
cc:	MOO-Cows.parc@xerox.com
Message-ID: <94Dec12.191747pst.58372@mu.parc.xerox.com>

John Towell writes:
> When compiling 1.7.8p4 with malloc on, I'm getting the following:
> 
> gnu-malloc.c: In function `get_lim_data':
> gnu-malloc.c:818: `RLIMIT_DATA' undeclared (first use this function)
> gnu-malloc.c:818: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
> gnu-malloc.c:818: for each function it appears in.)
> *** Error code 1

I recommend that you simply turn off use of GNU malloc in options.h.  That code
is increasingly hard to support, so I will likely remove it in some future
release of the server.

	Pavel

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 12 Dec 1994 19:58:32
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Date:	Mon, 12 Dec 1994 19:58:32 -0800
From:	"Wayne E. Bouchard" <WEB@hacks.arizona.edu>
Subject: gnu-malloc & MOO
To:	MOO-Cows.parc@xerox.com
Message-ID: <941212205832.20801b23@HACKS.Arizona.EDU>

Personaly, I like some of the way gnu-malloc does things but I don't use it 
because, with it, the server takes up about 500K more in RAM (out of 
2.7megs). This kind of jump makes the server a bit too hefty considering 
the lack of memory on the system. (Plenty of swap, little free RAM)

I've always been curious exactly why this wasy but parsing GNU code is 
never easy. :)

-Wayne Bouchard (aka Sadric)

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 13 Dec 1994 04:26:26
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Date:	Tue, 13 Dec 1994 04:26:26 -0800
From:	CytheraMOO Administration <cythera@gwent.ac.uk>
Subject: More external mail...
To:	MOO-mailing-list <moo-cows@parc.xerox.com>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9412131221.A1243-0100000@sun1>
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content-length: 1557


Hello all...

Yes, I'm afraid I'm still having
silly and lame problems with sending
external mail from my MOO for password 
changing and new player creation...

I thought I had it solved by changing
the $network.maildrop to a machine that
isn't the one I'm running the server on,
but please cast your eyes over this message...

(An error I was sent in trying to change
someone's password)...

...

>From Mailer-Daemon@gwent.ac.uk Tue Dec 13 12:22:05 1994
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 12:21:00 GMT
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <Mailer-Daemon@gwent.ac.uk>
To: cythera@gwent.ac.uk
Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
Connected to mail.lancs.ac.uk:
>>> DATA
<<< 554 Syntactically invalid address for from field 'Skyhigh@CytheraMOO
<cythera@gwent.ac.uk>'
554 <pyc045@lancs.ac.uk>... Service unavailable

   ----- Unsent message follows -----
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	id AA03932; Tue, 13 Dec 94 12:21:00 GMT
Message-Id: <9412131221.AA03932@sun2.gwent.ac.uk>
Errors-To: cythera@gwent.ac.uk
Date: Tue Dec 13 12:21:20 1994 GMT
From: Skyhigh@CytheraMOO <cythera@gwent.ac.uk>
To: pyc045@lancs.ac.uk
Subject: Your CytheraMOO password
Errors-To: cythera@gwent.ac.uk
X-Mail-Agent: CytheraMOO (sun1.gwent.ac.uk 7777)
content-length: 155

...

This should have sent the new changed
password to the email address, but I
was greeted instead by this error message and a bounce...

Any suggestions about what I have set wrong this time?

Thanks...

Peter Bates,
CytheraMOO (stumbling)


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 13 Dec 1994 11:11:54
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Date:	Tue, 13 Dec 1994 11:11:54 -0800
From:	Allan Alford <chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu>
Subject: Point MOOt and AnarchyMOO
To:	MOO Cows <moo-cows.parc@xerox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9412131334.A5465-0100000@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu>


O.k.  I've finally gotten off my butt and begun the laborious process
of archiving the research data from these two projects.

I've started with the Point MOOt mailing lists.
These lists were the forums for the technical/social/economic/political
development of Point MOOt.

One of these lists - *City Officials, was unreadable by the players
during the actual running of the MOO.

If you participated in Point MOOt, and/or are interested in obtaining
research data from it, do the following:

gopher or ftp to:
actlab.rtf.utexas.edu /MUD/MOO

If you are a researcher interested in extracting certain kinds of data
from either Point MOOt or the AnarchyMOO project, please email me at
the ACTlab, and I will try to accomodate you.

If you are interested in getting on the mailing list in regards to the
theoretical discussions of developing MOO societies, please email
ptmoot@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu.

Thanks for your time, and thanks to all who helped make these projects
possible!

P.S.  If you were a Point MOOt wizard, get in touch!

	chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu
<<< "Hacking today for a better tomorrow..." >>>
	chiphead@eden.com



From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 13 Dec 1994 15:45:18
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Date:	Tue, 13 Dec 1994 15:45:18 -0800
From:	bolie@io.com (Bolie Williams IV)
Subject: Mac MOO server
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <01HKLQFJ0VBM8X108M@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>

Anyone,

        I'm looking for a MOO server for Macintosh.  I've seen MacMUD
and MacMERC, but am looking for MOO.  Any info would be appreciated.
Please e-mail me since I'm not yet subscribed to this list.  I've put
in my request, though.

        Also, if anyone knows of any newer versions of Muddweller (I've
got 1.2) or any other Mac MOO clients, I'd appreciate the info.  Again,
I've seen MacMOOSE, but don't know what this TGE TCP thing is and am
leary of things I don't understand.  :)

Thanks in advance,
Bolie IV

*** ------------------------------ *** ------------------------------ ***
Bolie Calvin Williams IV         Proj. Engnrng, Computers, Electric Mach.
(bolie@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu)        MSME University of Texas, exp. Dec 94
(bolie@io.com)(http://io.com/user/bolie/)  BSME Rice University, May 1993
** -- Hire me! Looking for work in Austin, Houston, or SF-Bay Area. -- **


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 13 Dec 1994 18:25:36
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Date:	Tue, 13 Dec 1994 18:25:36 -0800
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	adams@media.mit.edu (Adam Skwersky)
Subject: Re: Macintosh MOO...

On the topic of Macintosh MOO's :

I am this || close to getting it to run native on the PowerMac. I used the
publically available code for the Mac MOO (thanks guys!) and ported it over
for use on the PowerMac.

_TECHINCAL_MAC_MODE_ON:

The port consisted of changing all Low Memory Globals to use of Global
Access Methods. I also had to convert all the function call-backs to
Universal Proc Ptrs. I had to add more prototypes and the like because
PowerPC compilers are strict.

_MAC_TECHINAL_MODE_OFF:

Here are some extra features I added:
(1) Its not background only-anymore: Actually I had to do this while
debugging the PowerMac port. I wasnt able to send shutdown messages so I
added a menubar with Quit/Shutdown on it so I could shutdown from the menu.
(2) It doesnt freeze up the machine when you do database loading/dumping.
This was easy to implement and you should probably ask the 68K MOO
caretakers to "take care" of this. I did it by adding a few
"YieldToThreads()" in the loading/reading cycle. This brings me to ask: The
powerhouse MOO servers that run on DEC, ALPHAs SUNS, etc, do they let users
log on and change things while the database is dumping? Doesnt the database
editing interfere with the writes?
I wasnt sure whether I should give time to other threads while the database
was dumping.

There are still two problems: Crypt does not seem to work. When I try to
logon on Zen.db that is at ftp.parc.xerox.com "connect Wizard Wizard" it
doesnt work. Crypt does SOMETHING, but for some reason I cannot log on. I
am not quite sure if this is a problem with the MOO, or if its related to
the database. Could someone please explain to how log-on is handled so I
know appropriate place to debug?

Well why dont I use LambdaMOO you ask? That leads me to problem number two.
Database loading/dumping still takes longer than it does for the 68k MOO.
The emulated 68K MOO even runs faster on the PowerMAC than the native MOO
that I compiled. I dont have figures for you, but it took the native
PowerMac MOO 30 minutes to load up LambdaMOO.  It took 45 minutes to dump
it. I did the sensible thing: I ran a profiler on the database-loading to
see where it was spending most of its time. Strangely, it spend nearly
70-80 percent of its time in free(). Well its a known fact that Metrowerks
ANSI libs are slow in terms of memory handling, so I suspect that
significant speed improvements can be achieved by using a better
malloc/free implementation. BTW, the System software for the memory manager
is NATIVE for the PowerMAC. If I could just find some way to use it. Any
idea where I can find a faster malloc/free?

Adam Skwersky

Adam Skwersky
------------------------------------------------------------------
All opinions are my own, and do not reflect those of the Media Lab
or MIT.

530 Beacon St.                                  320 S. Lawrence Ct.
Boston, MA 02215                                Philadelphia, PA 19106
617-536-3683                                    215-923-2224


From someone 13 Dec 1994 18:43:02
Replied: Thu, 15 Dec 94 17:38:52 -0800
Replied: adams@media.mit.edu (Adam Skwersky)
Replied: moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Return-Path: xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC
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Date:	Tue, 13 Dec 1994 18:43:02 -0800
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	adams@media.mit.edu (Adam Skwersky)
Subject: Re: Macintosh MOO...

I made one error in my last post. I said most 70-80% of the time is spend
in "free()". I meant 90% of the time is spend in "myfree()".

About 50% of this comes from calls to myfree() in "free_expr()" and
"free_stml()"

In loading up Zen.db, there are about 150000 calls to myfree(). Does this
sound right?

Adam Skwersky



Adam Skwersky
------------------------------------------------------------------
All opinions are my own, and do not reflect those of the Media Lab
or MIT.

530 Beacon St.                                  320 S. Lawrence Ct.
Boston, MA 02215                                Philadelphia, PA 19106
617-536-3683                                    215-923-2224


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 13 Dec 1994 13:39:15
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From:	Alex Stewart <riche@crl.com>
Message-Id: <199412132139.AA11605@crl3.crl.com>
Subject: Argh!
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Date:	Tue, 13 Dec 1994 13:39:15 -0800
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ARGH!!! SUNOS 5.3 SUCKS!

Sorry, just had to get that out of my system.. I'll go away now.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Alex Stewart - riche@crl.com - Richelieu @ Diversity University MOO
              ftp://ftp.crl.com/users/ro/riche/html/riche.html

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 14 Dec 1994 14:18:02
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Date:	Wed, 14 Dec 1994 14:18:02 -0800
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com, bolie@io.com
From:	grgcombs@mail.utexas.edu (Gregory S. Combs)
Subject: Re: Mac MOO server

>Anyone,
>
>        I'm looking for a MOO server for Macintosh.  I've seen MacMUD
>and MacMERC, but am looking for MOO.  Any info would be appreciated.
>Please e-mail me since I'm not yet subscribed to this list.  I've put
>in my request, though.
you can find it at my homepage (along with an FAQ for it) at
http://www.utexas.edu/~grgcombs.....

--
Gregory S. Combs		grgcombs@mail.utexas.edu
http://www.utexas.edu/~grgcombs
----------------------------
Frater magnus te videt ::::: bortaS bir jablu'DI'reH QaQqu' nay'
PGP fingerprint:
1024/2FEE9AB9 1994/06/11 = 21 27 2F A1 E7 FD 45 FD  29 67 13 9B 8A 04 12 45
Finger grgcombs@bongo.cc.utexas.edu for Public Key.


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 14 Dec 1994 14:58:56
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Date:	Wed, 14 Dec 1994 14:58:56 -0800
To:	adams@media.mit.edu (Adam Skwersky), moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	Allan Crain <allanc@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Macintosh MOO...


>that I compiled. I dont have figures for you, but it took the native
>PowerMac MOO 30 minutes to load up LambdaMOO.  It took 45 minutes to dump
>it. I did the sensible thing: I ran a profiler on the database-loading to

Wow! Only half an hour to load LambdaCore? My LC II takes a little over a
full hour. I just tell it to load and go to school... It finishes when I
come home. :)

I'd really love to get a copy of this when you're finished. My dad is
hoarding a 6100/60 at his office and hopefully my school'll get one some
time next year... I don't suppose you'd be kind enough to spend a year or
two fixing the 68K version, would you? :)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allan Crain | allanc@crl.com | Allan @ WorldMOO (world.sensemedia.net 1234)


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 14 Dec 1994 13:22:27
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Date:	Wed, 14 Dec 1994 13:22:27 -0800
From:	denny@cthulhu.eng.sun.com (Denton Gentry)
Message-Id: <9412142122.AA12843@cthulhu.eng.sun.com>
To:	riche@crl.com
Subject: Re: Argh!
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII

> ARGH!!! SUNOS 5.3 SUCKS!
> 
> Sorry, just had to get that out of my system.. I'll go away now.

  Perhaps if you could be a bit more specific, some of the people on this mailing list could help you with specific problems.
  I'm afraid I can offer nothing to help a general "SunOS 5.3 sucks" sentiment other than to say I'm sorry you feel that way.

							Denny

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 14 Dec 1994 16:51:22
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Date:	Wed, 14 Dec 1994 16:51:22 -0800
From:	Neuromancer <dbliss@franco.csm.uc.edu>
Message-Id: <199412150051.TAA23787@franco.csm.uc.edu>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Argh!

>> ARGH!!! SUNOS 5.3 SUCKS!
> I'm afraid I can offer nothing to help a general "SunOS 5.3 sucks" sentiment

I can... It's called Irix. :P

neuro

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 14 Dec 1994 17:43:54
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From:	Neuromancer <dbliss@franco.csm.uc.edu>
Message-Id: <199412150143.UAA23814@franco.csm.uc.edu>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Argh!


Well, you could always just go with a PC running OS/2. :)

neuro

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 14 Dec 1994 22:29:04
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Subject: Re: Argh!


>ARGH!!! SUNOS 5.3 SUCKS!

So does Sunview on a Sun 3/50 with only 8 megs RAM.

Phantom

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 14 Dec 1994 22:39:15
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To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Argh!


>Well, you could always just go with a PC running OS/2. :)
>
>neuro

Why would you want one of those when you have power macs? :-)

Phantom (a devout Macintosh user)

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 14 Dec 1994 23:11:16
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Subject: Argh!

>| >Well, you could always just go with a PC running OS/2. :)
>| Why would you want one of those when you have power macs? :-)
>Or either, when you could run Linux on a PC and have a real OS? :)

And why would you do that when you can run UNIX from a Mac? :-)

Phantom (still a devout Macintosh user)

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 14 Dec 1994 23:49:43
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Date:	Wed, 14 Dec 1994 23:49:43 -0800
From:	Jay Shepherd <js@crl.com>
To:	Richard Connamacher <connamr@alleg.edu>
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Argh!
In-Reply-To: <9412150711.AA09516@alleg.EDU>
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Can we get the back to Moo Topics??


---------------------
Jay Shepherd
Data Driven Solutions
Atlanta, Georgia


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 15 Dec 1994 04:17:12
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Date:	Thu, 15 Dec 1994 04:17:12 -0800
From:	"Zachary M. Loafman" <zml@metronet.com>
Message-Id: <199412151217.AA07819@metronet.com>
To:	js@crl.com
Cc:	connamr@alleg.edu, moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-Reply-To: Jay Shepherd's message of Wed, 14 Dec 1994 23:49:43 PST <Pine.SUN.3.91.941214234933.7193A-100000@crl9.crl.com>
Subject: Argh!


Yes, let's.

OS's are like religions.. you can't argue them sanely. People will
stand behind their OS to the death rather than listen to reason, or
claim that there's is the only true reason. So let's get back to why
we're here, the discussion of MOOing.

...Zach

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 15 Dec 1994 04:04:29
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Date:	Thu, 15 Dec 1994 04:04:29 -0800
From:	Judy Anderson <yduj@cs.stanford.edu>
Message-Id: <9412151204.AA14781@Xenon.Stanford.EDU>
To:	connamr@alleg.edu
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-Reply-To: Richard Connamacher's message of Wed, 14 Dec 1994 22:29:04 PST <9412150629.AA08179@alleg.EDU>
Subject: Argh!

Can we cut this crap?  This is not a list for you to randomly talk to
your friends about what computers you may be using and their relative
merits.  Thank you.  Do not follow this message up, nor any message in
this thread.

      Judy Anderson yclept yduJ          'yduJ' rhymes with 'fudge'
 yduJ@cs.stanford.edu (personal mail)   yduJ@harlequin.com (work-related)
	Join the League for Programming Freedom, lpf@uunet.uu.net

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 15 Dec 1994 08:40:02
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Date:	Thu, 15 Dec 1994 08:40:02 -0800
To:	Jay Shepherd <js@crl.com>, Richard Connamacher <connamr@alleg.edu>
From:	ash@gn.apc.org (Ashley Drees)
Subject: Re: Argh!
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com

At 23:49 14/12/94 PST, Jay Shepherd wrote:
>Can we get the back to Moo Topics??

Yes; anyone compiled "Moo" for NT?


          Ash...   

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 15 Dec 1994 08:51:09
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From:	ken@odin.stockton.edu (Ken Tompkins)
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To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: WIZ-FAQ

Will someone send me the address for the compiler of the WIZ-FAQ
or will that person (the compiler) send me a copy? Thanks....

Ken Tompkins
Richard Stockton College
BlueMoon

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 15 Dec 1994 09:11:58
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Date:	Thu, 15 Dec 1994 09:11:58 -0800
From:	geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <199412151711.JAA23345@nexsys.nexsys.net>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Newbies needs help
Cc:	doublem@internex.net


Hello All,
	I've been lurking on this list for a while.
	I and a collegue are trying to start-up our own MOO
	starting with the LAMBDAmoo sources and DB.  I've been silent
	for the most part and I have managed to gleen some perls
	of wisdom from your posts.  But it seems like there is just
	sooooo much to know and I get the feeling that the programmer's
	manual is lacking or simply just out of date.  Do you all have
	any advice as to how a newbie can get up to speed?  I am an 
	experienced C, C++ and LISP programmer so new languages don't
	scare me, but I do have a full time job and can't devote 40 hrs
	a week to learning the intricasies of MOO's. Any pointers, advice,
	documents, code, etc. Would be greatfully appreciated.


				Geoff White
				HouseNationMoo

From someone 15 Dec 1994 09:05:58
Replied: Thu, 15 Dec 94 17:42:40 -0800
Replied: Glenn Crocker <glenn@nimbus.som.cwru.edu>
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From:	Glenn Crocker <glenn@nimbus.som.cwru.edu>
Message-Id: <199412151805.AA20772@nimbus.som.cwru.edu>
Subject: Re: Argh!
To:	ash@gn.apc.org (Ashley Drees)
Date:	Thu, 15 Dec 1994 09:05:58 -0800
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>At 23:49 14/12/94 PST, Jay Shepherd wrote:
>>Can we get the back to Moo Topics??
>
>Yes; anyone compiled "Moo" for NT?

Not yet, but I ported TinyMUSH in about half a day.  I was _very_
suprised at how easy it was.  Someone at MicroSoft did a lot of work
to make that easy.

-glenn

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 15 Dec 1994 10:33:26
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From:	Allan Alford <chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Newbies needs help
To:	Geoff White <geoffw@nexsys.net>
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com, doublem@internex.net
In-Reply-To: <199412151711.JAA23345@nexsys.nexsys.net>
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On Thu, 15 Dec 1994, Geoff White wrote:

> 
> Hello All,
> 	I've been lurking on this list for a while.
> 	I and a collegue are trying to start-up our own MOO
> 	starting with the LAMBDAmoo sources and DB.  I've been silent
> 	for the most part and I have managed to gleen some perls
> 	of wisdom from your posts.  But it seems like there is just
> 	sooooo much to know and I get the feeling that the programmer's
> 	manual is lacking or simply just out of date.  Do you all have
> 	any advice as to how a newbie can get up to speed?  I am an 
> 	experienced C, C++ and LISP programmer so new languages don't
> 	scare me, but I do have a full time job and can't devote 40 hrs
> 	a week to learning the intricasies of MOO's. Any pointers, advice,
> 	documents, code, etc. Would be greatfully appreciated.
> 
> 				Geoff White
> 				HouseNationMoo

It may be just as laborious and time-consuming for you, but I've logged the
MOO programming classes I'm teaching at DU and put them on my gopher:

actlab.rtf.utexas.edu /MUD/MOO/DU

It's a step-by-step approach, looking at MOO as an environment first.

It's not useful for wizard stuff, however.  You ought to get the
Newbie Wiz FAQ as well.

	chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu
<<< "Hacking today for a better tomorrow..." >>>
	chiphead@eden.com


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 15 Dec 1994 11:40:50
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Date:	Thu, 15 Dec 1994 11:40:50 -0800
From:	geoffw@nexsys.net (Geoff White)
Message-Id: <199412151940.LAA23564@nexsys.nexsys.net>
To:	chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Newbies needs help
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com, doublem@internex.net

.
> 
> It's not useful for wizard stuff, however.  You ought to get the
> Newbie Wiz FAQ as well.
> 
> 	chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu
> <<< "Hacking today for a better tomorrow..." >>>
> 	chiphead@eden.com

Where does one get this treatise?

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 15 Dec 1994 11:47:19
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To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	ebasta@acns.fsu.edu (Beth Basta)
Subject: multiple objects with same name

Hello,

If I had two (or even three) objects that all had the same name or alias,
how would I be able to tell the MOO which one to get, drop, or look at
WITHOUT using an object #.

For example:

In my inventory I have two Red Sofa's.  I want to drop the second one in my
inventory and keep the first one.  If I could not see the object #s on
these sofas, how do I drop the second one?  Is it possible?

In other M**s the player can type drop 2.sofa or drop sofa 2 or some
combination of sofa and the number 2.  Can this be done with existing code
(in the lambdacore) or do I have to code it from scratch?  Just trying not
to 'reinvent the wheel'.

Thanks

Beth
Four Seasons MOO
We NEED Builders!
e-mail me if interested.


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 15 Dec 1994 17:38:51
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To:	adams@media.mit.edu (Adam Skwersky)
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Subject: Re: Macintosh MOO... 
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Date:	Thu, 15 Dec 1994 17:38:51 -0800
Sender: Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
From:	Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Message-Id: <94Dec15.173900pst.162695@mu.parc.xerox.com>

Adam Skwersky writes:
> I made one error in my last post. I said most 70-80% of the time is spend
> in "free()". I meant 90% of the time is spend in "myfree()".
> 
> About 50% of this comes from calls to myfree() in "free_expr()" and
> "free_stml()"
> 
> In loading up Zen.db, there are about 150000 calls to myfree(). Does this
> sound right?

Yes.  The server does a lot of allocation and freeing during both loading and 
dumping, as it either parses source code into trees and generates bytecodes or 
else decompiles bytecodes into trees and pretty-prints source code, 
respectively.  In both of these cases, the tree nodes are being allocated and 
then freed almost immediately, after their use is done.

	Pavel

From someone 15 Dec 1994 18:07:49
Replied: Wed, 21 Dec 94 17:44:18 -0800
Replied: grgcombs@mail.utexas.edu (Gregory S. Combs)
Replied: moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
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Date:	Thu, 15 Dec 1994 18:07:49 -0800
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	grgcombs@mail.utexas.edu (Gregory S. Combs)
Subject: Re: Macintosh MOO...


>
>Yes.  The server does a lot of allocation and freeing during both loading and
>dumping, as it either parses source code into trees and generates bytecodes or
>else decompiles bytecodes into trees and pretty-prints source code,
>respectively.  In both of these cases, the tree nodes are being allocated and
>then freed almost immediately, after their use is done.

is there a way to allocate these trees, then instead of disposing then
re-allocating them, is it possible to allocate once, then re-use those
trees, and if you run out then allocate more?

--->   Frater magnus te videt.  <---
****************************
Gregory S. Combs	----------> grgcombs@mail.utexas.edu
Learning Technology Center -->University of Texas at Austin

finger <grgcombs@bongo.cc.utexas.edu> for PGP Signature
PGP fingerprint:								
pub  1024/2FEE9AB9 1994/06/11 Gregory S. Combs <grgcombs@mail.utexas.edu>
          Key fingerprint =  21 27 2F A1 E7 FD 45 FD  29 67 13 9B 8A 04 12 45




From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 16 Dec 1994 02:09:22
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Date:	Fri, 16 Dec 1994 02:09:22 -0800
To:	Glenn Crocker <glenn@nimbus.som.cwru.edu>
From:	ash@gn.apc.org (Ashley Drees)
Subject: Re: Argh!
Cc:	js@crl.com, connamr@alleg.edu, moo-cows@parc.xerox.com

>Not yet, but I ported TinyMUSH in about half a day.  I was _very_
>suprised at how easy it was.  Someone at MicroSoft did a lot of work
>to make that easy.

I'm just getting to grips with NT and wanted to try my hand at running a
Moo, but what is TinyMUSH, and can I play with it somewhere (I.e have you it
running on NT and available on the internet?).



          Ash...   

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 16 Dec 1994 04:35:55
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From:	Schneider Daniel <schneide@divsun.unige.ch>
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To:	"(Geoff White)" <geoffw@nexsys.net>
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-Reply-To: <199412151711.JAA23345@nexsys.nexsys.net>
Subject: Re: Newbies needs help

I am a bloody beginner too, and those things gave me some help:

(1) 2 short texts for beginners
    /documentation/MUD/MOO/The-Cow-ate-my-Brain.text
   /documentation/MUD/MOO/Moo-tutorial.text

(2) The MOO-Wiz FAQ (explains how to use @dump which dumps
code of an object so you see examples..)

(3) The Lambda Tapes (can be found at Media MOO or DUM or EON

... well this is just for starting

 - Daniel
PS: (1) and (2).. can be found on my ftp/www server too

Daniel K.Schneider, TECFA (Educational Technologies and Learning)
Faculte de Psychologie et des Sciences de l'Education, University of Geneva,
9 route de Drize, 1227 Carouge(Switzerland),
Phone: (..41) 22 705 9694, Fax: (..41) 22 342 89 24

Internet: schneide@divsun.unige.ch  (and various national nets)
X400:     S=schneide;OU=divsun;O=unige;PRMD=switch;ADMD=arcom;C=ch/@gate.unige.ch
www:      http://tecfa.unige.ch/ {tecfa/general/tecfa-people/schneider.html}

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 16 Dec 1994 07:28:37
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Date:	Fri, 16 Dec 1994 07:28:37 -0800
From:	Quinn <quinn@access.mountain.net>
Message-Id: <199412161528.KAA28420@Access.Mountain.Net>
To:	MOO-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Linux/BSDI



The powers which sponsor our MOO are contemplating obtaining a dedicated
 machine for our use.  Yeeeha!  Now, my question to all you knowledgable
 folks is: Will it be better or worse than what we have now?

Here's a snippet of ls and ps showing current database size on disk and
 in memory:

-rw-r--r--  1 quinn  guest  5238270 Dec 16 09:00 db.119

USER       PID %CPU %MEM   VSZ  RSS TT  STAT STARTED       TIME COMMAND
quinn     5046 65.8  0.0 13720 7768 p0- RN    7:25AM   61:20.11 ./moo

We are currently on a 386-40 w/16M RAM and 128k cache, running BSDI.

The new machine would be a 486-25 with the same RAM and cache, but it
 would be running Linux.

Now, from the obvious speed perspective, it looks as if we'd be losing
 out by about 15MHZ.  BUT, I'm hoping the new OS will give us a lift.

I was under the impression that a MOO was supposed to consume ~1.8 times
 its size on disk in RAM.  Ours is about 4.1M, but is consuming 13.3!

Does anyone out there have any comments on the differences between 
 running a MOO on BSDI and on Linux?  Do you think I'll ultimately
 win here, or am I just getting shafted with a lower CPU?

This will be dedicated machine, so we'll at least not be bothered by
 abrupt shutdowns and competing processes.

Thanks for any input you can offer.

-Quinn

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 16 Dec 1994 07:12:19
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From:	Glenn Crocker <glenn@nimbus.som.cwru.edu>
Message-Id: <199412161612.AA24083@nimbus.som.cwru.edu>
Subject: Re: Argh!
To:	ash@gn.apc.org (Ashley Drees)
Date:	Fri, 16 Dec 1994 07:12:19 -0800
Cc:	glenn@nimbus.som.cwru.edu, js@crl.com, connamr@alleg.edu,
	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-Reply-To: <9412161012.AB11990@gn.apc.org>; from "Ashley Drees" at Dec 16, 94 10:09 am
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>I'm just getting to grips with NT and wanted to try my hand at running a
>Moo, but what is TinyMUSH,

(Sorry, MOO loyalists:)

TinyMUSH is one of the other MU* servers.  It has a wimpy extension
language, which is easy to use for wimpy programs, but impossible for
complex stuff.  I ported it because I'm more familiar with it (having
done the 2.0 release, eons ago), but the networking stuff should be
_very_ similar to MOO.

>and can I play with it somewhere (I.e have you it
>running on NT and available on the internet?).

Nahhh, NT crashes too much to run a public MU* server.  It's mainly
intended for people who have lame net connections who want to work on
in-MU* code.  They run a tiny local server, connect to it via local
WinSock, etc.  If you just want to look at TinyMUSH, try TinyCWRU:
caisr2.cwru.edu 4201, 129.22.24.22 4201.

Actually, since MOO has a console mode, it might be even easier to
port to NT.  You could just ignore the networking code altogether for
a first cut.  You could even use POSIX mode to build it.

A MOO deity could definitely do it in half a day.  (Unfortunately, MOO
deities seldom have time for NT ports, etc.  I've found that being
laid off _really_ helps your server development time, for future
reference ;-)

-glenn

From someone 16 Dec 1994 09:20:20
Replied: Wed, 21 Dec 94 17:57:18 -0800
Replied: Allan Alford <chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu>
Replied: Quinn <quinn@access.mountain.net>
Replied: MOO-cows@parc.xerox.com
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Date:	Fri, 16 Dec 1994 09:20:20 -0800
From:	Allan Alford <chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Linux/BSDI
To:	Quinn <quinn@access.mountain.net>
Cc:	MOO-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-Reply-To: <199412161528.KAA28420@Access.Mountain.Net>
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On Fri, 16 Dec 1994, Quinn wrote:

> I was under the impression that a MOO was supposed to consume ~1.8 times
>  its size on disk in RAM.  Ours is about 4.1M, but is consuming 13.3!

Quinn: At checkpoint on a linux box, Point MOOt went up to more like
2.8 or 2.9 times the db size on the RAM.  This was with version 1.7.7.

We retrograded to 1.7.5, and got that down to about 2.4 to 2.5.

> Does anyone out there have any comments on the differences between 
>  running a MOO on BSDI and on Linux?  Do you think I'll ultimately
>  win here, or am I just getting shafted with a lower CPU?

I'd say stick with the faster machine, and put BSDi on it.  You already
know the compiling tricks to make MOO work on BSDi.  Look at the uptime
for boths OSs.  A Lambdacore db on a BSDi machine with NO other activity
on it puts the CPU usage around .3 or .4 if I remember correctly.

(That was with JUST me logged in.)  On the Point MOOt box (same hardware
specs as that BSDi box!) I get about 1.01 or so...

Linux sucks, man.  It's a great hobby OS, but don't expect any kind of
substantial benchmarks when heavy activity gets put on it.

	chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu
<<< "Hacking today for a better tomorrow..." >>>
	chiphead@eden.com


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 16 Dec 1994 10:51:46
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Date:	Fri, 16 Dec 1994 10:51:46 -0800
From:	bild@io.com (Bill  Drury )
Subject: Linux & MOO
To:	MOO-Cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <199412161851.MAA10773@pentagon.io.com>


Urm, there ARE no manual tweaks to compile MOO with linuthat I have ever had
to do ... compiling wth the Slackware 2.0.0 release gcc (whatever that is)
I followed the README exactly and did not need to edit any c file or
the Makefile.  It works fine as far as I have ever been able to see,
although it's true that I am not running 100 players at a time.

Linux does not suck, sorry. :)  We use it at commercial sites to do
simultaneous mail handling and IP forwarding for small networks over
slip.  Stock kernel (1.0.9), no tweaks.

One limitation of this kernel is that the socket table in the tcp driver
only allocates spece for 128 simultaneous sockets.  If you want more,
you have to edit the source and recompile the kernel, not that tough but
it does require some rudimentary knowledge of C.

Linux, as one person on #linux just said, is not a `friendly' operating
system, that is, it is not loaded with foolproofing cruft, so you should
know your shit or have someone handy who does if you want to use it for
anything exotic.  I would not classify this as exotic unless you are an
absolute unix dolt.

bild

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 16 Dec 1994 11:11:47
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Date:	Fri, 16 Dec 1994 11:11:47 -0800
From:	Allan Alford <chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu>
Subject: That MOO-Cows-Ate-My-Brain File...
To:	MOO Cows <moo-cows.parc@xerox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9412161349.A2887-0100000@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu>


Accidentally deleted the post.  Where's that one located?
Just went over to parcftp and didn't see it. :(

Either I'm going blind, or it's elsewhere...

Thanks.

	chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu
<<< "Hacking today for a better tomorrow..." >>>
	chiphead@eden.com


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 16 Dec 1994 11:24:42
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Date:	Fri, 16 Dec 1994 11:24:42 -0800
From:	Allan Alford <chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Linux & MOO
In-Reply-to: <199412161851.MAA10773@pentagon.io.com>
To:	Bill Drury <bild@io.com>
cc:	MOO-Cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9412161353.A2887-0100000@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu>

On Fri, 16 Dec 1994, Bill Drury wrote:

> 
> Urm, there ARE no manual tweaks to compile MOO with linuthat I have ever had
> to do ... compiling wth the Slackware 2.0.0 release gcc (whatever that is)
> I followed the README exactly and did not need to edit any c file or
> the Makefile.  It works fine as far as I have ever been able to see,
> although it's true that I am not running 100 players at a time.

I didn't think I said linux did require tweaking.  I KNOW BSDi does, though.

> Linux does not suck, sorry. :)  We use it at commercial sites to do
> simultaneous mail handling and IP forwarding for small networks over
> slip.  Stock kernel (1.0.9), no tweaks.

I had the opportunity to work this summer with some VERY skilled
sys-admins on a commerical Internet providing site.  We used linux
on both systems on that network, compiled all of the applications
(many with a bit of tweaking), and got everything working properly.
Linux was my suggestion, and we used a Slackware kernel.
We also had a MOO on one of those systems.  Later we upgraded both 
systems to BSDi - against my wishes.

The benchmarks on both systems for both general purposes AND for MOO
improved substantially.  The MOO box at the time was mostly dedicated,
and I ran the MOO benchmarks when nothing else was happening on
that particular system.

I also had the opportunity of running another MOO on another linux
system with the same hardware specs as the first MOO box...

I don't doubt or deny that linux is capable of doing everything that
a commerical system does, with a bit of tweaking.

I do deny that it does it as efficiently.

The differences when the load average is low are not that significant.
However, when you start piling the tasks on, suddenly they leap out at
you.  I was the one at this company who originally pushed for linux
(Slackware), and it took them a long time to convince me that BSDi would
help us out.  Now I'm a firm believer.

BSDi is more efficient in the way it manages tasks, and in the way it
calls the CPU to permform.  If you are anticipating a substantial user 
base, you are going to get better performance out of BSDi.

	chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu
<<< "Hacking today for a better tomorrow..." >>>
	chiphead@eden.com


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 16 Dec 1994 11:38:26
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Date:	Fri, 16 Dec 1994 11:38:26 -0800
From:	Steven Banick <sbanick@orbital.ccinet.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: Linux/BSDI
To:	Allan Alford <chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu>
cc:	MOO-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9412161144.A793-0100000@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9412161220.B12383-0100000@orbital.ccinet.ab.ca>
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On Fri, 16 Dec 1994, Allan Alford wrote:

> I'd say stick with the faster machine, and put BSDi on it.  You already
> know the compiling tricks to make MOO work on BSDi.  Look at the uptime
> for boths OSs.  A Lambdacore db on a BSDi machine with NO other activity
> on it puts the CPU usage around .3 or .4 if I remember correctly.
> 
> (That was with JUST me logged in.)  On the Point MOOt box (same hardware
> specs as that BSDi box!) I get about 1.01 or so...
> 
> Linux sucks, man.  It's a great hobby OS, but don't expect any kind of
> substantial benchmarks when heavy activity gets put on it.

Actually, I wouldn't agree with that. I've been running both a MOO 
(1.7.8p4) with a relatively small db (about 3Mb), under full Xwindows 
while still servicing several dial-in lines and an internet connection, 
all on a 486DX266 w/16Mb RAM, with no real problems, and very good 
performance. First with kernel 1.1.11 I believe, and now 1.1.59. As soon 
as I put in the 8Mb additional RAM (making 16), everything ran just spiffy...

Steven Banick [sbanick@orbital.ccinet.ab.ca] Director: Orbital OnLine Services
             Metropolitan Edmonton and Region Internet Services
                         http://orbital.ccinet.ab.ca

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 16 Dec 1994 13:10:56
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Date:	Fri, 16 Dec 1994 13:10:56 -0800
From:	Kenny Root <kenny@freak.org>
To:	Allan Alford <chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu>
cc:	Quinn <quinn@access.mountain.net>, MOO-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Linux/BSDI
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9412161144.A793-0100000@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.941216150451.5419A-100000@Freak.ORG>
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On Fri, 16 Dec 1994, Allan Alford wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Dec 1994, Quinn wrote:
> > I was under the impression that a MOO was supposed to consume ~1.8 times
> >  its size on disk in RAM.  Ours is about 4.1M, but is consuming 13.3!
> Quinn: At checkpoint on a linux box, Point MOOt went up to more like
> 2.8 or 2.9 times the db size on the RAM.  This was with version 1.7.7.

That is extremely odd.  I run Linux 1.1.72 and my MOO has a 2341498 byte 
database and currently we are taking up 3420k of RAM.
 
> We retrograded to 1.7.5, and got that down to about 2.4 to 2.5.

Perhaps you should go up to the current server..

> I'd say stick with the faster machine, and put BSDi on it.  You already
> know the compiling tricks to make MOO work on BSDi.  Look at the uptime
> for boths OSs.  A Lambdacore db on a BSDi machine with NO other activity
> on it puts the CPU usage around .3 or .4 if I remember correctly.

Unfortunately, the MOO core I run takes up an average of 3% of the CPU 
(It's the JHCore.)

> Linux sucks, man.  It's a great hobby OS, but don't expect any kind of
> substantial benchmarks when heavy activity gets put on it.

I disagree here.  I have gotten better results out of it than any other 
OS run on this CPU.  Perhaps you are comparing faster machines with a 386 
model?

---
Kenny Root
CaseusVeloxMOO - Freak.ORG 7777

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 16 Dec 1994 21:54:42
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Date:	Fri, 16 Dec 1994 21:54:42 -0800
From:	"Wayne E. Bouchard" <WEB@hacks.arizona.edu>
Subject: RE: Linux/BSDI
To:	quinn@access.mountain.net
cc:	MOO-COWS.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <941216225442.208026fa@HACKS.Arizona.EDU>

> Does anyone out there have any comments on the differences between 
>  running a MOO on BSDI and on Linux?  Do you think I'll ultimately
>  win here, or am I just getting shafted with a lower CPU?


I am not about to get into what could be an ugly flame war on why Linux 
sucks but Having worked on both, I think that when you get your new BSDI 
machine,you'll find that it is a fairly stable, well suppoerted operating 
system just as POSIX compliantt (if not more so) than Linux. A friend of 
mine runs a computer consulting service and is a local internet provider. 
He has very few disagreements with BSDI (Which is what his general access 
service is based on) and has had very few problems.

So give it a shot.. If worst comes to worst, you can get a refund on the OS 
and stick Linux on it.

-Wayne Bouchard (aka Sadric)

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 17 Dec 1994 07:23:06
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Date:	Sat, 17 Dec 1994 07:23:06 -0800
From:	Quinn <quinn@access.mountain.net>
Subject: RE: Linux/BSDI
To:	quinn@access.mountain.net, WEB@hacks.arizona.edu
cc:	MOO-COWS.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <199412171523.KAA10109@Access.Mountain.Net>

But aren't you guys listening?  I'm not asking if BSDI has any
 problems --I KNOW it does.

One obscure bug is that I can't do:

while (1)
 ...
endwhile

loops, else the variables inside them are never freed, causing the
 process size to go UP UP UP.

And, as I mentioned in the original post, the process size is
 almost THREE TIMES the disk size.

It doesn't look like I'm getting any definitive answers as to whether
 I'll have more or less trouble with Linux, just widely varying mileage.

Thanks for the input, regardless.  And do please continue--ESPECIALLY
 PEOPLE WITH GOOD NEWS.

-Quinn

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 17 Dec 1994 13:32:15
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Date:	Sat, 17 Dec 1994 13:32:15 -0800
From:	Allan Alford <chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu>
Subject: Linux/BSD flame war and TEXT FILES FOR MOO HELP
To:	MOO Cows <moo-cows.parc@xerox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9412171557.A16449-0100000@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu>


That last suggestion re: just try BSD and see if you like it
 was a good one.  Sorry if I started a flame war there...

Someone posted (and I stupidly deleted the message!) in response
to a question about useful MOO documents about a text file called:

MOO-Cows-Ate-My-Brain.txt (or something like that!).

Where is that file available?  I didn't see it at parcftp and would
like to put it on my gopher...

Thanks.

	chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu
<<< "Hacking today for a better tomorrow..." >>>
	chiphead@eden.com


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 17 Dec 1994 17:28:15
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Date:	Sat, 17 Dec 1994 17:28:15 -0800
From:	"David Morris" <bweaver@worf.infonet.net>
Subject: Re: Linux/BSD flame war and TEXT FILES FOR MOO HELP
In-Reply-to: "Your message of \"Sat, 17 Dec 94 13:32:15 PST.\"
             <Pine.3.89.9412171557.A16449-0100000@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu>tion: I"
To:	Allan Alford <chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu>
cc:	MOO Cows <moo-cows.parc@xerox.com>
Message-ID: <199412180128.TAA03762@worf.infonet.net>

Chip's message dated: Sat, 17 Dec 94 13:32:15 PST
<[Someone posted (and I stupidly deleted the message!) in response
<[to a question about useful MOO documents about a text file called:
<[
<[MOO-Cows-Ate-My-Brain.txt (or something like that!).

I looked back at that message and it wasn't clear, but through digging I 
found that and some other files at:

    ftp://tecfa.unige.ch/pub/documentation/MUD/MOO/

--
+-+ David Morris  bweaver@worf.infonet.net  Green Mountain, Iowa +---------+
|     Do you have a body? Don't sit on the porch!                          |
|     Go out and walk in the rain!                - Kabir                  |
+-------Disclaimer: My computer is not responsible for my mistakes.--------+

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 18 Dec 1994 08:30:49
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Date:	Sun, 18 Dec 1994 08:30:49 -0800
From:	Schneider Daniel <schneide@divsun.unige.ch>
Subject: Re: That MOO-Cows-Ate-My-Brain File...
In-Reply-to: <Pine.3.89.9412161349.A2887-0100000@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu>
To:	Allan Alford <chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu>
cc:	MOO Cows <moo-cows.parc@xerox.com>
Message-ID: <1748*/S=schneide/OU=divsun/O=unige/PRMD=switch/ADMD=arcom/C=ch/@MHS>

> 
> 
> Accidentally deleted the post.  Where's that one located?
> Just went over to parcftp and didn't see it. :(
> 
> Either I'm going blind, or it's elsewhere...
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 	chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu
> <<< "Hacking today for a better tomorrow..." >>>
> 	chiphead@eden.com

No, it *IS* at Parcftp, but under some meaningless name (don't ask
me where!).
Anyhow, take it from my place:

   ftp://tecfa.unige.ch/pub/documentation/MUD/MOO/

BTW, I also recently ask the author of that paper if he did
a new version: Answer is "NO" (because he changed his line of work)

  - greetings  - Daniel

Daniel K.Schneider, TECFA (Educational Technologies and Learning)
Faculte de Psychologie et des Sciences de l'Education, University of Geneva,
9 route de Drize, 1227 Carouge(Switzerland),
Phone: (..41) 22 705 9694, Fax: (..41) 22 342 89 24

Internet: schneide@divsun.unige.ch  (and various national nets)
X400:     S=schneide;OU=divsun;O=unige;PRMD=switch;ADMD=arcom;C=ch/@gate.unige.ch
www:      http://tecfa.unige.ch/ {tecfa/general/tecfa-people/schneider.html}
MOO:      under construction! .... tecfamoo.unige.ch 7777 (aka Daniel)

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 19 Dec 1994 10:45:19
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Date:	Mon, 19 Dec 1994 10:45:19 -0800
From:	aa902@cleveland.freenet.edu (David Carlin)
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Problems with $network:raw_sendmail
Reply-To: aa902@cleveland.freenet.edu (David Carlin)

Hello!

	I've been trying to get @mail-options +netmail to work on my moo
(NecroMOO - cyberion.musenet.org 4242) and I always get this msg:

Mail sending failed: 503 Need MAIL before RCPT

I then get both an emailed and @mail copy of the msg.  Here is an example
message, It looks the headers are all in the right order:

HELO cyberion.musenet.org
MAIL FROM:<aa902@po.cwru.edu>
RCPT TO:<aa902@po.cwru.edu>
DATA
Date: Mon Dec 19 13:30:15 1994 EST
From: aa902@po.cwru.edu (the wondering zephyr/David Carlin)
To: aa902@po.cwru.edu
Subject: Forwarded: I was trying to relog thru the library...
X-Mail-Agent: NecroMOO (cyberion.musenet.org 4242)
Original-date: Mon Dec 19 13:30:15 1994 EST
Original-From: Mad_Hatter (#83)
Original-To: Zephyr (#80)
Reply-To: aa732@po.cwru.edu (Mad Hatter/Joe Navratil)

Sorry it took me so long to do this.

 -Joe / MH
.
QUIT


Any ideas?  Another moo, DarkMOO (camelot.org 9999) started having the
problem recently.

Thanks!

          -David


--
David Carlin | aa902@po.cwru.edu | Home page: http://www.musenet.org/~zephyr
 aka Zephyr  |  Cleveland, Ohio  |-------------------------------------------
---------------------------------| Co-Sysop of The Cleveland Free-Net's
St. Ignatius High School C/o '97 | Multi-User Virtual Reality Sig (go mus)    

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 19 Dec 1994 16:39:14
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Date:	Mon, 19 Dec 1994 16:39:14 -0800
From:	asb@media.mit.edu
Subject: error in match() ?
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412200039.AA21156@media.mit.edu>


I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong or if there's an error in match()...
I'm trying to find if the variable ref[1] has a . in it.  So I'm doing a match
on the string "\"the die stops on \"" with the match string "%."  It's coming
back with a match starting on character 21 when the string is only 20 or 18
characters long, depending on how the \" gets counted (something that always
confuses me!), and there's no . in it.

Here are the relevant lines of code (the calls to trace_msg just print out
the required info, if the function is traced):

$debug_utils:trace_msg("Ref[1]: ", ref[1]);
if (ref && (pos = match(ref[1], "%.")))
$debug_utils:trace_msg("Match result: ", pos);

Here's the output:

#145:find_propref_object: Ref[1]: "The die stops on "
#t# #145:find_propref_object: Match result: {21, 21, {{0, -1}, {0, -1}, {0,
-1}, {0, -1}, {0, -1}, {0, -1}, {0, -1}, {0, -1}, {0, -1}}, "\"The die stops on
\""}

This isn't right, is it?
Or am I confused?

This is being run on a Dec Alpha running OSF/1 V2.0 and MOO 1.7.8p4 

-- Amy

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 19 Dec 1994 18:27:46
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Date:	Mon, 19 Dec 1994 18:27:46 -0800
From:	Jeremy Cooper <jeremy@crl.com>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: error in match() ?
In-Reply-To: <9412200039.AA21156@media.mit.edu>
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Yes, there is an error in match().  It's not your fault.  Believe me, I 
know.  About 4 months ago this same problem confused the HECK out of me.  
It almost seems totally random.

I believe Pavel did admit there was a problem also.
- Jeremy
                   .  _  _  .  _ ___ _  .  _
===-|)/\\/|V|/\/\ /_\|_|(_)/_\|_|\_/(_)/_\|_| Stop by for an excursion  -===
===-|)||/ | |\/\/ telnet moo.crl.com 8888 (_) into the Virtual Bay Area!-===


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 19 Dec 1994 18:35:50
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From:	Alex Stewart <riche@crl.com>
Message-Id: <199412200235.AA14531@crl4.crl.com>
Subject: Re: Problems with $network:raw_sendmail
To:	aa902@cleveland.freenet.edu
Date:	Mon, 19 Dec 1994 18:35:50 -0800
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-Reply-To: <199412191845.NAA14640@roo.INS.CWRU.Edu> from "David Carlin" at Dec 19, 94 10:45:19 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
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> 	I've been trying to get @mail-options +netmail to work on my moo
> (NecroMOO - cyberion.musenet.org 4242) and I always get this msg:
> 
> Mail sending failed: 503 Need MAIL before RCPT
> 
> I then get both an emailed and @mail copy of the msg.  Here is an example
> message, It looks the headers are all in the right order:

This sounds like the same problem I posted a fix for just a little bit ago
(which appears to be a bug in the Solaris (SunOS 5.x) sendmail daemon).  I
would strongly encourage everyone to make the following change even if you
don't have this problem anyway, as it makes the MOO's sendmail routines more
technically compliant with the SMTP spec, will avoid potential problems in the
future, and is a very simple change to make (it's really only a side-effect
that this avoids the 503 bug, but it does that too):

Edit $network:raw_sendmail and change the following (line 48):

    if (!index("23", line[1]))

to:

    if (line[4] == "-")
    elseif (!index("23", line[1]))

BTW, I'm assuming your maildrop is running Solaris because that's the only
place I've heard of this 503 thing popping up..  If it's not but you are
getting the 503 problem, please let me know (just curious), and lemme know if
this fix deals with it or not.

-R
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Alex Stewart - riche@crl.com - Richelieu @ Diversity University MOO
              ftp://ftp.crl.com/users/ro/riche/html/riche.html

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 19 Dec 1994 18:47:50
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Date:	Mon, 19 Dec 1994 18:47:50 -0800
From:	ken@odin.stockton.edu (Ken Tompkins)
Message-Id: <9412200247.AA12360@odin.stockton.edu>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com


Can someone tell me the name of the property that sets the room
where users enter as they login? Isn't it something on $player_start?
I can't find it and need a bit of help; answer direct.

ken tompkins
bluemoon

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 19 Dec 1994 19:35:41
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To:	MOO-Cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: [franl@centerline.com: Bug in LambdaCore #15:length_date_gt]
Date:	Mon, 19 Dec 1994 19:35:41 -0800
Sender: Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
From:	Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Message-Id: <94Dec19.193554pst.162706@mu.parc.xerox.com>


------- Forwarded Message
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 94 14:57:18 -0800
From: franl@centerline.com

I've found a bug in the LambdaCore MOO-code for the verb
#15:length_date_gt, which is used by commands such as @subscribe.  The
bug is the subscripting of this.messages on line 3:

#15:length_date_gt   this none this
 1:  if (this:ok(caller, caller_perms()))
 2:    date = args[1];
 3:    return this.last_msg_date <= date ? 0 | this.messages[2] - this._mgr:fin
d_ord(this.messages, args[1], "_lt_msgdate");
 4:  else
 5:    return E_PERM;
 6:  endif

The above verb code will get a range error on line 3 if #18.messages
is a list with less than two elements, which happens when there are no
messages in #18, the Player-Creation Log.  This is typical when a
LambdaCore-based MOO is brand new.

The fix seems to be to change the above verb code to this:

#15:length_date_gt   this none this
 1:  if (this:ok(caller, caller_perms()))
 2:    date = args[1];
 3:    if (length(this.messages) < 2)
 4:      return 0;
 5:    endif
 6:    return this.last_msg_date <= date ? 0 | this.messages[2] - this._mgr:fin
d_ord(this.messages, args[1], "_lt_msgdate");
 7:  else
 8:    return E_PERM;
 9:  endif

Hope this helps.  Please let me know if you need any additional
information.
- --
Fran Litterio                   franl@centerline.com (617-498-3255)
CenterLine Software             http://draco.centerline.com:8080/~franl/
Cambridge, MA, USA 02138-1110   PGP public key id: 1270EA1D

------- End of Forwarded Message

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 19 Dec 1994 20:00:51
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Date:	Mon, 19 Dec 1994 20:00:51 -0800
From:	"John Towell Ph.D." <m50jft1@hayek.cob.niu.edu>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: #0.player_start
In-Reply-to: "<9412200247.AA12360@odin.stockton.edu>; from \"Ken Tompkins\" at Dec 19, 94 6:47 pm--
Message-Id: <94Dec19.200217pst."14536(2)"@alpha.xerox.com>

	-"
To: ken@odin.stockton.EDU
cc: moo-cows.PARC@Xerox.com
Message-ID: <199412200400.AA22226@hayek.cob.niu.edu>

> 
> 
> Can someone tell me the name of the property that sets the room
> where users enter as they login? Isn't it something on $player_start?
> I can't find it and need a bit of help; answer direct.
> 
> ken tompkins
> bluemoon
> 
> 
Gee - I think I know this one :)

It's #0.player_start


John Towell, Ph.D.
Post-doc: Informatics
Northern Illinois University
m50jft1@hayek.cob.niu.edu
BioMOO Administrator (aka WatsonCrick)
bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il 8888
http://bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il:70

From research.microsoft.com!rfc 19 Dec 1994 20:57:38
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To:	Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Cc:	MOO-Cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: [franl@centerline.com: Bug in LambdaCore #15:length_date_gt] 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 19 Dec 1994 19:35:41 PST."
             <94Dec19.193554pst.162706@mu.parc.xerox.com> 
Date:	Mon, 19 Dec 1994 20:57:38 -0800
From:	Roger Crew <rfc@research.microsoft.com>

The bug is actually in $new_player_log:init_for_core (now fixed on Lambda) 
which left things in a bad state.  .last_msg_date should never be non-zero
if there aren't any messages.

On a fresh LambdaCore you can do

  ;$new_player_log.last_msg_date = 0

Alternatively, you can just create a player and it'll fix itself.
 

For those of you who care about the :init_for_core code

@program $new_player_log:init_for_core
if (caller_perms().wizard)
  pass();
  "this:rm_message_seq({1, 1 + this:length_all_msgs()})";
  "this:expunge_rmm()";
  for p in (properties(this))
    $command_utils:suspend_if_needed(0);
    if (p && (p[1] == " "))
      delete_property(this, p);
    endif
  endfor
  this.messages = this.messages_going = {};
  this._genprop = "";
  this:_fix_last_msg_date();
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  this.mail_forward = {player, this};
  this.mail_notify = {player};
  for p in ({"moderator_forward", "writers", "readers", "expire_period", "last_used_time"})
    this.(p) = $mail_recipient.(p);
  endfor
  this.moderated = 1;
else
  return E_PERM;
endif
..

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 20 Dec 1994 07:13:22
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 20 Dec 1994 09:13:22 -0600 (CST)
Date:	Tue, 20 Dec 1994 07:13:22 -0800
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From:	bolie@io.com (Bolie Williams IV)
Subject: Mac MOO Server
X-Sender: bolie@utxsvs.cc.utexas.edu
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
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First, I'd like to think everyone who responded to my question
about the Mac MOO server.  I found it easily and was able to
download it.  Now it crashes my mac (Unimplemented Trap).

I was wondering if anyone knew of any extensions it conflicts
with.  I've got a Centris 610 (LC040) with 8 MB of ram and
RamDoubler.  I was trying to run it with the latest version
of LambdaCore, with the creator set to MOO and I dropped it
into the MOO Server icon.  If not, then I'll try and figure
out which one it is and start the list.  :)

Thanks,
Bolie IV

*** ------------------------------ *** ------------------------------ ***
Bolie Calvin Williams IV         Proj. Engnrng, Computers, Electric Mach.
(bolie@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu)        MSME University of Texas, exp. Dec 94
(bolie@io.com)(http://io.com/user/bolie/)  BSME Rice University, May 1993
** -- Hire me! Looking for work in Austin, Houston, or SF-Bay Area. -- **


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 20 Dec 1994 08:29:02
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To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	kcary@pepperdine.edu (Kim Cary)
Subject: determining start place at login (was Re: #0.player_start)

At 8:00 PM 12/19/94, John Towell Ph.D. wrote:
>        -"
>To: ken@odin.stockton.EDU
...
>> Can someone tell me the name of the property that sets the room
>> where users enter as they login? Isn't it something on $player_start?
...
>It's #0.player_start
..
>John Towell, Ph.D.
...

That being said, has anyone done a system that allows different player
classes a different starting location, or for guest to pick a parameter at
login and start in one place or the other? If so, could you describe it, or
give pointers to moos _and_ objects where it is implemented?

Thanks!


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 20 Dec 1994 11:19:17
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From:	dZothMuellarg <zot@crl.com>
Message-Id: <199412201919.AA28836@crl2.crl.com>
Subject: MAC Clients
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Date:	Tue, 20 Dec 1994 11:19:17 -0800
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
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Sorry to ask this here, but at least its not an OS question :)

I haven't done any real research into MAC CLients.  It just occured to
me that I am about to take a bunch of computer newbies from my improv
troupe and show them Baymoo, and I can't use TF.  Last time I did this
with telnet it was nasty.

Does anyone know of a MAC Client I could use?  Some preferences:

Easy to get (like compiled)
Easy to configure (Little time).
Easy to use (for Computer newbies)

All it really needs to do is clean the input lines and output lines so
that when people get spammed it doesn't overwrite their text.

Thanks in advance.

-- 
Later,
ZOT                                                        zot@crl.com
Home Page:   <A/ HREF="ftp://ftp.crl.com/users/ro/zot/home.html" /A>
Improv Page: <A/ HREF="ftp://ftp.crl.com/users/ro/zot/fourclap.html" a/>

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 20 Dec 1994 11:54:44
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 20 Dec 1994 13:54:44 -0600 (CST)
Date:	Tue, 20 Dec 1994 11:54:44 -0800
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From:	bolie@io.com (Bolie Williams IV)
Subject: Re: MAC Clients
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To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
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>Does anyone know of a MAC Client I could use?  Some preferences:
>
>Easy to get (like compiled)
>Easy to configure (Little time).
>Easy to use (for Computer newbies)
>
>All it really needs to do is clean the input lines and output lines so
>that when people get spammed it doesn't overwrite their text.

Try Muddweller, it's all of the above.  It's available from info-mac
and mirrors.

*** ------------------------------ *** ------------------------------ ***
Bolie Calvin Williams IV         Proj. Engnrng, Computers, Electric Mach.
(bolie@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu)        MSME University of Texas, exp. Dec 94
(bolie@io.com)(http://io.com/user/bolie/)  BSME Rice University, May 1993
** -- Hire me! Looking for work in Austin, Houston, or SF-Bay Area. -- **


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 20 Dec 1994 11:54:40
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From:	bolie@io.com (Bolie Williams IV)
Subject: RE: Mac MOO Server
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>see if you have allowed programs to link to your machine in the sharing
>setup in the control panel, if not, you need to.  also, you must have the
>thread manager extension.  you need to increase the ram that it can have to
>about 8 megs instead of six (starting out).  (virtual ram is okay).  have
>you checked the FAQ i have?  if not, look on my homepage at
>http://www.utexas.edu/~grgcombs in the moo coolies menu...

I've looked at the FAQ and you might want to mention that Program
Linking must be on or it will crash.  The implication in the FAQ
is that you only need it on to connect to it.  I have Thread Manager,
lots of virtual ram and System 7.1.  I would be using it on the
Internet (MacSLIP/MacTCP) so I wouldn't be using an Appletalk network.

*** ------------------------------ *** ------------------------------ ***
Bolie Calvin Williams IV         Proj. Engnrng, Computers, Electric Mach.
(bolie@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu)        MSME University of Texas, exp. Dec 94
(bolie@io.com)(http://io.com/user/bolie/)  BSME Rice University, May 1993
** -- Hire me! Looking for work in Austin, Houston, or SF-Bay Area. -- **


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 20 Dec 1994 13:20:57
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Date:	Tue, 20 Dec 1994 13:20:57 -0800
From:	Kenny Root <kenny@freak.org>
To:	Kim Cary <kcary@pepperdine.edu>
cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: determining start place at login (was Re: #0.player_start)
In-Reply-To: <v01510101ab1c45205aea@[137.159.198.71]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.941220151246.4032A-100000@Freak.ORG>
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On Tue, 20 Dec 1994, Kim Cary wrote:
...
> >> Can someone tell me the name of the property that sets the room
> >> where users enter as they login? Isn't it something on $player_start?
...
> That being said, has anyone done a system that allows different player
> classes a different starting location, or for guest to pick a parameter at
> login and start in one place or the other? If so, could you describe it, or
> give pointers to moos _and_ objects where it is implemented?
> 
> Thanks!

I personally haven't done it, but it'd be simple enough to implement.  
Say you have a list of lists in the format:

{ { <player class dbref>, <starting location dbref> } , ... }

ie:

;$login.starting_locations
=> {{#352, #591}, {#838, #910}}

And have a verb that looks like this:

@verb $login:move_to_start tnt
@program $login:move_to_start
if (caller != this)
  return E_PERM;
endif
start = $player_start;
for x in [1..length(this.starting_locations)]
  if (start == $player_start && $object_utils:isa(args[1], this.starting_locations[x][1]))
    start = this.starting_locations[x][2];
  endif
endfor
move(args[1], start);
.

And replace `move(player, $player_start);' with `this:move_to_start(player);'

Kenny Root
MUD Freaks Anonymous
CaseusVeloxMOO
freak.org 7777

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 20 Dec 1994 13:28:23
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Date:	Tue, 20 Dec 1994 13:28:23 -0800
From:	Kenny Root <kenny@freak.org>
To:	dZothMuellarg <zot@crl.com>
cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: MAC Clients
In-Reply-To: <199412201919.AA28836@crl2.crl.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.941220152607.4047A-100000@Freak.ORG>
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On Tue, 20 Dec 1994, dZothMuellarg wrote:
....
> I haven't done any real research into MAC CLients.  It just occured to
> me that I am about to take a bunch of computer newbies from my improv
> troupe and show them Baymoo, and I can't use TF.  Last time I did this
> with telnet it was nasty.
> 
> Does anyone know of a MAC Client I could use?  Some preferences:
...
> All it really needs to do is clean the input lines and output lines so
> that when people get spammed it doesn't overwrite their text.
> 
> Thanks in advance.

The only MAC Client I know of is MUDDweller.  It's up for FTP in NEU's 
archive at ftp://ftp.ccs.neu.edu/pub/mud/clients/muddweller

Hope that helps! :)

Kenny Root
MUD Freaks Anonymous
CaseusVeloxMOO
freak.org 7777

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 20 Dec 1994 14:53:28
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Date:	Tue, 20 Dec 1994 14:53:28 -0800
From:	jerry@pwa.acusd.edu (Jerry Stratton)
Subject: Multiple Starting Locations
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com (MooCows)
Message-ID: <9412202253.AA03632@pwa.acusd.edu>

There's already *some* form of multiple starting location: players each
have their own '.home'. Can you set this on the base classes for each
'type' that you have?

Jerry
jerry@teetot.acusd.edu (Finger/Reply for PGP Public Key)
------
"Everywhere I go I'm asked if I think the university stifles
writers. My opinion is that they don't stifle enough of 
them. There's many a bestseller that could have been 
prevented by a good teacher."
	     -- Flannery O'Connor

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 20 Dec 1994 15:21:22
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To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	WMILLER@rex.mnsmc.edu
Date:	Tue, 20 Dec 1994 15:21:22 -0800
Subject: Re: MAC Clients
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.0.5
Message-ID: <38D3CCD04CA@rex.mnsmc.edu>

Besides Muddweller there is also a client called MUdling.
*************************************************************************

Wes Miller
Dept. of Sociology
St. Mary's College  of Minnesota
700 Terrace Heights
Winona, MN 55987
email: wmiller@rex.mnsmc.edu                              
Home Page: http://140.190.128.190/Wes.html
"All proofs inevitably lead to propositions which have no proof. All things are
known because we want to believe them." ...from a Bene Gesserit manual.

*************************************************************************

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 21 Dec 1994 04:39:30
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To:	Kenny Root <kenny@freak.org>
From:	ebasta@acns.fsu.edu (Beth Basta)
Subject: Re: MAC Clients
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com

>On Tue, 20 Dec 1994, dZothMuellarg wrote:
>....
>> I haven't done any real research into MAC CLients.  It just occured to
>> me that I am about to take a bunch of computer newbies from my improv
>> troupe and show them Baymoo, and I can't use TF.  Last time I did this
>> with telnet it was nasty.
>>
>> Does anyone know of a MAC Client I could use?  Some preferences:
>...
>> All it really needs to do is clean the input lines and output lines so
>> that when people get spammed it doesn't overwrite their text.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>
>The only MAC Client I know of is MUDDweller.  It's up for FTP in NEU's
>archive at ftp://ftp.ccs.neu.edu/pub/mud/clients/muddweller
>
>Hope that helps! :)
>
>Kenny Root
>MUD Freaks Anonymous
>CaseusVeloxMOO
>freak.org 7777


Doesn't Muddweller on use dial up connections?  Is there a good client out
there for dedicated connections?  I heard of Mudling, but it seems a little
unstable.

Thanks

Beth
Four Seasons MOO


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 21 Dec 1994 05:07:14
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From:	bmgustav@bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il (Glusman Gustavo)
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Subject: Re: MAC Clients
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Date:	Wed, 21 Dec 1994 05:07:14 -0800
In-Reply-To: <9412211239.AA22304@acns.fsu.edu> from "Beth Basta" at Dec 21, 94 04:39:30 am
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One thing I can say about Mudling, is that it's highly unsuited for MOOing.
The main reason is that it interprets the $ sign as a 'break line', so
that MUD players can 'go north$look dragon$go south', and manage to peek at
the dragon and escape.
At least, highly unsuited for people that actually do something in a MOO...
(caveat - I may be talking of some ancient version of Mudling. if this changed,
I'm unaware of it)

-------------------------------------------------------------
Gustavo Glusman               Founder/administrator of BioMOO
-- Gustavo@bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il
-- http://bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il:70/0h/Gustavo/Glusman
-- BioMOO: telnet bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il 8888
           http://bioinfo.weizmann.ac.il:8888

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 21 Dec 1994 05:07:49
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Date:	Wed, 21 Dec 1994 05:07:49 -0800
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	sle@picosof.com (Samuel Latt Epstein)
Subject: Re: MAC Clients

mud dweller works with dialup, and ethernet connections via MacTCP.

really well most of the time too ;)

sam
rocker@chibamoo

Samuel Latt Epstein
Director, Hypermedia Services
sle@sensemedia.net
-----
The SenseMedia Network - http://sensemedia.net/ - mailto:info@sensemedia.net



From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 21 Dec 1994 05:11:29
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From:	Schneider Daniel <schneide@divsun.unige.ch>
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To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: European MOO project ? (4th EC framework)

As you Europeans might know, the EC will soon start the 4th European
Framework. A big chunk of it is devoted to "telematics applications"
(in many fields). One of the subfields is "Education and Training".
Well founded rumors say that projects using EXISTING technology will
be sponsored. Building an educational MOO (including other Internet
tools such as WWW) would IMHO be a good candidate.

Is there already such a project in which our group could participate ?
(Swiss can participate by bringing in their own money).

Or should we (EC members + Swiss) try to create a consortium?  I know
it is horrible work (like getting a politically correct coalition
together), but maybe it is worth it. I even may be able to get the
head of a (well connected) french research institute to do some of the
paperwork. What do you think ?

- greetings - Daniel
[Sorry you other Non-Europeans, you can't formally participate
in EC projects... but informally there is space for cooperation
I should think]

Daniel K.Schneider, TECFA (Educational Technologies and Learning)
Faculte de Psychologie et des Sciences de l'Education, University of Geneva,
9 route de Drize, 1227 Carouge(Switzerland),
Phone: (..41) 22 705 9694, Fax: (..41) 22 342 89 24

Internet: schneide@divsun.unige.ch  (and various national nets)
X400:     S=schneide;OU=divsun;O=unige;PRMD=switch;ADMD=arcom;C=ch/@gate.unige.ch
www:      http://tecfa.unige.ch/ {tecfa/general/tecfa-people/schneider.html}
MOO:      tecfamoo.unige.ch 7777 (aka Daniel) ... under construction


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 21 Dec 1994 06:32:01
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Date:	Wed, 21 Dec 1994 06:32:01 -0800
From:	Jackie Hamilton <kira@io.com>
Subject: Re: MAC Clients
In-Reply-to: <9412211305.AA14444@Sequoia.picosof.com>
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9412210840.A10665-0100000@pentagon.io.com>



I use MUDDweller, which is ok, but not very forgiving of lag.
I wish I knew Mac programming, because a MOOdweller would be really nice 
to have - esp. something that offered separate windows for coding verbs 
and editing properties.  

-Jackie Hamilton
kira@io.com


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 21 Dec 1994 10:11:31
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Date:	Wed, 21 Dec 1994 10:11:31 -0800
From:	Jeremy Cooper <jeremy@crl.com>
Subject: Re: MAC Clients
In-Reply-to: <Pine.3.89.9412210840.A10665-0100000@pentagon.io.com>
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941221100944.5559B-100000@crl.crl.com>

On Wed, 21 Dec 1994, Jackie Hamilton wrote:

> 
> 
> I use MUDDweller, which is ok, but not very forgiving of lag.
> I wish I knew Mac programming, because a MOOdweller would be really nice 
> to have - esp. something that offered separate windows for coding verbs 
> and editing properties.  

Let us not forget the great venture that Amy Bruckman fortook to make
MacMOOse.  It is the answer to your prayers.  I hope she doesn't mind my 
annoucing it.

ftp://media.mit.edu/pub/asb

                   .  _  _  .  _ ___ _  .  _
===-|)/\\/|V|/\/\ /_\|_|(_)/_\|_|\_/(_)/_\|_| Stop by for an excursion  -===
===-|)||/ | |\/\/ telnet moo.crl.com 8888 (_) into the Virtual Bay Area!-===

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 21 Dec 1994 11:40:41
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Date:	Wed, 21 Dec 1994 11:40:41 -0800
From:	aa902@cleveland.freenet.edu (David Carlin)
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Problems with $network:raw_sendmail
Reply-To: aa902@cleveland.freenet.edu (David Carlin)

>BTW, I'm assuming your maildrop is running Solaris because that's the only
>place I've heard of this 503 thing popping up..  If it's not but you are
>getting the 503 problem, please let me know (just curious), and lemme know if
>this fix deals with it or not.

The maildrop I'm using is a vaxstation 3100 running ultrix 4.3

I'll try the fix anyways; thanks!

             -David

--
David Carlin | aa902@po.cwru.edu | Home page: http://www.musenet.org/~zephyr
 aka Zephyr  |  Cleveland, Ohio  |-------------------------------------------
---------------------------------| Co-Sysop of The Cleveland Free-Net's
St. Ignatius High School C/o '97 | Multi-User Virtual Reality Sig (go mus)    

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 21 Dec 1994 12:02:44
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Date:	Wed, 21 Dec 1994 12:02:44 -0800
From:	asb@media.mit.edu
Subject: Re: MAC Clients
In-Reply-to: "Your message of \"Wed, 21 Dec 94 10:11:31 PST.\"
             <Pine.SUN.3.91.941221100944.5559B-100000@crl.crl.com>"
To:	Jeremy Cooper <jeremy@crl.com>
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com, asb@media.mit.edu
Message-ID: <9412212002.AA11193@media.mit.edu>


Jeremy, thanks very much for the vote of confidence! ...but hold off a couple
more days.  We're almost ready to release version 1.0b1.  (Got one more bug to
find.)  I'll announce it here soon.

Version 1.0b1 works only for Macs running MacTCP.  We hope to support dialup
access in a future version.

Cheers,

Amy

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 21 Dec 1994 12:41:18
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Date:	Wed, 21 Dec 1994 12:41:18 -0800
From:	"Zachary M. Loafman" <zml@metronet.com>
Message-Id: <199412212041.AA02984@metronet.com>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Mr Spell


How many of you actually use Mr. Spell?

If so many recycle it, why is/was it corified?

Why not add it to the moocode FTP at parcftp for those who want it? It
seems sensible, since it's sooo wasteful.

...Zach

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 21 Dec 1994 12:55:36
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Date:	Wed, 21 Dec 1994 12:55:36 -0800
From:	aa902@cleveland.freenet.edu (David Carlin)
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Problems with $network:raw_sendmail
Reply-To: aa902@cleveland.freenet.edu (David Carlin)

>Edit $network:raw_sendmail and change the following (line 48):
>
>    if (!index("23", line[1]))
>
>to:
>
>    if (line[4] == "-")
>    elseif (!index("23", line[1]))
>

I tried it and it worked perfectly, thanks. :)

Also, I had another problem that would pop up occasionally. #6:notify would
run out of seconds after I sent mail and I'd get this:

    #6:notify (this == #533), line 1:  Task ran out of seconds
    ... called from #1:tell (this == #533), line 1
    ... called from built-in function pass()
    ... called from #6:tell (this == #533), line 17
    ... called from #3:announce (this == #11), line 2
    ... called from #51:done q*uit pause (this == #48), line 11
    ... called from #48:send, line 41
    (End of traceback)

Any ideas on how to fix this? use suspend()?

              -David


--
David Carlin | aa902@po.cwru.edu | Home page: http://www.musenet.org/~zephyr
 aka Zephyr  |  Cleveland, Ohio  |-------------------------------------------
---------------------------------| Co-Sysop of The Cleveland Free-Net's
St. Ignatius High School C/o '97 | Multi-User Virtual Reality Sig (go mus)    

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 21 Dec 1994 13:06:37
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To:	ebasta@acns.fsu.edu (Beth Basta)
From:	kcary@pepperdine.edu (Kim Cary)
Subject: Re: MAC Clients
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com

>Doesn't Muddweller on use dial up connections?  Is there a good client out
>there for dedicated connections?  I heard of Mudling, but it seems a little
>unstable.
>
>Thanks
>
>Beth
>Four Seasons MOO

Mudling is pretty unusable for me; especially the problems it has pasting.
I deleted it because I was unwilling to pay the shareware fee when I got no
feedback on the copy/paste bug progress from the author.

Muddweller 1.2 by O. Maquelin is freeware.

        - It can use either the comm toolbox (serial) or the direct network
          connection (if you have MacTCP).
        - With the direct net connect I can open multiple windows.
        - It also does a great job with uploads via its send file command.
        - It can log your session. I use that alot for dumps and training.

You can find it at:

http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/HyperArchive/Archive/game/mud-dweller-12.hqx


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 21 Dec 1994 13:13:11
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Date:	Wed, 21 Dec 1994 13:13:11 -0800
From:	Kenny Root <kenny@freak.org>
To:	"Zachary M. Loafman" <zml@metronet.com>
cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Mr Spell
In-Reply-To: <199412212041.AA02984@metronet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.941221151043.10446B-100000@Freak.ORG>
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On Wed, 21 Dec 1994, Zachary M. Loafman wrote:
> How many of you actually use Mr. Spell?

Many programming applications use it on Lambda.

> If so many recycle it, why is/was it corified?

Guess it seemed like a good idea at the time.

> Why not add it to the moocode FTP at parcftp for those who want it? It
> seems sensible, since it's sooo wasteful.

Why don't we just recycle it if we don't want it?

Kenny Root                                   	CaseusVeloxMOO
MUD Freaks Anonymous				freak.org 7777

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 21 Dec 1994 13:52:18
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Date:	Wed, 21 Dec 1994 13:52:18 -0800
From:	"Wayne E. Bouchard" <WEB@hacks.arizona.edu>
Subject: RE: Mr Spell
To:	zml@metronet.com
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <941221145218.20802e7a@HACKS.Arizona.EDU>

> If so many recycle it, why is/was it corified?

Maybe because it is a royal pain to install if you actually DO want it?

-Wayne (aka Sadric)

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 21 Dec 1994 17:44:17
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To:	grgcombs@mail.utexas.edu (Gregory S. Combs)
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Macintosh MOO... 
In-reply-to: Gregory S. Combs's message of "Thu, 15 Dec 94 18:07:49 PST"
             <v01510101ab16a6b7fdae@[128.83.243.58]> 
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date:	Wed, 21 Dec 1994 17:44:17 -0800
Sender: Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
From:	Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Message-Id: <94Dec21.174420pst.162698@mu.parc.xerox.com>

Gregory S. Combs writes:
> is there a way to allocate these trees, then instead of disposing then
> re-allocating them, is it possible to allocate once, then re-use those
> trees, and if you run out then allocate more?

Yes, but this is what malloc() and free() are supposed to do; on most systems, 
these functions aren't slow enough to be worth avoiding calling.

	Pavel

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 21 Dec 1994 17:57:17
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To:	Allan Alford <chiphead@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu>
Cc:	Quinn <quinn@access.mountain.net>, MOO-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Linux/BSDI 
In-reply-to: Allan Alford's message of "Fri, 16 Dec 94 09:20:20 PST"
             <Pine.3.89.9412161144.A793-0100000@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu> 
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Date:	Wed, 21 Dec 1994 17:57:17 -0800
Sender: Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
From:	Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Message-Id: <94Dec21.175728pst.162699@mu.parc.xerox.com>

Allan Alford writes:
> On Fri, 16 Dec 1994, Quinn wrote:
> > I was under the impression that a MOO was supposed to consume ~1.8 times
> >  its size on disk in RAM.  Ours is about 4.1M, but is consuming 13.3!
> 
> Quinn: At checkpoint on a linux box, Point MOOt went up to more like
> 2.8 or 2.9 times the db size on the RAM.  This was with version 1.7.7.
> 
> We retrograded to 1.7.5, and got that down to about 2.4 to 2.5.

Um, since 1.7.7 and 1.7.5 used precisely the same storage layout, I have a 
strong suspicion that what you saw was due to some other factor.  In any case, 
none of these factors is likely to be reliable, since the running tasks in a 
server can easily push up usage in ways that don't get reflected in the DB 
file.

	Pavel

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 21 Dec 1994 19:22:10
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 21 Dec 1994 21:22:10 -0600 (CST)
Date:	Wed, 21 Dec 1994 19:22:10 -0800
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
From:	bolie@io.com (Bolie Williams IV)
Subject: Mac MOO server questions
X-Sender: bolie@utxsvs.cc.utexas.edu
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Message-id: <01HKX4C0LKCI8WWPUH@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>
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First, is there a better place to ask about this?

Second, I can't get the Mac MOO server to work.  I tried turning on
Appletalk and setting program linking and was able to get it to run
by dropping the LambdaCore on it.  Then I tried to connect.  The MOO
client that I got from the same place (ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/rcm/)
caused an unimplemented trap when I tried to connect.  So I tried
Muddweller, but it couldn't connect with port 7777 or 8888.  There
appears to be no documentation and the source code doesn't help me
since I'm more of a MOO programmer and not much of a Mac programmer,
though I'd like to be...

Judging from the other posts, I'm probably way out of my league,
but I thought I'd ask.

BTW, tar is not a good way to archive Mac stuff...

Sorry to bother everyone with this, but I'd rather be fooling with
MOO than Mac.  :)

*** ------------------------------ *** ------------------------------ ***
Bolie Calvin Williams IV         Proj. Engnrng, Computers, Electric Mach.
(bolie@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu)        MSME University of Texas, exp. Dec 94
(bolie@io.com)(http://io.com/user/bolie/)  BSME Rice University, May 1993
** -- Hire me! Looking for work in Austin, Houston, or SF-Bay Area. -- **


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 22 Dec 1994 06:25:31
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Date:	Thu, 22 Dec 1994 06:25:31 -0800
To:	Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
From:	Scott Brim <swb1@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Macintosh MOO...
Cc:	grgcombs@mail.utexas.edu (Gregory S. Combs), moo-cows@parc.xerox.com

You might want to lift some ideas from other people's code.  For
example in gated (http://www.gated.cornell.edu) we have our own
internal memory management which only calls malloc when it really has
to, and when it does it gets big blocks.  This has sped us up
tremendously.

...Scott


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 22 Dec 1994 10:09:30
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To:	Scott Brim <swb1@cornell.edu>
Cc:	Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>,
	grgcombs@mail.utexas.edu (Gregory S. Combs), moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Macintosh MOO... 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 22 Dec 1994 06:25:31 PST."
             <v02110305ab1f3c672e28@[132.236.199.117]> 
Date:	Thu, 22 Dec 1994 10:09:30 -0800
From:	Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>


> You might want to lift some ideas from other people's code.  For
> example in gated (http://www.gated.cornell.edu) we have our own
> internal memory management which only calls malloc when it really
> has to, and when it does it gets big blocks.  This has sped us up
> tremendously.

I used to reimplement malloc() in every nontrivial application I
wrote, but this really only speeds you up under SunOS, which has a
very slow memory allocator optimized for space efficiency, and maybe a
few other platforms.  I found that on the vast majority of platforms,
it doesn't buy you and speed, and increases your space usage.

If you're having trouble with SunOS malloc(), there are a host of
public-domain malloc()s out there which perform quite well; see
ftp.cs.toronto.edu:pub/moraes/malloc-1.13.tar.gz, for example.

If you're going to change the interface because you think you can
provide information which can make malloc() work faster, then there is
an interesting approach detailed in a recent Usenix paper (from the
Boston summer usenix) where you don't just cache memory, you cache the
whole constructed state of objects.  This is especially useful in a
multithreaded system when it may take more time to initialize fields
and mutexes on objects than it does to allocate the memory for the
object.

The paper (I think it's called "The Slab Allocator", and is about the
allocator used in the Solaris kernel; no free implementation, alas)
also contains some interesting insights about the tension between
global vs. local memory management (how to avoid having your local
caches eat up lots of unused memory), how to get good bus balance if
you have two memory busses, etc..

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 22 Dec 1994 16:27:08
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Date:	Thu, 22 Dec 1994 16:27:08 -0800
From:	asb@media.mit.edu
Subject: MacMOOSE 1.0b1
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com, macmoose@media.mit.edu
cc:	asb@media.mit.edu
Message-ID: <9412230027.AA19829@yongosona.media.mit.edu.media.mit.edu>


I'm pleased to be able to tell you that MacMOOSE 1.0b1 is ready.
MacMOOSE is a client program for MOOs that provides:

* Help in a separate window
* Object browsers listing all the verbs and properties on an object
* WYSIWYG editing of verbs and properties (i.e., Macintosh-style editing)

As well as more familiar features like:

* Multiple connections
* Changeable fonts
* Separate input and output panes for connection windows
* Command key equivalents for most client functions (changing between 
	connections, editing objects, etc.)

To use MacMOOSE, you must have a Macintosh directly on the Internet running
System 7 and MacTCP.  Support for dialup access is planned for a future
version.  ** MacMOOSE works only with MOOs, not other kids of MUDs. **

MacMOOSE is avaiable via anonymous ftp from media.mit.edu in 
pub/asb/MacMOOSE/MacMOOSE1.0b1.sea.bin

MacMOOSE is provided free of charge for non-commercial use.  In return, we
require that you register your copy on the opening registration screen, and
ask that you please send us complete, detailed bug reports including:

*	the version of MacMOOSE you are running, 
*	what type of Macintosh you use,
*	what version of the system software you run,
*	how much RAM you have, and how much allocated to the application,
*	what MOO(SE)s you were connected to,
*	as precise as possible a description of what caused the error, and
*	whether you were able to recreate the same error.

Please send bug reports to:
bug-macmoose@media.mit.edu

To be added to a mailing list for discussion of MacMOOSE, email:
macmoose-request@media.mit.edu

MacMOOSE is by Amy Bruckman, Adam Skwersky, and Steve Tamm.  Greg Hudson wrote
an earlier version.  MacMOOSE was developed at the MIT Media Lab as part of
the Tools To Think With project, directed by Mitchel Resnick.  Special thanks
to the brave alpha testers who sent in helpful feedback on version 1.0a1, and
to Michael Maier for designing the icons.

Enjoy,

Amy

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 22 Dec 1994 18:53:14
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From:	Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
To:	MOO-Cows-Announce@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Patch for nasty server bug
Message-Id: <94Dec22.185325pst.162701@mu.parc.xerox.com>
Date:	Thu, 22 Dec 1994 18:53:14 -0800

There is a potentially server-crashing bug in release 1.7.8p4 of the LambdaMOO
server.  To fix it, replace the functions `listrangeset' and `strrangeset' in
file `list.c' with the following:

	Var
	listrangeset(Var base, int from, int to, Var value)
	{
	    /* base and value are free'd */
	    int index, offset = 0;
	    int val_len = value.v.list[0].v.num;
	    int base_len = base.v.list[0].v.num;
	    int lenleft = (from > 1) ? from - 1 : 0;
	    int lenmiddle = val_len;
	    int lenright = (base_len > to) ? base_len - to : 0;
	    int newsize = lenleft + lenmiddle + lenright;
	    Var ans;

	    ans = new_list(newsize);
	    for (index = 1; index <= lenleft; index++)	
		ans.v.list[++offset] = var_ref(base.v.list[index]);
	    for (index = 1; index <= lenmiddle; index++)
		ans.v.list[++offset] = var_ref(value.v.list[index]);
	    for (index = 1; index <= lenright; index++)
		ans.v.list[++offset] = var_ref(base.v.list[to + index]);
	    free_var(base);
	    free_var(value);
	    return ans;
	}


	Var
	strrangeset(Var base, int from, int to, Var value)
	{
	    /* base and value are free'd */
	    int index, offset = 0;
	    int val_len = strlen(value.v.str);
	    int base_len = strlen(base.v.str);
	    int lenleft = (from > 1) ? from - 1 : 0;
	    int lenmiddle = val_len;
	    int lenright = (base_len > to) ? base_len - to : 0;
	    int newsize = lenleft + lenmiddle + lenright;

	    Var ans;
	    char *s;

	    ans.type = TYPE_STR;
	    s = mymalloc(sizeof(char) * (newsize + 1), M_STRING);

	    for (index = 0; index < lenleft; index++)
		s[offset++] = base.v.str[index];
	    for (index = 0; index < lenmiddle; index++)
		s[offset++] = value.v.str[index];
	    for (index = 0; index < lenright; index++)
		s[offset++] = base.v.str[index + to];
	    s[offset] = '\0';
	    ans.v.str = s;
	    free_var(base);
	    free_var(value);
	    return ans;    
	}

These new functions fix the bug that have caused both recent crashes on
LambdaMOO.  They will be incorporated into the next release of the server.

Sorry for the inconvenience,

	Pavel

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 23 Dec 1994 00:57:27
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From:	Alex Stewart <riche@crl.com>
Message-Id: <199412230857.AA20860@crl9.crl.com>
Subject: Regularizing the "x" bit
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Date:	Fri, 23 Dec 1994 00:57:27 -0800
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Well, I've gotten to the point where I think I'm gonna patch the existing
server to regularize the meaning of the "x" bit on verbs (i.e. a !x verb can be
called by the owner or a wizard, instead of not being callable by anybody)..

My main question is can anybody see any big pitfalls/security holes this change
might cause with existing code that would need to be watched out for?  The only
one I see off hand is if there are wiz-owned, non-caller-permed, !d verbs out
there that rely on an E_VERBNF instead of actually checking to see if a
callable verb exists first, which should be a fairly easy thing to look for and
correct..

Of course, I know I'm probably overlooking something major, which is why I'm
putting the question out here before embarking on it..  Comments?

I'm also trying to figure out what to do about pass() and !x verbs..  I can see
why pass() requires passing to a +x verb, but this can seriously defeat the
purpose of OOP when one's trying to override a command verb on a generic and
finds it can't be pass()ed to because it was created !x by default.. sigh.

-R
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Alex Stewart - riche@crl.com - Richelieu @ Diversity University MOO
              ftp://ftp.crl.com/users/ro/riche/html/riche.html

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 23 Dec 1994 09:17:00
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Date:	Fri, 23 Dec 1994 09:17:00 -0800
From:	ken@odin.stockton.edu (Ken Tompkins)
Message-Id: <9412231717.AA27235@odin.stockton.edu>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Paging to Robots

Has anyone developed a robot which receives/answers pages? We
have been thinking a good deal about help systems here and,
when "helpers" are not around a robot would probably do nicely.
What we need is something simple that responds to pages about
basic moo commands.

If something like this does exist, please tell me where it
is and, perhaps, I can port it.

Ken Tompkins
BlueMoon

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 23 Dec 1994 09:46:10
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From:	jepler@herbie.unl.edu (Jeff "Obik" Epler)
Message-Id: <9412231746.AA11197@herbie.unl.edu>
Subject: Re: Regularizing the "x" bit
To:	riche@crl.com (Alex Stewart)
Date:	Fri, 23 Dec 1994 09:46:10 -0800
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-Reply-To: <199412230857.AA20860@crl9.crl.com> from "Alex Stewart" at Dec 23, 94 00:57:27 am
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Alex Stewart wrote:
> I'm also trying to figure out what to do about pass() and !x verbs..  I can see
> why pass() requires passing to a +x verb, but this can seriously defeat the
> purpose of OOP when one's trying to override a command verb on a generic and
> finds it can't be pass()ed to because it was created !x by default.. sigh.

What is wrong with allowing pass() to work on !x verbs, if the calling verb
is also !x?  Or even just always?

Jeff
-- 
____ "Always modulate your shield frequency" -- Me, after seeing Generations
\BI/   "And if I smile, please tell me some bad news
 \/     before I laugh and act like a fool"  -The Who "Behind Blue Eyes"
grep -vi obik       Running Linux 1.1 -- Free Unix for 386+ machines

From someone 23 Dec 1994 10:16:21
Replied: Fri, 23 Dec 94 15:59:17 -0800
Replied: Alex Stewart <riche@crl.com>
Replied: moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
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From:	Alex Stewart <riche@crl.com>
Message-Id: <199412231816.AA07749@crl9.crl.com>
Subject: sigh.. name-lookup deaths again..
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Date:	Fri, 23 Dec 1994 10:16:21 -0800
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Well, if I had the luxury, I'd be giving up right about now..

For several days I've been trying to figure out what's going on at DU and I
can't.  Ever since we moved to our new home, which is running SunOS 5.3
(instead of 4.1.3 at ERAU) the name-lookup process keeps mysteriously dying.
No bang, no whimper, just a

  *** LOOKUP_NAME: LOOKUP_ADDR: Read from intermediary failed; presumed dead...

...and no more lookup processes.  I've put in debugging log-entries all through
name_lookup.c and still can't make much out except the following:

1. It appears that the pipe(s) between the main MOO process and the
intermediary process are getting severed somehow, causing the MOO to kill the
intermediary because it can't talk to it anymore. (once one of my debugging log
entries indicated that the intermediary couldn't read from the main process
either, which means that both processes were running but the connection was
broken..)

2. It always seems to happen either just before a checkpoint starts or after
one finishes.

3. Occasionally, I'll find the following in the logs right around checkpoints
as well:

  *** Connecting in proto_open_connection: Interrupted system call

4. I can't go back to using the 1.7.7 lookup routines (I tried) because it
looks like Solaris has the same DNS bug as NeXTstep (real step forward for Sun,
huh?).. sigh.

I don't understand how this stuff can be occurring before a checkpoint starts,
but regularly before one starts.  It happens (as best I can tell from the order
in the log) before the checkpoint routine even gets executed, but always right
before.  How does it know?  The proto_open_connection thing indicates to me
that something about checkpointing is screwing up read()s in general, and it's
obviously a bug in SunOS 5.3, but I can't even figure out whether there's some
workaround until I can figure out how it happens in the first place, and I'm
stumped..

Anyway, does anybody have and idea what could be happening here?  Has anybody
experienced anything similar?  Is anybody running a MOO on Solaris with no
problems at all?  I'm really getting desperate here..

-R
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Alex Stewart - riche@crl.com - Richelieu @ Diversity University MOO
              ftp://ftp.crl.com/users/ro/riche/html/riche.html

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 23 Dec 1994 11:18:02
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From:	bmgustav@bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il (Gustavo Glusman)
Subject: Re: error in match() ?
To:	MOO-Cows.parc@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412231918.AB04239@bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il>

Amy wrote:
>I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong or if there's an error in match()...
>I'm trying to find if the variable ref[1] has a . in it.  So I'm doing a match
>on the string "\"the die stops on \"" with the match string "%."  It's coming
>back with a match starting on character 21 when the string is only 20 or 18
>characters long, depending on how the \" gets counted (something that always
>confuses me!), and there's no . in it.

I have been unable to reproduce this error, the result was as expected.
Could you give a simple eval example that would show it?

A couple of weeks ago I posted a query on rmatch(), but got no comments.
Any ideas?

-------------------------------------------------------------
Gustavo Glusman               Founder/administrator of BioMOO
-- Gustavo@bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il
-- http://bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il:70/0h/Gustavo/Glusman
-- BioMOO: telnet bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il 8888
           WWW:   http://bioinfo.weizmann.ac.il:8888


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 23 Dec 1994 12:50:06
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Date:	Fri, 23 Dec 1994 12:50:06 -0800
From:	Quinn <quinn@access.mountain.net>
Message-Id: <199412232050.PAA26229@Access.Mountain.Net>
To:	jepler@herbie.unl.edu, riche@crl.com
Subject: Re: Regularizing the "x" bit
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com

:| What is wrong with allowing pass() to work on !x verbs, if the
:| calling verb is also !x?  Or even just always?

The problem is that some verbs will expect that being !x means
 that they can ONLY be called from the command-line.  While
 allowing them to be accessed by descendants isn't as large a
 hole as allowing them to be accessed from foreign objects, it
 still leaves them open for exploitation by PC owners.

Until they're securely plugged, that is.

The verbs, not the player-class owners.

-Quinn

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 23 Dec 1994 12:51:23
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To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	ebasta@acns.fsu.edu (Beth Basta)
Subject: Features

I know this is going to be a stupid question, but I have always had BIG
problems with feature object.  It doesn't matter what I put in
.feature_verbs or have .feature_ok set to 1.  I still can't call the
friggin verbs if I add the feature to me.  I am getting tired of trying
different things.  I know it has to be something simple....

I can't find any help files that tell me anything other than to make sure
to put the verbs in .feature_verbs by using set_feature_verbs and to set
.feature_ok to 1.

Any response would give me great unsermountable joy! (I mean that too)

Thanks in advance

Beth
Four Seasons MOO


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 23 Dec 1994 12:45:21
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Date:	Fri, 23 Dec 1994 12:45:21 -0800
From:	Quinn <quinn@access.mountain.net>
Message-Id: <199412232045.PAA26186@Access.Mountain.Net>
To:	ken@odin.stockton.edu, moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Paging to Robots

:| Has anyone developed a robot which receives/answers pages?

The only things required are adding a :receive_page verb and
 including the puppet in $player_db.

It would probably be better to modify :page to check something
 besides :match_player, though.  Maybe a new :match_paged that
 matches on a certain class of puppet, as well.

But the easiest way to do this kind of thing is to include it
 in $player_db, since that's what everyone who writes another
 page verb will be checking.  If you go this route, you can
 also make certain hacks to give the puppet the illusion of
 actually BEING a player--like modifying what WHO calls to
 gather its list of connected users.

These things are easier on a MOO where bits are tightly
 controlled, of course.  Rogue programmers who aren't with
 the scene can just use connected_players() or is_player()
 and ruin the illusion.

-Quinn

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 23 Dec 1994 12:52:59
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To:	ken@odin.stockton.edu (Ken Tompkins)
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Paging to Robots 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 23 Dec 1994 09:17:00 PST."
             <9412231717.AA27235@odin.stockton.edu> 
Date:	Fri, 23 Dec 1994 12:52:59 -0800
From:	Mike O'Brien <obrien@antares.aero.org>
Message-Id: <94Dec23.125317pst.111110-3@aero.org>

	To the best of my knowledge, the original Maas-Neotek robot, for
TinyMUD, deals just fine with pages.  Certainly Newt on DragonMUD does.
When I paged him about his source code, he said:

Newt pages: The source code for Maas-Neotek robots is available on host
 NL.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.222.56], directory /usr/mlm/ftp, file robot.tar.Z. set
 mode binary first, and cd to /usr/mlm/ftp in one step, Caern.


	Of course I don't know how up-to-date that is.

Mike O'Brien

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 23 Dec 1994 13:14:36
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From:	bmgustav@bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il (Gustavo Glusman)
Subject: Re: Paging to Robots
To:	MOO-Cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412232114.AA04362@bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il>

Quinn writes:
> you can
> also make certain hacks to give the puppet the illusion of
> actually BEING a player--like modifying what WHO calls to
> gather its list of connected users.

Um, have you asked the puppet? Maybe it already has that illusion without
further hacks? ;)

>These things are easier on a MOO where bits are tightly
> controlled, of course.  Rogue programmers who aren't with
> the scene can just use connected_players() or is_player()
> and ruin the illusion.

$server_options.protect_connected_players ...

-------------------------------------------------------------
Gustavo Glusman               Founder/administrator of BioMOO
-- Gustavo@bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il
-- http://bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il:70/0h/Gustavo/Glusman
-- BioMOO: telnet bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il 8888
           WWW:   http://bioinfo.weizmann.ac.il:8888


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 23 Dec 1994 13:36:28
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Date:	Fri, 23 Dec 1994 13:36:28 -0800
From:	Quinn <quinn@access.mountain.net>
Subject: Re: Paging to Robots
To:	bmgustav@bioinformatics.weizmann.ac.il, MOO-Cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <199412232136.QAA26673@Access.Mountain.Net>

:| >These things are easier on a MOO where bits are tightly
:| > controlled, of course.  Rogue programmers who aren't with
:| > the scene can just use connected_players() or is_player()
:| > and ruin the illusion.
:| 
:| $server_options.protect_connected_players ...

And then they'd loop through players to check idle_seconds,
 so you'd have to protect idle_seconds and connected_seconds.

And then they might loop through players and check their
 parentage, so you'd have to protect parent().

We could just protect players().

But then they could always just check the connected verb you
 DO give them and check for E_VERBNF on crucial verbs, or
 just use $object_utils:connected if that hasn't been fixed
 to yield to the protected functions...


OK.  Smart-ass mode off.


My point being: If you're gonna try to hide the machinery from
 the people, you're better off just trusting the mechanics.

-Quinn

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 23 Dec 1994 02:31:30
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From:	Steve Brown <steve@unicorn.dungeon.com>
Message-Id: <199412231131.LAA04363@unicorn.dungeon.com>
Subject: Re: Regularizing the "x" bit
To:	riche@crl.com (Alex Stewart)
Date:	Fri, 23 Dec 1994 02:31:30 -0800
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-Reply-To: <199412230857.AA20860@crl9.crl.com> from "Alex Stewart" at Dec 23, 94 00:57:27 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
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> Well, I've gotten to the point where I think I'm gonna patch the existing
> server to regularize the meaning of the "x" bit on verbs (i.e. a !x verb can be
> called by the owner or a wizard, instead of not being callable by anybody)..
> 
> My main question is can anybody see any big pitfalls/security holes this change
> might cause with existing code that would need to be watched out for?  The only

Yes, I can see a problem here which became apparent to me only just the other
day. One of my players inadvertantly trapped me as a wizard in a room of his
by creating a clever exitfunc on the room. The only way I could get out was
to !x the exitfunc. ( I guess I could have removed the verb altogether but
since it had useful properties for normal players I didnt want to ).

I'd prefer !x to mean just that. Not executable.

Just my thoughts,
Steve.

-- 
*******************************************************************************
Dungeon Network Systems, Full Internet Service in the UK.   * 10 UKP per month.
Call (01638) 711550 ( voice ) or email info@dungeon.com     * FIRST MONTH FREE!
Email, Telnet, FTP, UseNet, WWW, MOO, Multi-player DOOM.... * Vfast Modems too! 
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From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 23 Dec 1994 13:47:03
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Date:	Fri, 23 Dec 1994 13:47:03 -0800
From:	aa902@cleveland.freenet.edu (David Carlin)
To:	ebasta@acns.fsu.edu
Subject: Re: Features
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Reply-To: aa902@cleveland.freenet.edu (David Carlin)

>I know this is going to be a stupid question, but I have always had BIG
>problems with feature object.  It doesn't matter what I put in
>.feature_verbs or have .feature_ok set to 1.  I still can't call the
>friggin verbs if I add the feature to me.  I am getting tired of trying
>different things.  I know it has to be something simple....
>
>I can't find any help files that tell me anything other than to make sure
>to put the verbs in .feature_verbs by using set_feature_verbs and to set
>.feature_ok to 1.

The verbs have to be set executable, @chmod <obj>:<verb> +x

I think this is your problem.

         -David

--
David Carlin | aa902@po.cwru.edu | Home page: http://www.musenet.org/~zephyr
 aka Zephyr  |  Cleveland, Ohio  |-------------------------------------------
---------------------------------| Co-Sysop of The Cleveland Free-Net's
St. Ignatius High School C/o '97 | Multi-User Virtual Reality Sig (go mus)    

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 23 Dec 1994 14:58:52
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Date:	Fri, 23 Dec 1994 14:58:52 -0800
From:	MERCER@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
CC:	MERCER@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu
Message-Id: <941223145852.22a00f28@seqaxp.caltech.edu>
Subject: paging robots

  BioMOO has two robots, TalkBot and Help that recieve pages.  TalkBot,
a tutorial tool, also responds.  Help is a stripped down version of
Lambda's 'page help' system.  Both these work completely within the
MOO and require no outside process running.
                                      Eric Mercer

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 23 Dec 1994 15:09:06
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Date:	Fri, 23 Dec 1994 15:09:06 -0800
From:	Jeremy Cooper <jeremy@crl.com>
To:	Alex Stewart <riche@crl.com>
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: sigh.. name-lookup deaths again..
In-Reply-To: <199412231816.AA07749@crl9.crl.com>
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On Fri, 23 Dec 1994, Alex Stewart wrote:

> For several days I've been trying to figure out what's going on at DU and I
> can't.  Ever since we moved to our new home, which is running SunOS 5.3
> (instead of 4.1.3 at ERAU) the name-lookup process keeps mysteriously dying.
> No bang, no whimper, just a
> 
>   *** LOOKUP_NAME: LOOKUP_ADDR: Read from intermediary failed; presumed dead...

Two hours ago I mailed you saying that BayMOO was running on Solaris 2.3 
just perfectly.  I should have kept my mouth shut.  Did you put a virus or 
something in your last message?  Now we have the same problem too!

                  .  _  _  .  _ ___ _  .  _ ___
==-|)/\\/|V|/\/\ /_\|_|(_)/_\|_|\_/(_)/_\|_|\_/ Stop by for an excursion   -==
==-|)||/ | |\/\/ telnet baymoo.sfsu.edu 8888(_) into the Virtual Bay Area! -==

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 23 Dec 1994 15:20:00
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From:	frankc@netcom.com (Frank Crowell)
Message-Id: <199412232320.PAA03524@netcom14.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Paging to Robots
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com (MOO-COWS)
Date:	Fri, 23 Dec 1994 15:20:00 -0800
In-Reply-To: <94Dec23.125317pst.111110-3@aero.org> from "Mike O'Brien" at Dec 23, 94 12:52:59 pm
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> 
> 
> Newt pages: The source code for Maas-Neotek robots is available on host
>  NL.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.222.56], directory /usr/mlm/ftp, file robot.tar.Z. set
>  mode binary first, and cd to /usr/mlm/ftp in one step, Caern.
> 
> 
> 	Of course I don't know how up-to-date that is.

Maybe Newt is a little smarter than Colins.  I had to hack Colins
for a MUSH and he paniced in my room.  I guess he didn't like
my puppet dog scruffy.

I believe that someone had planned on converting a MaasNeotek 
for a MOO.  

Another source is ftp.tcp.com/pub/mud/Robot

-frank

-- 
[Frank Crowell  			 frankc@netcom.COM]
[maddog's Studio ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/fr/frankc/maddog.html]

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 23 Dec 1994 15:28:12
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Date:	Fri, 23 Dec 1994 15:28:12 -0800
From:	Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Subject: Re: Write permission?
In-Reply-to: "Yesod Aia's message of \"Wed, 21 Dec 94 23:14:41 PST\"
             <9412220714.AA03667@pollux.indstate.edu>AC 3"
To:	Yesod Aia <ajax@pollux.indstate.edu>
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <94Dec23.152821pst.162702@mu.parc.xerox.com>

Yesod Aia writes:
> then `E_INVARG' is retuned.  If the programmer does not have write         *
> permission on <object> or if the owner specified by <info> is not the      *
> programmer and the programmer is not a wizard, then `E_PERM' is returned.  *
> =======
> 
> Where/how can I set the write permission on my objects?

You have write permission on an object if (a) you own it, (b) you are a 
wizard, or (c) the built-in `w' property of the object is true.  Thus, for an 
object X that you (a non-wizard) don't own, the owner of the object or a 
wizard would have to do

	X.w = 1;

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 23 Dec 1994 15:59:14
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To:	Alex Stewart <riche@crl.com>
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: sigh.. name-lookup deaths again.. 
In-reply-to: Alex Stewart's message of "Fri, 23 Dec 94 10:16:21 PST"
             <199412231816.AA07749@crl9.crl.com> 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date:	Fri, 23 Dec 1994 15:59:14 -0800
Sender: Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
From:	Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Message-Id: <94Dec23.155927pst.162702@mu.parc.xerox.com>

Alex Stewart writes:
> For several days I've been trying to figure out what's going on at DU and I
> can't.  Ever since we moved to our new home, which is running SunOS 5.3
> (instead of 4.1.3 at ERAU) the name-lookup process keeps mysteriously dying.
> No bang, no whimper, just a
>  *** LOOKUP_NAME: LOOKUP_ADDR: Read from intermediary failed; presumed dead...
> ...
> 3. Occasionally, I'll find the following in the logs right around checkpoints
> as well:
>   *** Connecting in proto_open_connection: Interrupted system call
> ...
> I don't understand how this stuff can be occurring before a checkpoint starts,
> but regularly before one starts.  It happens (as best I can tell from the order
> in the log) before the checkpoint routine even gets executed, but always right
> before.  How does it know?

Hrm...  I bet that Solaris is letting the timer signal (that tells the MOO 
that it's time to do a checkpoint) interrupt the read() calls in 
lookup_name_from_addr() and lookup_addr_from_name().  I didn't think it was 
allowed to do that for read()s from pipes, but I don't have my POSIX manual 
with me at the moment...

Try adding this function to name_lookup.c:

	static int
	robust_read(int fd, char *buffer, int len)
	{
	    int count;

	    do {
		count = read(fd, buffer, len);
	    } while (count == -1 && errno == EINTR);

	    return count;
	}

and replace all of the other calls to read() with calls to robust_read() 
instead.  I'll make a note to check into this and, regardless, to add this fix 
to the distribution in the next release.

	Pavel

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 23 Dec 1994 19:19:36
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From:	Vijay Saraswat <saraswat@parc.xerox.com>
To:	frankc@netcom.com
CC:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-reply-to: Frank Crowell's message of Fri, 23 Dec 1994 15:20:00 -0800
Subject: Re: Paging to Robots
Message-Id: <94Dec23.191938pst.89813@rukmini.parc.xerox.com>
Date:	Fri, 23 Dec 1994 19:19:36 -0800

Is Colin the same source-code as ``Julia'', which I hear was also
developed by Michael Mauldin? 

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 23 Dec 1994 20:47:59
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From:	frankc@netcom.com (Frank Crowell)
Message-Id: <199412240448.UAA02852@netcom11.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Paging to Robots
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com (MOO-COWS)
Date:	Fri, 23 Dec 1994 20:47:59 -0800
In-Reply-To: <94Dec23.191938pst.89813@rukmini.parc.xerox.com> from "Vijay Saraswat" at Dec 23, 94 07:19:36 pm
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> 
> Is Colin the same source-code as ``Julia'', which I hear was also
> developed by Michael Mauldin? 
> 
Same father for Colin, Gloria, and Julia.  Gloria and Julia are
missing, so I don't know if all the code is the same, but the 
core code is the same.

-frank

-- 
[Frank Crowell  			 frankc@netcom.COM]
[maddog's Studio ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/fr/frankc/maddog.html]

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 24 Dec 1994 04:22:27
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From:	Alex Stewart <riche@crl.com>
Message-Id: <199412241222.AA23868@crl.crl.com>
Subject: Re: Regularizing the "x" bit
To:	steve@unicorn.dungeon.com (Steve Brown)
Date:	Sat, 24 Dec 1994 04:22:27 -0800
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-Reply-To: <199412231131.LAA04363@unicorn.dungeon.com> from "Steve Brown" at Dec 23, 94 11:31:30 am
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> Yes, I can see a problem here which became apparent to me only just the other
> day. One of my players inadvertantly trapped me as a wizard in a room of his
> by creating a clever exitfunc on the room. The only way I could get out was
> to !x the exitfunc. ( I guess I could have removed the verb altogether but
> since it had useful properties for normal players I didnt want to ).
> 
> I'd prefer !x to mean just that. Not executable.

You've apparently never heard of @rename?  You're gonna have to come up with a
better argument than that to convince me that regularizing the "x" bit is a bad
thing..

-R
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Alex Stewart - riche@crl.com - Richelieu @ Diversity University MOO
              ftp://ftp.crl.com/users/ro/riche/html/riche.html

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 24 Dec 1994 07:12:49
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Date:	Sat, 24 Dec 1994 07:12:49 -0800
From:	ken@odin.stockton.edu (Ken Tompkins)
Message-Id: <9412241512.AA11203@odin.stockton.edu>
To:	MERCER@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu, moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re:  paging robots

Eric...

First of all, thanks for all the help last night. I have ported
the code successfully though I'm not sure I have the permissions
and ownership set right.

The robot -- gtr (#150) and child tutor (#120) -- work except
for the paging. The page is received but not responded to.

As far as ownership, the generic is owned by Aeshere (my wiz account)
but the child I have set to kent (my normal account). I have set the
gtr as rf. I have also set both to players with the $wiz_utils (when
I first activated them they could not receive pages because they
were not set at players (thanks for that little clue)).

I had to add three properties -- real_work, real_name and art_type.
At present these are owned by my wiz account and are r only. This
means that I can't set the real work, etc. Not really a problem now;
the paging is far more important.

So I am not sure why the paging doesn't work; the port seems ok.
I sense that something is not set right -- that is, that it isn't
an error but rather something minor but critical.

Wonder if you have suggestions?

ken tompkins

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 24 Dec 1994 10:58:00
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Date:	Sat, 24 Dec 1994 10:58:00 -0800
From:	Quinn <quinn@access.mountain.net>
Message-Id: <199412241858.NAA04080@Access.Mountain.Net>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: break/continue

:| ++ Statements analogous to `break' and `continue' from C
:|         I haven't completely decided on the form this will take,
:|         but it will probably allow exit/continuation of any 
:|         surrounding loop, not just the innermost one as in C.

Are these due anytime soon?  If what makes it the ++ is allowing
 breaking from more than just the innermost loop, then why not
 save that for later and implement simpler versions now, with
 syntax open for expansion?

These would be really nice statements to have.

And something to really play with, not just another bugfix.

whine whine whine be my santa pavel

-Quinn

From someone 24 Dec 1994 19:50:09
Replied: Mon, 26 Dec 94 12:39:08 -0800
Replied: Neuromancer <dbliss@franco.csm.uc.edu>
Replied: moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
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Date:	Sat, 24 Dec 1994 19:50:09 -0800
From:	Neuromancer <dbliss@franco.csm.uc.edu>
Subject: shutdown()
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <199412250350.WAA10173@franco.csm.uc.edu>

There's a comment in the code for bf_shutdown() in server.c that says
that stream S and it's contents will leak but we don't care because
we're shutting down.  this is /before/ the perm check.  so does this imply
that if I do a billion shutdown("")'s on lagda the server will leak and crash?
just wondering.

neuro

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 25 Dec 1994 01:15:16
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Date:	Sun, 25 Dec 1994 01:15:16 -0800
From:	Yesod Aia <ajax@pollux.indstate.edu>
Subject: $login, #0
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412250915.AA01670@pollux.indstate.edu>

Tinkering with #0:do_login_command has always been a failing venture for me.

Is it a misconception that #0:do_login_command returns the objnum of the player
to which the db should connect?

I.E.

In my database, if #0:do_login_command were

#0:do_login_command
passwd = "";
notify(player, "PASSWORD")
passwrd = tostr(read());
if(passwrd == "jumbalaya")
  return #2;
endif
.


I can never get in by typing "jumbalaya" at the PASSWORD prompt.

What am I missing?



-- 
Yesod Aia		 | Snappy quotations, disclaimer, work schedule,
ajax@castor.indstate.edu | affiliation and pgp shit available via finger.

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 25 Dec 1994 05:33:07
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Date:	Sun, 25 Dec 1994 05:33:07 -0800
From:	ken@odin.stockton.edu (Ken Tompkins)
Message-Id: <9412251333.AA19829@odin.stockton.edu>
To:	MERCER@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu, moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re:  paging robots

Eric....

On the business of whether the robot is on: if I type
#120 on I get

     ==> 0

If I type @set #120.on to 1 I get Property #120.on set to 1

YET

when I type #120 on I still get

     ==> 0

Shouldn't it show up as 1? Maybe it is not turned on. Hmmmmm

ken tompkins

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 25 Dec 1994 07:19:26
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Date:	Sun, 25 Dec 1994 07:19:26 -0800
From:	ken@odin.stockton.edu (Ken Tompkins)
Message-Id: <9412251519.AA19934@odin.stockton.edu>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: My Apologies

I apologize to moo-cows and its readers for my recent
messages to Eric Mercer which were copied to this list.
Just too fast on the "re" keys without thinking.

Ken Tompkins
Richard Stockton College
BlueMoon

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 25 Dec 1994 09:35:54
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Date:	Sun, 25 Dec 1994 09:35:54 -0800
From:	paul@solar.sky.net
Subject: Re: $login, #0
In-Reply-to: "<9412250915.AA01670@pollux.indstate.edu> from \"Yesod Aia\" at Dec 25, 94 01:15:16 amox"
To:	ajax@pollux.indstate.edu (Yesod Aia)
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <94Dec25.093652pst."14522(3)"@alpha.xerox.com>

> In my database, if #0:do_login_command were
> 
> #0:do_login_command
> passwd = "";
> notify(player, "PASSWORD")
> passwrd = tostr(read());
> if(passwrd == "jumbalaya")
>   return #2;
> endif
> .
read() needs the argument of the connection to read ('player' here).
try that.

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 25 Dec 1994 11:07:56
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Date:	Sun, 25 Dec 1994 11:07:56 -0800
From:	nils mccarthy <nils@mcmuse.mc.maricopa.edu>
Subject: Re: $login, #0
In-Reply-to: "Your message of \"Sun, 25 Dec 1994 01:15:16 PST.\"
             <9412250915.AA01670@pollux.indstate.edu>)
      "
To:	Yesod Aia <ajax@pollux.indstate.edu>
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <199412251907.MAA04013@mcmuse.mc.maricopa.edu>

#0:do_login_command can't log a connection in if it uses suspend() or
read().  It's annoying, but it's workaroundable:

#0:do_login_command
if (player in this.pending_passwrd)
  this.pending_passwrd = setremove(this.pending_passwrd, player);
  if (argstr == "jumbalaya")
    return #2;
  endif
else
  notify(player,"PASSWORD");
endif


It would be nice, though, to have a primitive that would connect an
unconnected connection, so you don't have to play around with saving
state, and can keep your code more readable.

-nils

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 25 Dec 1994 11:26:07
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Date:	Sun, 25 Dec 1994 11:26:07 -0800
From:	Quinn <quinn@access.mountain.net>
Subject: Re: $login, #0
To:	ajax@pollux.indstate.edu, paul@solar.sky.net
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <199412251926.OAA09743@Access.Mountain.Net>

:| read() needs the argument of the connection to read ('player'
:| here). try that.

No--read() doesn't work in server tasks.

What he could do is:

notify(player, "PASSWORD: ");
if (argstr == "jumbalaya")
  return #2;
endif

Though it'd be cooler if you had the patch that didn't print
 a newline.

-Quinn

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 25 Dec 1994 11:34:26
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Date:	Sun, 25 Dec 1994 11:34:26 -0800
Sender: sir@kanga.ins.cwru.edu
From:	sir@po.cwru.edu (Seth I. Rich)
Subject: Re: $login, #0
To:	ajax@pollux.indstate.edu, MOO-Cows.PARC@xerox.com
Reply-to: sir@po.cwru.edu (Seth I. Rich)
Message-ID: <199412251934.OAA18114@kanga.INS.CWRU.Edu>

>#0:do_login_command
>passwd = "";
>notify(player, "PASSWORD")
>passwrd = tostr(read());
>if(passwrd == "jumbalaya")
>  return #2;
>endif

You can't read() within the :do_login_command task.  After having done
that, the value returned to the server is ignored.  Actually, you can't
suspend() within the :do_logon_command, which includes doing a read().

Seth / Blackbriar

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seth I. Rich                        No snappy patter.
OpalMOO II, coming soon!            No witty slogan.
Rabbits on walls, no problem.       No luck. No dice.

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 25 Dec 1994 13:56:21
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X-NS-Transport-ID: 0800201068920094AF2D
Date:	Sun, 25 Dec 1994 13:56:21 -0800
Sender: sir@kanga.ins.cwru.edu
From:	sir@po.cwru.edu (Seth I. Rich)
Subject: Re: Features
To:	ebasta@acns.fsu.edu, moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Reply-to: sir@po.cwru.edu (Seth I. Rich)
Message-ID: <199412252156.QAA09090@kanga.INS.CWRU.Edu>

>I can't find any help files that tell me anything other than to make sure
>to put the verbs in .feature_verbs by using set_feature_verbs and to set
>.feature_ok to 1.

Have you made sure that the verb you're trying to call is +x?

Seth / Blackbriar

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seth I. Rich                        No snappy patter.
OpalMOO II, coming soon!            No witty slogan.
Rabbits on walls, no problem.       No luck. No dice.

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 25 Dec 1994 13:58:18
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Date:	Sun, 25 Dec 1994 13:58:18 -0800
From:	Yesod Aia <ajax@castor.indstate.edu>
Subject: Login woes
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412252158.AA01366@castor.indstate.edu>

Okay, so if read() can't be called in do_login_command or any verb it calls,
you are limited to one line of input for the login command?


-- 
Yesod Aia		 | Snappy quotations, disclaimer, work schedule,
ajax@castor.indstate.edu | affiliation and pgp shit available via finger.

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 25 Dec 1994 13:58:33
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	id QAA09432; Sun, 25 Dec 1994 16:58:33 -0500 (from sir)
X-NS-Transport-ID: 0800201068920094AF31
Date:	Sun, 25 Dec 1994 13:58:33 -0800
Sender: sir@kanga.ins.cwru.edu
From:	sir@po.cwru.edu (Seth I. Rich)
Subject: Re: Regularizing the "x" bit
To:	steve@unicorn.dungeon.com, moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Reply-to: sir@po.cwru.edu (Seth I. Rich)
Message-ID: <199412252158.QAA09432@kanga.INS.CWRU.Edu>

>Yes, I can see a problem here which became apparent to me only just the other
>day. One of my players inadvertantly trapped me as a wizard in a room of his
>by creating a clever exitfunc on the room. 

Damn, that must have been -very- clever programming, since $wiz:moveto
has paranoid permissions checks.

Seth / Blackbriar

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seth I. Rich                        No snappy patter.
OpalMOO II, coming soon!            No witty slogan.
Rabbits on walls, no problem.       No luck. No dice.

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 25 Dec 1994 14:02:09
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	id RAA10138; Sun, 25 Dec 1994 17:02:09 -0500 (from sir)
X-NS-Transport-ID: 0800201068920094AF34
Date:	Sun, 25 Dec 1994 14:02:09 -0800
Sender: sir@kanga.ins.cwru.edu
From:	sir@po.cwru.edu (Seth I. Rich)
Subject: Re: Regularizing the "x" bit
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Reply-to: sir@po.cwru.edu (Seth I. Rich)
Message-ID: <199412252202.RAA10138@kanga.INS.CWRU.Edu>

I don't like the idea of regularizing the `x' bit because we have so much
code which makes assumptions about it.  What is a programmer supposed to
do if he doesn't want to be able to call his own allegedly secure verb?

Than again, I argued a lot about clear properties too, and I like them a
lot now.

Seth / Blackbriar

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seth I. Rich                        No snappy patter.
OpalMOO II, coming soon!            No witty slogan.
Rabbits on walls, no problem.       No luck. No dice.

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 25 Dec 1994 14:17:00
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	id RAA12192; Sun, 25 Dec 1994 17:17:00 -0500 (from sir)
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Date:	Sun, 25 Dec 1994 14:17:00 -0800
Sender: sir@kanga.ins.cwru.edu
From:	sir@po.cwru.edu (Seth I. Rich)
Subject: LambdaCore $player:my_huh security patch
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Reply-to: sir@po.cwru.edu (Seth I. Rich)
Message-ID: <199412252217.RAA12192@kanga.INS.CWRU.Edu>

A security hole in the :my_huh process (the part of :huh parsing which 
handles feature objects, in LambdaCore) has been discovered, which 
permits player class owners to run feature commands with their 
children's permissions.  This is an undertandably bad hole, especially
if your MOO moves functions from player classes and moves them onto
features, and uses caller_perms() to check permissions.

The permissions checks on $player:my_huh reads:
  if ((caller != this) && (!$perm_utils:controls(caller_perms(), this)))
    "Standard permissions check";
    return E_PERM;
  endif;
.. and then goes on to do a
  set_task_perms(this);
later in the verb.

I recommend either changing that if statement to remove the
(caller!=this) check, or leaving it in and changing the set_task_perms()
to a set_task_perms(caller_perms()).  How your MOO uses :my_huh would be
the best way to tell which is the better change.

Seth / Blackbriar

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seth I. Rich                        No snappy patter.
OpalMOO II, coming soon!            No witty slogan.
Rabbits on walls, no problem.       No luck. No dice.

From someone 25 Dec 1994 10:30:07
Replied: Mon, 26 Dec 94 12:45:10 -0800
Replied: Kenny Root <kenny@freak.org>
Replied: moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
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Date:	Sun, 25 Dec 1994 10:30:07 -0800
From:	Kenny Root <kenny@freak.org>
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Adding a new token to MOO parsing
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.941225122708.609A-100000@Freak.ORG>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I would like to add a new token `**' to parsing, but I don't know how 
exactly to go about doing this in the LambdaMOO source code.  I want it 
to turn off debugging for a single expression like this:

return (** x.gender ** || "it");

Where if x.gender had an error, it would just return "it".

aTdHvAaNnKcSe,
 Kenny Root

--
kenny@freak.org -- Mud FREAKS Anonymous.  Stop by freak.org 7777 for a tour
                   of the MOOniverse.

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 25 Dec 1994 17:07:34
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Date:	Sun, 25 Dec 1994 17:07:34 -0800
From:	Wesley Cooper <wcooper@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>
Subject: new mail notification
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Message-ID: <Pine.3.87.9412251834.A230673-0100000@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I'm beginning to work on a new MOO, and my technically clueful partner is 
on holiday.  Could someone tell me how to tweak the MOOmail system so 
that players are notified of new mail?
Thanks,
Wes Cooper
Walden Pond MOO


From someone 26 Dec 1994 01:28:19
Replied: Mon, 26 Dec 94 12:47:07 -0800
Replied: Neuromancer <dbliss@franco.csm.uc.edu>
Replied: moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
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Date:	Mon, 26 Dec 1994 01:28:19 -0800
From:	Neuromancer <dbliss@franco.csm.uc.edu>
Subject: bug
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <199412260928.EAA12181@franco.csm.uc.edu>

>> Network buffer overflow: 1 line of output to you have been lost <<

Should be 'has'.  Since you're bothering to say line instead of lines
or line(s). :)

neuro

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 26 Dec 1994 12:39:07
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Date:	Mon, 26 Dec 1994 12:39:07 -0800
From:	Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Subject: Re: shutdown()
In-Reply-to: "Neuromancer's message of \"Sat, 24 Dec 94 19:50:09 PST\"
             <199412250350.WAA10173@franco.csm.uc.edu> "
To:	Neuromancer <dbliss@franco.csm.uc.edu>
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <94Dec26.123923pst.162695@mu.parc.xerox.com>

Neuromancer writes:
> There's a comment in the code for bf_shutdown() in server.c that says
> that stream S and it's contents will leak but we don't care because
> we're shutting down.  this is /before/ the perm check.  so does this imply
> that if I do a billion shutdown("")'s on lagda the server will leak and crash?

No.  The comment is before the perms check, but the allocation is after it.

	Pavel

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 26 Dec 1994 12:45:08
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To:	Kenny Root <kenny@freak.org>
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Adding a new token to MOO parsing 
In-reply-to: Kenny Root's message of "Sun, 25 Dec 94 10:30:07 PST"
             <Pine.LNX.3.91.941225122708.609A-100000@Freak.ORG> 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date:	Mon, 26 Dec 1994 12:45:08 -0800
Sender: Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
From:	Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Message-Id: <94Dec26.124925pst.162698@mu.parc.xerox.com>

Kenny Root writes:
> I would like to add a new token `**' to parsing, but I don't know how 
> exactly to go about doing this in the LambdaMOO source code.  I want it 
> to turn off debugging for a single expression like this:
> 
> return (** x.gender ** || "it");
> 
> Where if x.gender had an error, it would just return "it".

This is *much* more substantial a change than simply adding a token to the 
parser; it involves significant changes to the parser, code generator, 
interpreter, decompiler, and unparser.  I suggest you just wait for 1.8.0, 
which already includes a construct like this.  [No, it's not *quite* time to 
ask about when it will be available...]

	Pavel

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 26 Dec 1994 12:47:06
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Date:	Mon, 26 Dec 1994 12:47:06 -0800
From:	Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Subject: Re: bug
In-Reply-to: "Neuromancer's message of \"Mon, 26 Dec 94 01:28:19 PST\"
             <199412260928.EAA12181@franco.csm.uc.edu>f"
To:	Neuromancer <dbliss@franco.csm.uc.edu>
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <94Dec26.125042pst.162699@mu.parc.xerox.com>

Neuromancer writes:
> >> Network buffer overflow: 1 line of output to you have been lost <<
> 
> Should be 'has'.  Since you're bothering to say line instead of lines
> or line(s). :)

Horrors, how embarrassing!  :-)

Fixed in the next release.

	Pavel

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 26 Dec 1994 16:42:53
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Date:	Mon, 26 Dec 1994 16:42:53 -0800
From:	Amit Patel <amitp@cs.stanford.edu>
Subject: New Year's Resolution
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412270042.AA02978@Xenon.Stanford.EDU>

I will not ask about 1.8.0
I will not ask about 1.8.0
I will not ask about 1.9.0

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 26 Dec 1994 20:19:30
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	id XAA16944; Mon, 26 Dec 1994 23:19:30 -0500 (from sir)
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Date:	Mon, 26 Dec 1994 20:19:30 -0800
Sender: sir@kanga.ins.cwru.edu
From:	sir@po.cwru.edu (Seth I. Rich)
Subject: regularizing the x bit
To:	MOO-Cows.PARC@xerox.com
Reply-to: sir@po.cwru.edu (Seth I. Rich)
Message-ID: <199412270419.XAA16944@kanga.INS.CWRU.Edu>

Actually, I just came up with a reason why the `x' bit might not want to
be regularized.  When I'm wizardly, I know I'll be able to read
anything, walk through walls, write anywhere.  So I make sure I'm in the
right window before I move or hack.  (No big; I rarely have more than
one window anyway.)

However, I can assume that programs will behave the same for me as for
other people, largely.  Regularizing the `x' but means that it's quite
possible that when I type a command it will produce a series of verb
calls which is different than the series executed for other people.  Is
this a concern I should pay any attention to?

See, the only places the server cares about these things are when we
call builtins.  add_verb() cares about ownership (and writability, etc).
move() cares about :accept (and wizardliness, etc).  Those are builtins.
We're talking about modifying a portion of the language to care about
these things... Hm.

I confess I don't much like the idea of having to start my !x verbs with
code like:
  if (callers())
    return E_PERM;
  endif;
... but it looks like that's the way it'd be.

Seth / Blackbriar

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seth I. Rich                        No snappy patter.
OpalMOO II, coming soon!            No witty slogan.
Rabbits on walls, no problem.       No luck. No dice.

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 26 Dec 1994 22:44:04
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From:	Zebee Johnstone <zjohnsto@alsvid.scu.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199412270644.AA07000@alsvid.scu.edu.au>
Subject: editing objects
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Date:	Mon, 26 Dec 1994 22:44:04 -0800
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As I attempt to understand how administrate a moo..


I want to edit some of the generic objets - $room, $exit etc.

What is the best method to do this?  maintain a file outside
the moo and quote it in?  Use the editor?

I'm looking for a reasonable safe and consistent way to edit 
important objects.

Zebee

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 27 Dec 1994 23:56:00
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Date:	Tue, 27 Dec 1994 23:56:00 -0800
From:	kmp@harlequin.com
Subject: editing objects
To:	zjohnsto@alsvid.scu.edu.au
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-Reply-To: <199412270644.AA07000@alsvid.scu.edu.au>
Message-Id: <19941228075623.7.KMP@BALBOA.Harlequin.COM>

    Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 01:44 EST
    From: Zebee Johnstone <zjohnsto@alsvid.scu.edu.au>

    I want to edit some of the generic objets - $room, $exit etc.  What is
    the best method to do this?  maintain a file outside the moo and quote
    it in?  Use the editor?  I'm looking for a reasonable safe and
    consistent way to edit important objects.

In my opinion, asking what technology to use to system generics is the
wrong question.  My recommendation is that you practice on some personal
objects until you are sure you have the mechanics of editing
well-understood before you start editing system objects.  The only
difference between editing system generics and editing personal
objects/generics is how much pain you'll feel if you make a mistake.  
Once you are comfortable editing in general, you can edit system 
generics in the same way.

I do recommend saving an old copy of something you're uncertain of by
doing
  @copy #nnn:whatever to #nnn:whatever(old)
so that you can later do
  @copy #nnn:whatever(old) to #nnn:whatever
in case you make an error.

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 28 Dec 1994 09:00:01
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From:	"Nate Massey" <natem@ctdnet.acns.nwu.edu>
Message-Id: <9412281700.AA27360@ctdnet.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject: Nasty bug...
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Date:	Wed, 28 Dec 1994 09:00:01 -0800
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I don't know anything about the C source in MOO... I've
never looked at it, so I can't tell you the source of 
the bug.  HOWEVER, I know it works.  And it is pretty
bad.  Someone did it on my MOO, and a friend of his
figured out how and told me.  (I woulda set a server_log()
in his eval if she hadn't told me, but she made my life
easier...)  Anyways, here goes.

;;a={};a[1..$maxint]={};

If you are going to try it, DUMP FIRST.  On my MOO (both
times) we got a recursive panic.  Both times, the log
filled up with lines similar to:

Dec 28 10:47:48: *** VAR_REF: Impossible var type: 327680

(with varying intergers at the end).  There was a difference,
however, in the log between the first time it happened and
the second time -- the first, there was a traceback in the
log that told me that a certain player had used eval to generate
the error.

Anyways, just thought this was the best place to report it.

--TE

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 28 Dec 1994 09:31:31
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Date:	Wed, 28 Dec 1994 09:31:31 -0800
From:	Neuromancer <dbliss@franco.csm.uc.edu>
Subject: ;a={};a[1..$maxint]={}
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <199412281731.MAA15601@franco.csm.uc.edu>


Doesn't crash my server, which us running /with/ the patch Pavel sent here
a while back.  Is this the same infamous bug that crashed Lambda twice?  Is
it something else that just happens to be fixed by the same patch?  Should
everyone running 1.7.8p4 apply the patch now that the eval to crash the
server is public-domain?  These and other questions, on the next Oprah.

neuro

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 28 Dec 1994 10:39:03
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	id NAA08318; Wed, 28 Dec 1994 13:39:03 -0500 (from aa902)
Message-Id: <199412281839.NAA08318@roo.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date:	Wed, 28 Dec 1994 10:39:03 -0800
From:	aa902@cleveland.freenet.edu (David Carlin)
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: ;a={};a[1..$maxint]={}
Reply-To: aa902@cleveland.freenet.edu (David Carlin)

>Doesn't crash my server, which us running /with/ the patch Pavel sent here
>a while back.  Is this the same infamous bug that crashed Lambda twice?  Is
>it something else that just happens to be fixed by the same patch?  Should
>everyone running 1.7.8p4 apply the patch now that the eval to crash the
>server is public-domain?  These and other questions, on the next Oprah.

It didn't crash my server either.  I also have the patch installed, and I'm
told it isn't specifically for 1.7.8p4.

         -David


--
David Carlin | aa902@po.cwru.edu | Home page: http://www.musenet.org/~zephyr
 aka Zephyr  |  Cleveland, Ohio  |-------------------------------------------
---------------------------------| Co-Sysop of The Cleveland Free-Net's
St. Ignatius High School C/o '97 | Multi-User Virtual Reality Sig (go mus)    

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 28 Dec 1994 11:26:53
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To:	natem@ctdnet.acns.nwu.edu
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-Reply-To: "Nate Massey"'s message of Wed, 28 Dec 1994 09:00:01 PST <9412281700.AA27360@ctdnet.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject: Nasty bug...

   From: "Nate Massey" <natem@ctdnet.acns.nwu.edu>
   Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 09:00:01 PST
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   ;;a={};a[1..$maxint]={};

   If you are going to try it, DUMP FIRST.  On my MOO (both
   times) we got a recursive panic.  Both times, the log
   filled up with lines similar to:

This was fixed with a recent patch, posted here.

...Zach

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 28 Dec 1994 11:05:01
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From:	azuki@ci.uminho.pt
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Subject: Re: ;a={};a[1..$maxint]={}
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Date:	Wed, 28 Dec 1994 11:05:01 -0800
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Well it doesn't crash if you do ;a={};a[1..$maxint]={} because the second
statements is not evaluated, do ;eval("a={};a[1..$maxint]={};") and you'll
see, i use 1.7.8p4 and it crashed mine.

Let me tell you to the person who posted this here that it was terribly
irresponsible to do so, this mail should go to pavel personally. Now
everyone has a weapon to crash MOOs.

-Oblivion@MOOsaico

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 28 Dec 1994 11:33:26
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From:	Chris Schlesiger <cschles@lamp0.arl.army.mil>
To:	David Carlin <aa902@cleveland.freenet.edu>
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: ;a={};a[1..$maxint]={}
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On Wed, 28 Dec 1994, David Carlin wrote:

> >Doesn't crash my server, which us running /with/ the patch Pavel sent here
> >a while back.  Is this the same infamous bug that crashed Lambda twice?  Is
> >it something else that just happens to be fixed by the same patch?  Should
> >everyone running 1.7.8p4 apply the patch now that the eval to crash the
> >server is public-domain?  These and other questions, on the next Oprah.
> 
> It didn't crash my server either.  I also have the patch installed, and I'm
> told it isn't specifically for 1.7.8p4.
> 
>          -David

Right. That was the infamous bug that crashed Lambda twice. So do apply 
that patch that Pavel sent a few days ago and you'll be a-ok.

CDRS

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 28 Dec 1994 11:54:43
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Message-Id: <199412281954.OAA20809@roo.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date:	Wed, 28 Dec 1994 11:54:43 -0800
From:	aa902@cleveland.freenet.edu (David Carlin)
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: ;a={};a[1..$maxint]={}
Reply-To: aa902@cleveland.freenet.edu (David Carlin)

>Well it doesn't crash if you do ;a={};a[1..$maxint]={} because the second
>statements is not evaluated, do ;eval("a={};a[1..$maxint]={};") and you'll
>see, i use 1.7.8p4 and it crashed mine.
>
>Let me tell you to the person who posted this here that it was terribly
>irresponsible to do so, this mail should go to pavel personally. Now
>everyone has a weapon to crash MOOs.
>
>-Oblivion@MOOsaico

I don't think it was irresponsible of him.  This discussion group is for
problems one might have with their moo.  Besides, just install the the
source patch and everything works fine.

             -David

--
David Carlin | aa902@po.cwru.edu | Home page: http://www.musenet.org/~zephyr
 aka Zephyr  |  Cleveland, Ohio  |-------------------------------------------
---------------------------------| Co-Sysop of The Cleveland Free-Net's
St. Ignatius High School C/o '97 | Multi-User Virtual Reality Sig (go mus)    

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 28 Dec 1994 14:15:52
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From:	azuki@ci.uminho.pt
Message-Id: <9412282215.AA28920@orpheu.ci.uminho.pt>
Subject: Re: ;a={};a[1..$maxint]={}
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
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Well sorry if i sounded too hasty, I haven't read MOO Cows in a while and it is
not a good subject to start reading... I was just imagining the situation
thinking that there was no patch... Not what i wanted Santa to give me for
Christmas i assure you...

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 28 Dec 1994 13:27:12
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From:	Steve Brown <steve@unicorn.dungeon.com>
Message-Id: <199412282227.WAA09003@unicorn.dungeon.com>
Subject: MOO Server quits accepting input.....
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Date:	Wed, 28 Dec 1994 13:27:12 -0800
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Hi Folks,
	I've probably missed something vital but anyway, here goes.....
I'm running 1.8.p4 on Linux, using a 486DX2/66 with 32 Megs of RAM.... 
For some reason which I cannot locate ANYTHING in any logs that will help,
the thing just stops accepting input, be it from existing connections or
new connections, yet the server is still running because it will send output
correctly ( I only know this because it died once and then a few minutes later
the checkpoint kicked in and I got it set up so it tells me when it 
checkpoints :) )

The only thing I can do with it in this state is to kill the process. This
happens even with a brand new database, with only me connected..... No forks,
nothing happening.... Its horrible! Is it Linux, or is it the MOO server?

Any help greatly appreciated - if you need more information - ask away.

Regards,
Steve.

-- 
*******************************************************************************
Dungeon Network Systems, Full Internet Service in the UK.   * 10 UKP per month.
Call (01638) 711550 ( voice ) or email info@dungeon.com     * FIRST MONTH FREE!
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From someone 28 Dec 1994 21:31:45
Replied: Thu, 29 Dec 94 16:25:05 -0800
Replied: asb@media.mit.edu
Replied: moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
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Date:	Wed, 28 Dec 1994 21:31:45 -0800
From:	asb@media.mit.edu
Subject: lag of 2204 seconds and climbing
To:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <9412290531.AA01337@media.mit.edu>


Yikes, what's with Lambda?

I suddenly got "*** Disconnected ***" for no noticeable reason, and now
trying to reconnect:
"The lag is approximately 2204 seconds; there are 6 connected."

(Needless to say, the login screen times out before 36 minutes have
passed to process your login command.  :-)

-- Amy

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 28 Dec 1994 22:08:53
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From:	abakun@rci.ripco.com (Thwarted Efforts)
Subject: MOO Server quits accepting input.....
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Date:	Wed, 28 Dec 1994 22:08:53 -0800
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I doubt it is a problem with linux, since I had no problems running under Linux on a 386 or a Pentium (never ran on a 486, tho, might be some small bug)
It could be that your linux is not configured correctly for the network stuff.. 

ThwartedEfforts
http://www.interaccess.com/users/abakun

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 29 Dec 1994 11:19:14
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To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Cc:	nelsonm@ctron.com
Reply-To: nelsonm@ctron.com
Subject: length(LIST)
X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5omega 10/6/94
Date:	Thu, 29 Dec 1994 11:19:14 -0800
From:	Matt Nelson <nelsonm@indikos.ctron.com>


I am building an object to manage a dynamic list of an estimated 400-500
elements. I am wondering how efficient length() is on a list of this
size, and if it would be worth my while to code my object to maintain a
length property instead of depending on length().

- Matt

-----------
Matthew T. Nelson
nelsonm@ctron.com
Sales Systems Administrator
Cabletron Systems, Inc.


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 29 Dec 1994 11:37:25
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To:	nelsonm@ctron.com
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: length(LIST) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 29 Dec 1994 11:19:14 PST."
             <9412291919.AA08506@indikos> 
Date:	Thu, 29 Dec 1994 11:37:25 -0800
From:	Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>


> I am building an object to manage a dynamic list of an estimated
> 400-500 elements. I am wondering how efficient length() is on a list
> of this size, and if it would be worth my while to code my object to
> maintain a length property instead of depending on length().

length() in MOO is a fast, constant-time operation.  Lists in MOO are
stored as arrays, not as linked lists.

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 29 Dec 1994 11:41:55
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Date:	Thu, 29 Dec 1994 11:41:55 -0800
From:	"Zachary M. Loafman" <zml@metronet.com>
Message-Id: <199412291941.AA28916@metronet.com>
To:	nelsonm@ctron.com
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com, nelsonm@ctron.com
In-Reply-To: Matt Nelson's message of Thu, 29 Dec 1994 11:19:14 PST <9412291919.AA08506@indikos>
Subject: length(LIST)

   Reply-To: nelsonm@ctron.com
   X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5omega 10/6/94
   Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 11:19:14 PST
   From: Matt Nelson <nelsonm@indikos.ctron.com>


   I am building an object to manage a dynamic list of an estimated 400-500
   elements. I am wondering how efficient length() is on a list of this
   size, and if it would be worth my while to code my object to maintain a
   length property instead of depending on length().

   - Matt

   -----------
   Matthew T. Nelson
   nelsonm@ctron.com
   Sales Systems Administrator
   Cabletron Systems, Inc.



I did the following test on my MOO..

I setup a little verbie, test, to build a list of 500 and 1000 strings, just to test the ticks and seconds used by length.

(first run)
>; length(me.check)
=> 500
[used 6 ticks, 0 seconds.]

(second run)
>; length(me.check)
=> 1000
[used 6 ticks, 0 seconds.]


There ya' have it. length() seems to use 6 ticks if there's something
there.. So decide if you can keep your length prop up faster than a
measley 6 ticks. 

...Zach

From someone 29 Dec 1994 15:08:34
Replied: Thu, 29 Dec 94 18:10:18 -0800
Replied: sma1os@wizard.stark.k12.oh.us (Shawn Arbogast)
Replied: moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
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To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	sma1os@wizard.stark.k12.oh.us (Shawn Arbogast)
Subject: @shutdown didn't work?

        Hello.  I have a rather odd, but very important question to ask of
anyone to pleae tell me why this happened.  Today (29) the server that my
moo runs on frooze up and I had to shutdwon my moo, so I did.  however,
when the server was back up, and I restarted my moo, I found to my surprise
that it didn't start up correctly, it started up from a database that was 5
days old.
        I looked in the log and it said that I had issued a shutdown, then
it said it was dumping the database, and it never said it finished, but it
threw me off the moo since I always stay on to be sure it shutsdwon.  I can
find no resnable explantion for this except that it paniced for some
reason.  It left the db file there that is started to dump, but it wan't
even half the size it should have been.
        Uncertainly, i tried to start up from it, but it started up from a
db that was 6 days old.  So I shutdown the moo again, checked the log, and
this time it shutdown right.  Next I went to my backup that I had on tape
from 6 that morning.  I thouht this won't be that bad, a few hours loss.
        To my surprise, the moo started up with a db that was 5 days old.
I cannot figure this one out either.  I have my program (Retrospect) set to
backup the db files of my moo, but yet when I used them to restart I get a
db that is 5 days old?
        Is there something wrong with my machine, I don't think so, or is
it something in the server.  By the way I am running version 1.7.8p3
because another engineer wants us to wait till the next upgrade because of
the bugs in 1.7.8p4.
        Thanks for you help in advance.

Shawn Arbogast
Donut Engineer (no wiz's on this moo)
199.218.192.6 777


From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 29 Dec 1994 16:25:03
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Date:	Thu, 29 Dec 1994 16:25:03 -0800
From:	Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Subject: Re: lag of 2204 seconds and climbing
In-Reply-to: "asb@media.mit.edu's message of \"Wed, 28 Dec 94 21:31:45 PST\"
             <9412290531.AA01337@media.mit.edu>ds"
To:	asb@media.mit.edu
cc:	moo-cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <94Dec29.162517pst.162700@mu.parc.xerox.com>

asb@media.mit.edu writes:
> Yikes, what's with Lambda?

We were unavailable for a few hours last night, due to a cracking attempt.
We're back on the air now.  See `news new' on LambdaMOO for more information.

	Pavel

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 29 Dec 1994 16:46:01
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From:	abakun@rci.ripco.com (Thwarted Efforts)
Subject: re: Length()
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Date:	Thu, 29 Dec 1994 16:46:01 -0800
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This verb:

.program me:lentest
length({1});
.

disassembles to:

Main code vector:
=================
  0: 124           NUM 1
  1: 016         * MAKE_SINGLETON_LIST
  2: 016         * MAKE_SINGLETON_LIST
  3: 012 021     * CALL_FUNC length
  5: 111           POP
  6: 110           DONE

Note that the * represent ticks.

Which comes out to:
first tick:  make a list with the number 1 in it
2nd tick:    make the list into the argument list
3rd tick:    call the builtin length()

So, depending on how you are referencing the list, the first two ticks could be done different ways, if you had to reference a prop or just push a 
variable, then the number of ticks would be different, but the third tick above, the call to length(), will always be one tick (since, calling bi 
functions takes one tick).

But it's not really ticks we are concerned about, since ticks only represent the STEPS that your code takes, not how much time it takes.

Looking at the 'seconds' portion of the time (a misnomer :) ) will tell you how long it took the server to do the eval.  For lists under 1000 elements 
long, it should be under a second, but all that depends on what else is running on your machine and other things (CPU seconds or wall-clock seconds)... 
but if the server stores lists as arrays, then a simple math calculation will return the length of the list, no matter how big it is (a list of pointers? 
what about a list of list? an array of pointers to an array of pointers?  Havn't really looked at the srever code myself) the time will be constant 
(unless your system is stupid and uses somethign besides 2's-complement to do math :p )

Anyway, you can safly assume that calls to length() are going to both easier to handle and understand than trying to code the length yourself.
At the end, len will be the length of the list:

listappend(list, element);
len = length(list);
(three ticks? I think)

or

listappend(list, element);
this.list_length = this.list_length + 1;
len = this.list_length;
(five ticks?)

Multiply that by each list operation you want to perform, since you will have to update the length prop by hand each time.

Best ot use length(), after all, if Pavel wanted us to keep track of that ourselves, we would have complained about that long ago :) :)

Thwarted "tick'in" Efforts
http://www.interaccess.com/users/abakun

PS.  Be sure to set your .eval_ticks prop if you have something in your .eval_env prop, otherwise, your tick count will be off by how ever many ticks are 
.eval_env takes.  See help eval.

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 29 Dec 1994 18:10:16
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To:	sma1os@wizard.stark.k12.oh.us (Shawn Arbogast)
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: @shutdown didn't work? 
In-reply-to: Shawn Arbogast's message of "Thu, 29 Dec 94 15:08:34 PST"
             <199412292308.PAA01696@wizard.stark.k12.oh.us> 
Date:	Thu, 29 Dec 1994 18:10:16 -0800
Sender: Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
From:	Pavel Curtis <pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Message-Id: <94Dec29.181030pst.162695@mu.parc.xerox.com>

Shawn Arbogast writes:
>         Hello.  I have a rather odd, but very important question to ask of
> anyone to pleae tell me why this happened.  Today (29) the server that my
> moo runs on frooze up and I had to shutdwon my moo, so I did.  however,
> when the server was back up, and I restarted my moo, I found to my surprise
> that it didn't start up correctly, it started up from a database that was 5
> days old.
>         I looked in the log and it said that I had issued a shutdown, then
> it said it was dumping the database, and it never said it finished, but it
> threw me off the moo since I always stay on to be sure it shutsdwon.  I can
> find no resnable explantion for this except that it paniced for some
> reason.  It left the db file there that is started to dump, but it wan't
> even half the size it should have been.

The MOO always throws everybody off before starting the dump, to make sure that
there's no more DB mods during the dump.  It sounds like your machine rebooted
before the server had finished making the dump.  You should always check the
server log to make sure that it's done before actually restarting the hardware.

>         Uncertainly, i tried to start up from it, but it started up from a
> db that was 6 days old.  So I shutdown the moo again, checked the log, and
> this time it shutdown right.  Next I went to my backup that I had on tape
> from 6 that morning.  I thouht this won't be that bad, a few hours loss.
>         To my surprise, the moo started up with a db that was 5 days old.
> I cannot figure this one out either.  I have my program (Retrospect) set to
> backup the db files of my moo, but yet when I used them to restart I get a
> db that is 5 days old?

I don't understand this; the server certainly can't be coming up with a db from
5 days ago if you feed it the name of a current one.  Perhaps you've mis-named
the restored file?

	Pavel

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 29 Dec 1994 18:42:00
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Date:	Thu, 29 Dec 1994 18:42:00 -0800
From:	kmp@harlequin.com
Subject: length(LIST) -- counting ticks interactively
To:	zml@metronet.com
Cc:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-Reply-To: <199412291941.AA28916@metronet.com>
Message-Id: <19941230024211.9.KMP@BALBOA.Harlequin.COM>

    Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 14:41 EST
    From: "Zachary M. Loafman" <zml@metronet.com>

    ...
    >; length(me.check)
    => 1000
    [used 6 ticks, 0 seconds.]

    There ya' have it. length() seems to use 6 ticks ...

It is unlikely that this is really taking 6 ticks.  You should type ; by
itself and see how many ticks it takes and then set ;me.eval_ticks=<n>
where <n> is that number.  You may not be aware, but it is counting the
number of ticks for the setup code in me.eval_env in the number of ticks 
it shows in square-brackets after; that's usually a constant value that
me.eval_ticks is supposed to compensate for.

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 29 Dec 1994 22:33:52
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Subject: Re: length(LIST)
To:	ghudson@mit.edu (Greg Hudson)
Date:	Thu, 29 Dec 1994 22:33:52 -0800
Cc:	nelsonm@ctron.com, moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
In-Reply-To: <199412291937.OAA00272@glacier.MIT.EDU> from "Greg Hudson" at Dec 29, 94 11:37:25 am
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Greg Hudson drew these heiroglyphs:

> > I am building an object to manage a dynamic list of an estimated
> > 400-500 elements. I am wondering how efficient length() is on a list
> > of this size, and if it would be worth my while to code my object to
> > maintain a length property instead of depending on length().
> 
> length() in MOO is a fast, constant-time operation.  Lists in MOO are
> stored as arrays, not as linked lists.
> 

furthermore, the first element of the array is always of type NUM, and
holds the length of the list.  length() just looks at that element.

From someone 30 Dec 1994 05:19:50
Replied: Fri, 30 Dec 94 12:06:13 -0800
Replied: Oyasumi <tdagley@kendaco.telebyte.com>
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From:	Oyasumi <tdagley@kendaco.telebyte.com>
Subject: Two ideas for server hacks/builtins
To:	MOO-Cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.941230050834.31386A-100000@kendaco.telebyte.com>

Reasons for non-premption in moo.
  Code which relied on having control till it suspended would break.
  The server wasn't written that way, and would take a total re-write/db
  core re-write to convert it.

I have a possible solution.
The main problem is where tight while or for loops, of unknown length have
 to call either suspend(0) or $c_u:suspend_if_needed(0) on every iteration
  The first option, calling suspend makes the task take far longer, and
  makes the server transverse the task queue, every iteration of the loop.
  The second option, involves checking to see if there are enough ticks
  left every iteration, which is also a waste.

My solution, for this problem is to simple have the server suspend(0)
  a task which runs out of ticks, instead of raising an error.
  This would allow a tight loop, to use all of the available ticks,
  without having to pay a large amount out to the suspend if needed checks.
  Any other task which relies on having a suspend in a particular place, 
  wouldn't be affected by it, if it suspends without using up the 
  ticks (currently it would traceback anyway if it ran out.)

If Pavel likes this idea, maybe he will incorporate it in as either 
  a compile flag, or a $server_option.
If Pavel doesn't want to be bothered, are there any qualified server hackers
out there, who would be interested in hacking the server to do this?

While on topic of wastefull things, $s_u:print, should be replaced with a 
builtin. I am not talking hacking tostr(), but instead, writing a builtin
, that would take any input, whatsoever, and convert it to 
something notify can deal with. IE toascii(#50) would return "#50",
and toascii({#50, ", Lambda"}) would return "{#50, \", Lambda\"}" ....

I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet, no need to handle 
it recursively, just turn the whole thing into a string, where a string 
is converted into a \string.

This would be a very useful builtin for anyone out there who is doing 
moo->moo porting of verb_code() lists. No need to first pass them through 
a tick hog such as $s_u:print(). Just toascii() the whole thing, and notify
it out the connection object.

Anyone interested contact me at Worldmoo
NetBlazer

P.S. I would rather see Pavel handle this, since it would automatically 
be in any new servers he writes. But we need a builtin like the one I 
described, soon, and may not be able to wait for Pavel to put out a new 
server.

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 30 Dec 1994 12:03:03
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From:	abakun@rci.ripco.com (Thwarted Efforts)
Subject: re: Two ideas for server hacks/builtins
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
Date:	Fri, 30 Dec 1994 12:03:03 -0800
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NetBlazer, the tick hound that he is :), writes:

      The main problem is where tight while or for loops, of unknown
      length have to call either suspend(0) or $c_u:suspend_if_needed(0) 
      on every iteration. The first option, calling suspend makes the task 
      take far longer, and makes the server transverse the task queue, 
      every iteration of the loop. The second option, involves checking to
      see if there are enough ticks left every iteration, which is also 
      a waste.

Well, you could keep a counter variable and only call cu:suspend_if_needed(x) on every 4th or 5th iteration
through the loop.  You could also use the mod operator (named 'remainder' in the programmer's manual)
if you are traversing a range of numbers.  Or you could just check ticks_left() and seconds_left() yourself and do a "manual"
suspend_if_needed()

Of course, you can optimize loops that need to suspend by doing this:

cu = $command_utils;
for x in (bone)
  do = whatever with x
  cu:suspend_if_needed(0);    /* instead of $command_utils:suspe.... */
endfor

Then, if the loop is huge you will save one tick through the loop each time, since $command_utils is
a property reference and that costs one tick. (it's amazing what you can learn with disassemble()...
Thanks, Pavel!!)

      My solution, for this problem is to simple have the server 
      suspend(0) a task which runs out of ticks, instead of raising an error.  
      This would allow a tight loop, to use all of the available ticks, 
      without having to pay a large amount out to the suspend if needed checks. 
      Any other task which relies on having a suspend in a particular place, 
      wouldn't be affected by it, if it suspends without using up the ticks 
      (currently it would traceback anyway if it ran out.) 

And what if you get stuck in an infinite loop?  Bad point, I know, but....
I find tick limits to be one of the most useful features, since I can be sure that if my code is written to big
or does too much, then it will stop, even if I'm disconnected.

      While on topic of wastefull things, $s_u:print, should be replaced with
      a builtin. I am not talking hacking tostr(), but instead, writing a 
      builtin, that would take any input, whatsoever, and convert it to 
      something notify can deal with. IE toascii(#50) would return "#50", 
      and toascii({#50, ", Lambda"}) would return "{#50, \", Lambda\"}" ....

      I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet, no need to handle 
      it recursively, just turn the whole thing into a string, where a 
      string is converted into a \string.

Quinn handled this nicely with his toliteral() builtin.  Perhaps he will tell us where we can find it.
What does "a string converted to a \string mean"? A quoted string?

And while I will admit that you could just extract the string you are attempting to covert straight from the verb_code() (as in your example above)

toascii({#50, ", Lambda"})
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  only take those chars.

But that is totally useless, since it is VERY unlikely that what you want to convert will be hard coded, and if it is, then you should just hard code that string anyway.  The things you would be passing to your toascii() function would be in variables mos
t likely (or already on the call stack) as in:

x = verb_code(#0, "do_login_command");
y = toascii(x);

or

y = toascii(verb_code(#0, "do_login_command"));

I see no way to handle this efficiently in a non-recursive manner.  You could, but you would end up cutting and pasting alot of code.  If you have nested lists that you want to run through toascii(), you just call toascii() again with that list, and OS ta
kes care of handling what goes where when you pass the arguments recursively.  Incidently, this is a much better example of the power of recursion than the standard "text-book" example, namely the recursive factorial function.

      This would be a very useful builtin for anyone out there who is doing
      moo->moo porting of verb_code() lists. No need to first pass them 
      through a tick hog such as $s_u:print(). Just toascii() the whole thing, 
      and notify it out the connection object.

MOO to MOO code porting has not had a problem that things like toascii() would solve. After all, @dump works fine, my telnet room (which you know about) ports code (it does entire verb lists now (thanks Ice!)), there is an FO on Lambda that ports objects,
 and there are more out there, I'm sure.

Plus, anything that you convert to a string needs to be run through eval() to get the value back, add the time it takes to do that back in.

      But we need a builtin like the one I described, soon, and may not be 
      able to wait for Pavel to put out a new server.

What's the hurry?
Quinn, is your toliteral() mod avaiable via ftp from somewhere?  Is it fully debuged?  Can we get it?

From someone 30 Dec 1994 16:37:26
Replied: Mon, 02 Jan 95 16:00:55 -0800
Replied: sle@sensemedia.net (Samuel Latt Epstein)
Replied: moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
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Date:	Fri, 30 Dec 1994 16:37:26 -0800
To:	moo-cows@parc.xerox.com
From:	sle@sensemedia.net (Samuel Latt Epstein)
Subject: @shut-down

here is another cool way to achieve the same result... many MOOns ago...

mv a db file instead of cp ing it.

even if you mv it back... the server will chug for days quite happilly...
only when you finally shutdown (three days later in our case) you find that
the current db isnt closed.

why would someone do this? well trust me it can happen. can you say SCREWUP?

especially with all these handy mice lying around...

i wonder/request, in retrospect, idly dream about away to force a current db
save to another file... in our case it was quite frustrating (a whole
directory got moved) three dbs.  so when we figured out what happend to
db1... we sat on db two talking... trying to figure out a solution....and
then again on db3, and
came to the conclusion there wasnt a solution.

so...anycomments on @emergency-save-db or maybe @rocker-save?

rocker (smote 3 MOOs with a single swipe!)
chiba7 (its 6 better)



From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 31 Dec 1994 19:42:10
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From:	kcary@pepperdine.edu (Kim Cary)
Subject: New ArchWiz FAQ for December



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12/31/94
[Due to the recent release of a new LambdaCore.db and the 1.7.8p4 release of
the MOO server software, several items below may be out of date. They apply to
MOO 1.7.7 and the 21-Oct-93 release of LambdaCore.db. In addition, other MOOs
are starting to release core.dbs; as these become more popular it may be good
to try to note important new wiz info that differs from LambdaCore.db here.
Your contributions to information every new archwiz should know are more needed
than ever.]

This FAQ list is designed to help new MOO arch-wizards (MOO owners) get
answers to their questions. Entries come from items on the moo-cows
mail list, personal questions from experience on our MOO, and from your
contributions. The questions on this list most directly pertain to the core
database, LambdaCore; to the extent that the core db you start with differs
from LambdaCore, answers to these questions may vary from what is presented
here. There is a recent release of LambdaCore, but unless marked we're
talking about the 21-Oct-93 release.

*Substantial changes from last FAQ are marked with an asterisk at the head
of the line.

"I just got my MOO server going, now what?

Telnet to the server on the port you started it on (You did read the
included  documentation on starting the server, yes? You did use the
included restart script, yes?).

Now you should see:

        Trying...
        Connected to SERVER
        Escape character is '^]'.
        Welcome to the LambdaCore database.

        Type 'connect wizard' to log in.

        You will probably want to change this text, which is stored in
        $login.welcome_message.

So you'll type "connect wizard" and you'll see:

        *** Connected ***
        The First Room
        This is all there is right now.
        You see a newspaper here.

At this point you can do almost anything.  You'll first want to set
the wizard's password (@password).  Then you can type

        @display $login.
        help $login

to see other properties that you might want to set immediately.



"How do I ... ?

Wait! Did you 'read the manual'? The following are very useful:

        help wiz-index

           [contains all of the currently existing wizard-help topics]

        help core-index

           [contains all of the currently existing help topics
            about various core objects]

        help $login

           [will tell you about welcome messages, blacklists,
            redlists, enabling automatic player creation (allowing
            logins to create players immediately, see next)]



"How do I restrict creation of new characters to the @make-player command
(ie. prevent create <playername> <password> from the login screen?).

        @set $login.create_enabled to 0

This stops people from creating their own characters at the welcome
message. If you have a network active, the default seems to be that people
can still login as guest and create their own character with @request. We
hacked the @request verb to change this, but that may not be the easiest
of best solution.



"How do I edit my welcome screen?

You can set the welcome message with something like:

        @set $login.welcome_message to {"Welcome to...", "", "..."}

  or

        @notedit $login.welcome_message




"Why does mail to the internet fail when I create a character?

Make sure you compiled the MOO server with "outgoing network connections"
enabled (in the options.h file); you may also have to:

        @set $network.active to 1

The network is necessary so the server can automatically e-mail the new
user with their character name and password. You should also set the
properties on $network correctly for your MOO.



"What's the deal with @make-player? There's no help.

[The following help is from the help database on LambdaMOO, and could be
out in the *current core, but you don't have that or you wouldn't ask, eh?]

>help @make-player
@make-player name[,aliases] [email-address [commentary]]
Creates a player.
Generates a random password for the player.
Email-address is stored in $registration_db and on the player object.
Comments should be enclosed in quotes.

Example: @make-player George sanford@frobozz.com "George shares email
with Fred Sanford (Fred #5461)"

If the email address is already in use, prompts for confirmation.  If
the name is already in use, prompts for confirmation.  (Say no, this
is a bug: it will break if you say yes.)  If you say no at one of the
confirming prompts, character is not made.

If network is enabled (via $network.active) then asks if you want to
mail the password to the user after character is made.

[From Judy Anderson, who wrote the help for this on Lambda]



"How can I modify the text sent by email to new players upon character
creation?

It is generated on-the-fly by the $wiz_utils:send_new_player_mail verb. If
you'd like to change the text, edit the verb. Garth Kidd has come up with
an easier way to do this, involving modifying the verb to give it
properties you can edit to change the text. The modifications are at this
URL:

gopher://gsep.pepperdine.edu/00/gsep/technical/MUD-MOO/new-player-mail-moo.txt




"OK, I need some help here. How do I make a trusted player into a wizard?

Don't.  Instead, create a fresh player #p and do

        @chparent #p to $wiz
        @programmer #p
        ;#p.wizard=1

and then tell your helper the password to the new player. Alex Stewart
notes that adding the @programmer call avoids certain sticky situations
that might be encountered by non-programmer wizards.

The reason you really only want to do this with a freshly created
player is that every verb owned by the player will suddenly acquire
wizard permissions.  For an existing player, you'd need to go through
and make sure that player in question owns no verbs that will do any
damage if given wizard permissions (remember, anyone may call any verb...).
[from Roger Crew]



"How come no one can connect as guest?

Do

     @make-guest <guestname>

*then edit the description. Only ONE of the guest characters must be named or
aliased as 'guest' for guest connections to work. Try this:

*     @add-alias guest to <object# of first guest you made>

*Repeat @make-guest <guestname>, adding descriptions as you go, until you have
*a number of guests equal to your desired maximum number of guest connections.



"What should the new ArchWiz understand about permissions/security?

A lot. For now refer to #34443 on LambdaMOO (lambda.parc.xerox.com 8888);
this may appear later at ftp.parc.xerox.com. Or you can look through the
moo-cows archive available by ftp from ftp.parc.xerox.com for an article
with the following title (June 1994):

        Newbie wiz FAQ: Permissions/security

Here's some code you could put into a verb to help you find writeable verbs
that act with wizards authority (i.e. a verb anyone could modify, that has
the power of a wizard):

(perhaps call it: "@seek*holes findholes"   none none none)

count = 0;
wiz = "";
evil = " contains WWV";
for object in [1..tonum(max_object())]
  $command_utils:suspend_if_needed(0, tostr(object, "..."));
  object = toobj(object);
  if (valid(object) && length(vrbs = verbs(object)) != 0)
    for n in [1..length(vrbs)]
      $command_utils:suspend_if_needed(0, tostr(object, "..."));
      if (index(verb_info(object, tostr(n - 1))[2], "w") > 0)
        count = count + 1;
        if (verb_info(object, tostr(n - 1))[1].wizard == 1)
          wiz = "WIZARDLY ";
        else
          wiz = "";
        endif
        player:tell(wiz, "Object ", tostr(object), evil, " ", vrbs[n]);
      endif
    endfor
  endif
endfor
player:tell(count, " total.");

[contributed by MudOp@ripco.com, and modified by Scott Lynch]

Until you really grok permissions, it may be best to do all your
programming as a programmer character.



"No player's disconnect date is getting modified, what's up?
"No one is getting mail notification, what's wrong?

There seems to be a problem with the verb disfunc and confunc verbs on #6,
generic player on the distribution of LambdaCore-21Oct93.db. To fix it,
@edit #6:disfunc and also #6.confunc, and change each line 1 to this:

        if (valid(caller_perms()) && caller != this && caller != #0)

Of course, this only works for sure if you're using the above db version,
and haven't touched your disfunc and confunc verbs on this object. Be
careful.


"LambdaCore is awfully bare. How can I get some other objects and system
features into my MOO without recoding them from scratch?

[Hmm. Well in the sense that you don't get some system features (weather,
rpg system, diurnal environment, etc.) or objects (talking robots, morphing
player class, etc.) that you've seen on established MOOs I guess LambdaCore
could be called bare. LambdaCore is really a pretty complete base for
coding a MOO, with LOTS of underlying necessities that some would be bored
and frustrated to tears to have to code themselves. As more daughters of
the LambdaCore appear I'll list them here. Until then, the
only one I know of is OpalCore, available by asking Blackbriar at OpalMoo.
OK, enough editorial on with the question. ed.]

The recommended procedure for porting objects presently has two components:
social and technical.

+Social: There are copyright & courtesy issues involved with porting other
people's code to your MOO. The practical advice that results from these
considerations seems to be:

        -If the object/code explicitly states you can copy it, or
         you have secured the author's permission, port it.
        -If not, don't port it.

This can be a bit frustrating if you want object xyz but xyz's author
hasn't logged on in 8 months. The suggestion at that point is to look at
the code and try to understand what is being done, then program an object
with similar but improved functions.

Many people say porting MOO objects is a good way to learn MOO programming;
others are hostile toward the idea of non-programmers porting objects at
all. Let the reader decide, but understand that not everyone thinks porting
is a great thing, even when you are courteous, and respect copyright.

+Technical: Currently there are lots of gotchas to porting objects, most of
them related to coding irregularities on the original objects, and to MOO
client operations. Only a couple of those are dealt with here; until
someone develops a robust portability system for MOO, you _will_ run into
problems from time to time. When that happens, there is nothing like being,
or being good friends with, an accomplished MOO programmer. Here is one
recommended procedure:


1.      On the MOO you're porting the object to, @create using the
        apropriate parent, and note down the new object number (#xxxx).

2.      Turn on recording and turn off autowrap on your client; you do
        this to record dump your about to do on the source moo.

3.      On the MOO you're porting object #nnnn from:

        a.      @wrap off

        b.      @dump #nnnn with create id=#xxxx

4.      Edit the dump you recorded.

        a.      Remove the @create from the first line from the first line
                of the dump, since you've already created the object.

        b.      Scan for hard-coded object numbers other than the one
                that is the object you created. Fix those, pointing them to the
                correct object on your MOO, or recoding so they're not needed.

        c.      Scan for things that might have inadvertently been captured
                along with the dump, e.g.:

                You sense that Nern is looking for you in the Living Room:
                Nern pages, "Come out and help me torture some guests."

4.      Upload the dump to your MOO with your client; this dump script will
        put the properties and verbs on the object.

5.      Now, test and/or debug the object.

[Thanks to Judy Anderson, for some of the nitty gritty details above; if
something is in error, it is one of my ad-libs, -ed.].


*"I dumped this object, but it has a few hundred properties containing object
*numbers from objects and players on the source MOO. How can I get rid of
these?

*One obvious way is to edit them out of the dump with a text editor before
*uploading. This could cause errors and may be tedious. It might be better to
*redump the object, adding noprops to your @dump command. Then scan the verb
*code for what properties need to be on the object; add them back with @prop.


"My client totally hashes my @dump script when I upload it, putting in
linebreaks where it shouldn't. What do I do?

Check the @dump script file to make sure _it_ doesn't have line breaks
where it shouldn't. If it does, the problem is not with your upload but
with your procedure for @dump (you did @wrap off, no?), with your client
recording, or with the editor you used to scan the script; one of those or
something else is breaking the lines.

If your file is OK the problem really is with the upload:

        -Set your client to stop this egregious behavior, or
        -Get a better client.

Two clients recently noted as being good for uploads are:

        Mac - Mudweller 1.2 has file upload capability [per Scott Lynch]

        Unix - emacs

          M-x telnet (to open a telnet session in the current editing window)
          C-X I      (to insert the ascii file of the dump script)

        [per Dan Mehkeri]

"How can I make all new players children of a specific player class?

Set $player_class equal to that class. For example, to make every new
player a *builder class, you'd want:

        ;$player_class = $builder

"Why do I get a range error on line 3 of #15:length_date_gt, which is used
by commands such as @subscribe?

You encounter this when there are no messages in #18, the
Player-Creation Log.  This is typical when a LambdaCore-based MOO
is brand new. Change the verb to this:

#15:length_date_gt   this none this
if (this:ok(caller, caller_perms()))
date = args[1];
if (length(this.messages) < 2)
  return 0;
endif
return this.last_msg_date <= date ? 0 | this.messages[2] -
this._mgr:find_ord(this.messages, args[1], "_lt_msgdate");
else
  return E_PERM;
endif

[Courtesy Fran Litterio via post from Pavel Curtis]

"I've been trying to get @mail-options +netmail to work on my moo
and I always get this:  Mail sending failed: 503 Need MAIL before RCPT.
I then get both an emailed and @mail copy of the msg. What's up?

This appears to be a bug in the Solaris (SunOS 5.x) sendmail daemon).
Everyone may want to make the following change anyway, as it makes the
MOO's sendmail routines more technically compliant with the SMTP spec.

Edit $network:raw_sendmail and change the following (line 48):

    if (!index("23", line[1]))

to:

    if (line[4] == "-")
    elseif (!index("23", line[1]))

[Courtesy of Alex Stewart]

"Whats up with this my_huh: security hole?:

A security hole in the :my_huh process (the part of :huh parsing which
handles feature objects, in LambdaCore) has been discovered, which
permits player class owners to run feature commands with their
children's permissions.  This is an undertandably bad hole, especially
if your MOO moves functions from player classes and moves them onto
features, and uses caller_perms() to check permissions.

The permissions checks on $player:my_huh reads:
  if ((caller != this) && (!$perm_utils:controls(caller_perms(), this)))
    "Standard permissions check";
    return E_PERM;
  endif;
.. and then goes on to do a
  set_task_perms(this);
later in the verb.

It is recommended to either change that if statement to remove the
(caller!=this) check, or leave it in and changing the set_task_perms()
to a set_task_perms(caller_perms()).  How your MOO uses :my_huh would be
the best way to tell which is the better change.

[Courtesy Seth Rich]

----------
To contribute to or comment on this FAQ, send email to kcary@pepperdine.edu;
corrections, additions, attributions gratefully received. I
haven't found a way I'm comfortable with yet to add db patches for things
that don't affect everyone using the vanilla lambdacore. To ask a
question about MOO administration, subscribe to moo-cows  (to [un]subscribe
to the moo-cows mail list send email to moo-cows-request@parc.xerox.com
with your nice polite request in plain english). The URL to obtain this
list is:

gopher://gsep.pepperdine.edu/00/gsep/technical/MUD-MOO/new-archwiz-faq.txt

-----------
This document does not necessarily reflect the opinions of the folks I work
for; they are not responsible for mistakes, libel, or other untoward
effects of other statements contained herein. Follow any procedure above at
your own risk.













--========================_16863002==_--

From xerox.com!moo-cows-request.PARC 31 Dec 1994 23:22:20
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Date:	Sat, 31 Dec 1994 23:22:20 -0800
From:	Oyasumi <tdagley@kendaco.telebyte.com>
Subject: Implementation ideas for server forcing suspend(0)
To:	MOO-Cows.PARC@xerox.com
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.941231231414.3958B-100000@kendaco.telebyte.com>

I have given my proposal for having the server suspend(0) a task which runs
outta ticks/secs instead of tracing back some major thought.
My conclusions are that this could prove dangerous in some situations,
especially if the user was trying to force a critical task to use up too
many ticks, and had their hack task, waiting in the background to pounce
when the other task was forced to suspend.

Ok, these are some of the ideas I came up with:
Either     A. Set it up, so the $server_options allow for either making the
server not do this at all by leaving any related props off it, or having a
prop, to make it do it to all tasks, or a prop to make it do it to tasks,
that are running with the debug flag off.

Or         B. Add a new builtin perm, "s" to verbs.  When set, the server
would do the suspend instead of the traceback.

Or         C. Replace the "w" builtin verb perm with "s". I am not sure
how much work would be involved to do this, but I don't see any real valid
reasons to even have a "w" perm on verbs, since the only use I have seen
them used for was moo hacking, or player hacking.
Of course I am prolly very wrong on valid uses of "w" perm...

My guess is B would be the most safe/sound way to go, and one extra perm
shouldn't do much to db bloat. I am not sure what extra cpu time it will
take, thats why I am putting up all the options I can think of :)

If you didn't want to go with B. then A. !debug would be the second best
option.

We could look at this, as the closest thing to premption, that we are gonna
see in the moo server for a while, and it is also not gonna require a whole
lot of mods to the db. (none if you don't enable it in $server_options)
Look at fg_ticks and bg_ticks as maximum timeslice values.
------------
Ok, as long as I have your ear, I wouldn't mind seeing an eval-d() type
builtin of some-sort...something that wouldn't traceback.
I think the $code_utils:eval_d is a total hack, and a waste. I am being
forced to make a descision, to either bite the bullet and use it in my
object porting utils, or take my chances with a straight eval() which could
traceback, and mess up the porting. It is also a bit easier to parse a nice
list error, than an unknown length multi-line traceback.

P.S. the new $s_u:print is nice, in my application, it uses on average less
than half the ticks of the old verb :)

NetBlazer
