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What follows is a lightly edited and slightly munged transcript of a meeting
called by Dr.Sherry|Dr.Dark_Side on lambdaMOO.

The conference involved tens of people, and the topic ranges from virtual
reality (during the formal session) and MOOsex and religion in the virtual
wine and cheese session.

Any omissions, additions modifications are down to me.

SamIAm on lamdaMOO,
colinm@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU,

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                          ***************************
                          *  Welcome to LambdaMOO!  *
                          ***************************
                                       
                       Running Version 1.5 of LambdaMOO

                  ArchWizard:  Haakon (aka Lambda)
                  Wizards:     Dukas (aka Gary_Severn)
                               ur-Rog (aka Rog)
                               Over-Sphere (aka JoeFeedback)
                               Nosredna (aka yduJ)
                               Rincewind (aka Gemba)

Type `connect Guest' to connect to a guest character,
     `connect <character-name> <password>' to connect to your character, or
     `@who' just to see who's logged in right now.
For example, `connect Munchkin frebblebit'.

For information on how to get a character of your own, type `create'.

To disconnect, either now or later, type `@quit'.
After you've connected, type `help' for documentation.

Please email bug/crash reports to lambda@parc.xerox.com.

>connect SamIAm guess
*** Connected ***
Conference Room
The conference room is painted in a cheery shade of pink.  The walls are
covered with a variety of Impressionist prints.  
The entire effect is calm and relaxing.  You feel encouraged to sit down and
engage in a valuable discussion with Dr.Sherry, her Dark_Side, and the other
conference members.
The exit to Dr.Sherry's Office is to the south, and Sigmund's Office is to the
north.
Minstrel and SamIAm are sitting on the floor.  Dr.Dark_Side is standing here.
You see a sign on the wall here.
Dr.Dark_Side waves hello.
Minstrel waves.
SamIAm waves to Dr. Dark_Side
Minstrel says, "Cross-legged no less.  I happened to run un-delete on a disk
sent to me by Harry Chesley, who wrote (among other things) some nifty
face-using conference tools for GEnie.  To my great delight and surprise, I
found some of the software used by AT&T in their "Project Victoria", an early
(86-87, I think) exploration of the effects ISDN might have on a community.
Wired up Carmel, I think, or some similar small California town, and ran this
conferencing software, along with some library and game stuff."
A small swarm of 3x5 index cards arrives, engulfs Dr.Dark_Side, and carries her
away.
Minstrel wonders if you've discovered the @sweep command?  I just found it
yesterday.
A small swarm of 3x5 index cards blows in and disperses, revealing
Dr.Dark_Side.
SamIAm says, "It has real potential - let's say a meeting within a meeting - say
Dr. Darkside was a corporation - all the internal discussions are in confidence
amongst the members... public speech by some protocol designed into the room."
Accumulated hair sheddings form into Hyperpelosity.
Hyperpelosity sheds.
SamIAm has swept the room - no obvious listeners
Minstrel waves to the One of Hair.
SamIAm waves to Hyperpelosity
Hyperpelosity <- obvious listener
>@sweep
Minstrel laughs.
Dr.Dark_Side waves hello.
Minstrel (#32005) is listening.
Dr.Dark_Side (#33464) is listening.
Hyperpelosity (#68) is listening.
Hyperpelosity sits cross-legged on the floor.
SamIAm [to Dr.Dark_Side]: Will transcript be made available?
Hyperpelosity doesn't have an ass, but it'll sit anyway.
Minstrel says, "Greetings, Dr. of the Night."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "If you really want one."
Taliesin appears in a flash of green, plucking a chord from his lute.
Hyperpelosity bets a distillation would be more interesting.  Raw transcripts
can be a pain.
SamIAm really reeally wants a transicript
Minstrel will have to boogie in about 20 minutes, so would definately
appreciate one.
SamIAm would prefer a transcript with timestamping :-)
;ctime()
Dr.Dark_Side says, "It would be an edited, cleaned up transcript.  I have to
clean it up anyway..."
Minstrel sings a song of greeting for Taliesin.  Haven't seen you for _ages_!
=>  "Tue Apr  7 19:24:34 1992 PDT"
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Hi, Taliesin."
Minstrel <- noisemaker.
SamIAm makes additional arrangements then
Hyperpelosity offers #5803:heartbeat
Taliesin waves to all.  "Merry meet!"
Ishmael appears in a flash of over-the-top special effects.
Hyperpelosity says, "Uh, Dr.Dark_Side, if you want timestamping in the log, you
can type ;player:heartbeat()"
Minstrel says, "Didja shout, shout, let it all out?"
Hyperpelosity says, "That'll print the time every minute (if you are idle for
at least one minute)"
Hyperpelosity says, "Probably that'd give pretty good timestamping."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Thank you..."
Minstrel likes that idea.
SamIAm thanks Hyperpelosity
SoulToucher materializes before you with a gentle hum and a change in the
feeling in the room.
Ishmael says, "hello everybody"
Nosredna shouts, "Dr.Sherry and Dr.Dark_Side's VR Conference beginning in five
minutes at #33469."
You see a nose.  You see a smile.  You see a face.  You see--HerkieCosmo
(Lag-Dragon slayer)!
Minstrel waves to Ishmael and SoulToucher.  How dee?
Dr.Sherry appears in a psychodynamically balanced fashion.
Tobin appears seemingly from nowhere about 2 feet up in the air. He drops to
the floor and smiles.
Felix scampers out from behind a shadow and plops down beside PatGently's feet.
PatGently teleports in.
Minstrel ands HerkieCosmo.
ghond appears from behind a molecule.
Tobin sits cross-legged on the floor.
Dr.Dark_Side waves to everyone.
Ishmael sits cross-legged on the floor.
APHiD has arrived.
Taliesin says, "Merry meet!"
HerkieCosmo says, "Howdy all!"
 - - - 19:27 - - -
Dr.Sherry greets everyone.
Taliesin sits cross-legged on the floor.
The ground splits and smoke fills the room... Sub rises from the depths below
ghond sits cross-legged on the floor.
Tobin waves to all...
A small pewter dragon flies into the room.
Nothief waits for the light to catch up to him and announce his arrival.
PatGently waves.
Sub waves
PatGently sits cross-legged on the floor.
suddenly drives up in a limo.  His bodyguard Al opens the door, PaulSimon comes
out smiling and waving to his fans.
Nothief waves.
HerkieCosmo sits cross-legged on the floor.
APHiD never knew Nosredna had such a great pair of lungs on her.
Taliesin waves to Notheif...long time no see.
Dr.Dark_Side curtsies gravely to ghond.
Minstrel wonders if ghond remembers a beige_guest chasing him around a few days
ago?
 - - - 19:28 - - -
Isagi appears through a glowing blue portal.
APHiD sits cross-legged on the floor.
Nothief sits cross-legged on the floor.
Dr.Dark_Side sits down on the comfy, psychodynamically balanced couch.
PaulSimon bows, and pulls out his laptop to take notes.
Isagi bows.
Dr.Sherry sits down on the comfy, psychodynamically balanced couch.
ghond says, "uhh, the one who was trying to pick me up?  :-)"
Minstrel sighs, installation failed again, probably going to be here for the
whole conference now.
Dr.Dark_Side waves to new people.
 - - - 19:29 - - -
The Sacred Chao forms out of a small pebble nearby.
A piece of the scenery shifts shape and becomes Xiombarg.
Ishmael thinks PaulSimon is getting too serious
Isagi sits down and crosses his legs.
Deon teleports in.
Nexus quickly morphs into Deon.
Sub flattens out into a largish 29 cent postage stamp and floats away.
Dr.Sherry smiles at her twin.  "howdy."
A largish 29 cent postage stamp floats into the room and fattens up into Sub.
Minstrel says, "Did she?!  She just told me she chased you around... naughty
girl."
PaulSimon notes he is actually using it to play Tetris, but don't tell
anyone...
Dr.Dark_Side hugs her good twin.
Taliesin waves to Xiombarg..."Merry meet!"
You hear the bips of keyclick, the sliding of mice and the hum of computers in
the distance as Xiombarg fades slowly out of view, heading towards them.
Dr.Sherry notes just a bit of lag.
Ishmael is greatly comforted
Minstrel says, "Ah yes, she did tell me she tried to carry you off."
 - - - 19:30 - - -
Taliesin lags too.
ghond grins
Minstrel says, "I laughed when she said it was you... of all people."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "We'll start fairly soon... we just want to wait in case
anyone else wants to show up."
Hyperpelosity says, "We better get this show on the road; lag-o-death happens
at 8:07!"
Tobin blinks
Jonny teleports in.
Felix starts sniffing Felix.
Isagi shifts around a bit to get comfortable.
Dr.Dark_Side had forgotten about the lag thingy.
 - - - 19:31 - - -
Hyperpelosity asks the dog owners to please stop their dogs from making noise
in here
ghond ? "of all people?"
SoulToucher pulls out a hankerchief and dabs his forhead... the temperature
rises...
Jonny waves.
Isagi laughs, "Lag-o-death?  NIce."
There are the light bips of keyclick and the sliding of mice as Xiombarg fades
into view, shoving herself away from the console, which promptly fades away.
Some gilchunks.  Then squirming.  Then Gilmore.
Sable teleports in.
Minstrel makes a plug for the fewer-checkpoints petition on the 'fridge.
Taliesin ughs, "Oh no, the checkpointing...it's due in 37 minutes!"
PaulSimon says, "Sable!"
Hyperpelosity still snickers about Gilmore's entrance message.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Gil, how nice of you to drop by."
Deathstalker teleports in.
SamIAm asks, "can't the lag be postponed?"
HerkieCosmo's never seen this many MOOers in one place.
Gilmore idly brushes her hair.
Gilmore says, "Folks, I am lagging."
Dr.Sherry nods to Hyper.  probably a good idea...we'll start in a minute or
two, as soon as it seems everybody who's going to show is here.
Minstrel says, "Well, you wrote the programming language right?  Just up there
in MOO importance."
Taliesin signed it already.
Hyperpelosity says, "Minstrel, Haakon has agreed."
Tobin shifts about... 'lot of ppl here...'
PatGently says, "dr. sherry, could you eject my cat felix?"
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Hi, Sable."
Hyperpelosity says, "He just has to get around to *doing* it."
APHiD says, "Gilmore idly brushes her hair???"
Dr.Sherry says, "well, we'll get done in 37 minutes I guess.  :)"
Sable says, "Hello."
Xiombarg says, "For that matter, @eject my following Chao."
>look gilmore
Sable sits cross-legged on the floor.
A black mote floats into the room, then explodes into
JimmyTheHandThatRockedTheCradle.
Gilmore
    A tall, out-of-shape, disheveled young man looks back at you, his long
wispy blond hair flowing back from his face as he tosses his head to meet your
gaze.  Small round gold-rimmed glasses rest on his nose; he carries an acoustic
guitar in a battered case, and an old backpack stuffed with printouts, sketches
and sheet music of all descriptions.  He nods slightly to acknowledge your
existence, then returns to his musings.  His grey-blue eyes reveal pain at 
being apart from his love.
He proudly displays a Helpful Person Badge.
    Gilmore is wearing a long, bright plaid kilt which billows in the breeze.
It is fastened by a wide leather belt, and a sporran hangs about his waist.  A
white T-shirt bearing the 'Soundgarden' logo completes the outfit.
    Is there something wrong, she said?  Of course there is.  You're still
alive, she said.  Do I deserve to be?  Is that the question?  And if so, who
answers?
He is awake, but has been staring off into space for 3 minutes.
Carrying:
 Friendship Bracelet from TamLin         TamLin's Valentine
 Bronze Cross Pendant (worn)             katana named "Gusher Jizmax"
 backpack                               
PaulSimon sits cross-legged on the floor.
Isagi sits cross-legged on the floor.
PaulSimon says, "simon says..."
Minstrel says, "Well, 37 minutes is a start."
Xiombarg lags.
JimmyTheHand waves
Dr.Dark_Side wonders why gil has yduJ's idle message.
Xiombarg sits cross-legged on the floor.
Dr.Sherry says, "oh, so Haakon can postpone the lag?"
Minstrel says, "The greatest journey starts with a single step"
SoulToucher says, "haha paul..."
Hyperpelosity says, "Twenty four players here..."
JimmyTheHand sits cross-legged on the floor.
Dr.Dark_Side stands up from the comfy, psychodynamically balanced couch.
Felix is unceremoniously expelled from Conference Room by Dr.Dark_Side.
Minstrel says pithily
PaulSimon grins. "wow, at least someone gets it"
Sub stands in the back of the room prepared to leave quietly if his lag gets
too bad
Ren scampers out from behind a shadow and plops down beside Catbutt's feet.
Catbutt falls from the ceiling in a burst of light, rubbing his banged up butt
Isagi wields his katana named "VAX, ur LAG Killer".  :)
 - - - 19:34 - - -
Dr.Sherry stands up from the comfy, psychodynamically balanced couch.
SamIAm thinks we need a photo
Xiombarg says, "I suggest @ejecting the Chao as well."
Deon sits cross-legged on the floor.
Hyperpelosity says, "No, I don't think he can do anything about the upcoming
lag."
Westlake teleports in.
SoulToucher says, "how many times ya gonna stand up there, Sherry?"
Deathstalker sits cross-legged on the floor.
The Sacred Chao looks up at Xiombarg and says, "MU".
JimmyTheHand holds up two fingers behind Hyperpelosity for photo
HerkieCosmo says, "Let's get started."
APHiD thinks someone should block the dogs from the room to begin with.
Hyperpelosity says, "Unfortunately he's all idle"
The Sacred Chao is unceremoniously expelled from Conference Room by
Dr.Dark_Side.
Felix arrives, grumbling about being left behind.
Hyperpelosity suggests @chparent here to #17755 followed by
;player.location.owner_hates_these_kids_of_objects = {#1135}
Gilmore sits down quietly to watch the proceedings.
Xiombarg says, "thanx. :)"
HardWare steps out behind you, he grins evily.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "I did.  i just have to wait for the lag to stop."
Hyperpelosity oopses.  Nevermind, it's already a fancy room.  Bleah.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Okay.  Let's get started."
Xyphus twists reality and reason to form a gate between planes. He steps
through the shimmering portal of non-reality to join you here.
Jonny was going to suggest that, yduJ.
MatchBox seems to materialize behind Xyphus.
SoulToucher says, "YO, I think we should all be quiet and raise our hands to
talk, so we dont all crash together."
PatGently says, "whoops. i don;t know how to make felix stay out or shut up."
HardWare wonders why everybody come here....
Hyperpelosity peers at Jonny. "Who?"
Gilmore says, "Amen, Soul-toucha-brotha."
PaulSimon says, "peer pressure"
Minstrel says, "HardWare, victim of gravity."
SoulToucher and gilmore do a hi-five.
 - - - 19:36 - - -
Xiombarg says, "The Chao's gonna come back, too."
Hyperpelosity gets out a bigger hammer.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "All right, I think we can get started."
Zachary groks that Zachary should be here, and the universe agrees.
SoulToucher shouts SHHHHHHHHHHH!
Jonny says, "Damn followers."
Hyperpelosity says, "Dogs is dead."
Jonny hehs.
Dr.Sherry thinks.  we could lock the room a bit after we start, to keep the
dogs out.
Isagi pokes HardWare in the ribs, "Could you please move your foot, you are
stepping on me."
HardWare agrees...
Hyperpelosity will revive them when it's over.
Dr.Sherry says, "ooooooookay."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Thanks for coming, everybody.  My benign twin and myself
really appreciate it."
 - - - 19:37 - - -
The little dragon flies off to parts unknown.
Dr.Sherry smiles.
Hyperpelosity perches itself on Jonny's head for a better view.
Tobin is back after getting disconnected...
>@sweep
A small pewter dragon flies into the room.
Xyphus can only stay for a little while..  Pressing matters in RL...
jeremy materializes out of thin air.
Minstrel (#32005) is listening.
Dr.Dark_Side (#33464) is listening.
Hyperpelosity (#68) is listening.
Taliesin (#37114) is listening.
Ishmael (#36810) is listening.
SoulToucher (#42409) is listening.
HerkieCosmo (#39382) is listening.
Dr.Sherry (#24141) is listening.
Tobin (#27135) is listening.
PatGently (#37637) is listening.
ghond (#48) is listening.
APHiD (#31783) is listening.
Nothief (#30048) is listening.
PaulSimon (#35871) is listening.
Isagi (#21077) is listening.
Deon (#31572) is listening.
Sub (#35935) is listening.
Jonny (#3920) is listening.
Xiombarg (#37636) is listening.
Gilmore (#34435) is listening.
Sable (#42520) is listening.
Deathstalker (#42472) is listening.
JimmyTheHand (#23222) is listening.
Catbutt (#39132) is listening.
Ren (#43799) has been taught to listen by Gus (#825)
Westlake (#39502) is listening.
Felix (#38583) has been taught to listen by Gus (#825)
HardWare (#35714) is listening.
Xyphus (#36980) is listening.
MatchBox (#42352) has been taught to listen by Grand_Master (#2693)
Zachary (#6078) is listening for Zachary (#4670).
Pewter Dragon (#6344) has been taught to listen by Zachary (#4670)
jeremy (#32401) is listening.
Jonny grins.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "We've asked you here to discuss some issues of VR which are
germane to our thesis..."
The little dragon flies off to parts unknown.
PaulSimon 's ears perk up.
Tobin listens...
jeremy sits down on floor
HardWare is really having some lagging here....
SHHHHHH...... 
>@check
Dr.Dark_Side says, "We'd like to start with this question:  How do you define
Virtual Reality?"
Ishmael teleports Behemoth in.
jeremy (#32401)     <cmd-line>     jeremy (#32401)     jeremy sits down on 
HardWare (#35714)   <cmd-line>     HardWare (#35714)   HardWare is really h
SoulToucher (#42409)/SHHHHHH...... SoulToucher (#42409)SHHHHHH...... 
Dr.Dark_Side (#33464)<cmd-line>     Dr.Dark_Side (#33464)Dr.Dark_Side says, "
Ishmael (#36810)    teleport_messagesFrand (#47)         Ishmael teleports Be
*** finished ***
Gilmore raises his hand.
JimmyTheHand notes that you don't start lightly
Dr.Dark_Side says, "yes, gil?"
Sub stares off into the distance between your ears
Dr.Sherry says, "go for it, Gilmore.  :)"
PaulSimon thinks.
Zachary raises his hand.
Xyphus raises his hand as well.
Dr.Dark_Side believes in diving right in.  :-)
PaulSimon raises his hand.
Isagi says, "A virtual reality to me is a place that simulates that some sort
of a 'world' wether that world is realistic, fantasy, or just unimaginable."
Dr.Sherry keeps track of the people who want to speak...we'll get to everyone.
Zachary lowers his hand.
SoulToucher wonders if a questionnaire wouldn't have worked better....
Tobin raises his hand and waits...
Dr.Dark_Side says, "speak, people."
Isagi oopses and forgets to raise his hand...
PaulSimon says, "well, this way we get to hear other people..."
Dr.Dark_Side notes that Dr.Sherry and she have their reasons for doing it this
way...
Gilmore says, "Anything that attempts to simulate a world, or make you believe
you're somewhere else, is a Virtual Reality."
 - - - 19:40 - - -
JimmyTheHand wonders if they want everyone just to blurt out everything
Xiombarg says, "VR is any simulation of a reality. The more senses that are
involved, the better."
Gilmore says, "But then under that definition, a novel is a VR."
HerkieCosmo says, "A novel could be considered VR during the time you are
reading it..."
APHiD raises his hand.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "that's fine, until it gets chaotic."
ghond raises his hand.
Ishmael is witholding his meta-comments about the meeting
Sable thinks it is a sort of interactive novel where each character is able to
change the story as it goes along...
Taliesin says, "That definition could include roleplaying games.  Are RPGs VR
then?"
Zachary says, "so are books VR?"
Dr.Sherry says, "ok, then, go for it.  :)"
Xiombarg says, "VRs have to be interactive. Novels aren't."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "all right."
jeremy scratches his head in confussion
Jonny says, "What about `useful' VR worlds, like a reactor world?"
ghond says, "so interaction is a big part"
HardWare says, "54 players."
PaulSimon says, "I disagree with the definition...novels qualify as a fixed,
non-interactive mindspace..."
Xyphus says, "Virtual Reality:  A reality in a sense that all things seem real.
You can percieve things such as colour, texture, hight, weight, etc..  All the
things of RL..  Except that it is created within ones own mind, or as in the
Moo..  WIthin a certain framework in which others can exist..  Simmilar to
everyone's imagination meeting on common ground.."
PatGently says, "i think virtual realities have to be interactive, unlike
novels."
Taliesin says, "RPGs are interactive...so are they VR?"
Xiombarg says, "VRs have to be interactive. Novels aren't."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "ghond?"
Jonny says, "They aren't fictional."
PaulSimon says, "right, intereaction is key...so is immersion"
JimmyTheHand says, "VR is a medium in which a person can can interact with an
artificially created environment"
Xiombarg says, "oops, sorry, reapeated myself... :)"
Hyperpelosity offers those novels that have "if you would open the door, go to
page 65" as a step between the two.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "So does a VR have to be computer-based?"
Xiombarg says, "RPGs are extremely primitive VRs."
APHiD says, "No."
Sable says, "No."
SamIAm raises his hand
SoulToucher says, "VR is an interactive environment for the interaction of
beliefs, self-concepts, and fantasies."
HardWare says, "No."
Sub says, "no"
Taliesin nos.
Isagi thinks that VR's must have some form of an electronic or computer
component, in that case most electronic arcade games are VR's.
Tobin thiks computers help alot... but are not totally necessary...
Dr.Sherry says, "I think it works well for people to just blurt things...go for
it, Sam."
PaulSimon says, "no, but you would be hard-pressed to make one without
computers"
Xiombarg says, "the computer is an excellent tool for VR, but not a prerec."
HardWare says, "No."
Zachary thinks that for actors in a play, the play is a VR. within a strict
framework, though all actors do allow for "interpretive" acting.
Jonny [to SoulToucher]: No practical stuff allowed?
APHiD puts his hand down as he sees that noone else is bothering with
formality.
Catbutt says, "how else could it be VR without computer. Then its jsut R"
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Is an RPG a VR?"
Hyperpelosity says, "How about the internal mindset of someone who's "not in
this world"; someone who is crazy?  Is that a VR?"
SoulToucher says, "Methinks we strayeth from the question...."
Gilmore says, "A role-playing-game is more of a VR than most DikuMuds I've been
on."
PatGently says, "i don't think there's a distinct border between VRs and
non-VRs, I think it's more of a continuum."
Tobin says, "RPG's i would say are a 'primitive' VR..."
Ishmael says, "There needs to be some sense of simulation.  Any interaction
creates a mental state in the way a novel or an idea does.  You start thinking
of it as a VR when it suggests that it is being something that it clearly
isn't"
SamIAm says, "VR has to bypass the perceptual and simulate the conceptual - it
needn't be realistic, but needs to be vaguely analogous."
ghond doesn't "want" RPG's do be VR, but can't think of a good reason :)
Xyphus says, "to me, no...  VR is to me in ones own mind..  Sorta like
Imagination...  Example:  When reading a novel, not just fantasy, but any
novel..  You "live" the novel..  You can see in your mind's eye the story, and
if it is well written, you feel like you are actually there.."
PaulSimon says, "I don't think current videogames are VRs...they come close"
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Is the MOO a VR?"
Xiombarg says, "Why do VRs have to be electronic?"
HardWare pats Tobin on his back, he thinks Tobinn got a point.
Jonny says, "Should we way VR is related to technology?"
APHiD says, "I think that RPG and Choose-your-own-adventure books qualify as
VR. I see VR as being any simulated, interactive reality."
Catbutt says, "of course"
PaulSimon says, "but that is mindspace..."
SoulToucher's BUFFERS OVERFLOW *RED ALERT*
JimmyTheHand says, "yes"
Deathstalker says, "how about videogames like in lawnmower man?"
Isagi says, "I think that LambdaMOO is a VR."
SamIAm says, "As is commonly noted:  VR friendships are friendships, VR feelings == feelings, VR agendas are agendas."
ghond says, "hyperpelosity, let's sTK_#hZCL"
PatGently says, "yes, the MOO is definitely a VR."
Xyphus says, "to me, yes..  It is as if we are actually "living" within it's
realm of "reality""
Gilmore says, "Well ghond, you could make the distinction that when you do a
computer VR, you can point to the terminal and say 'the reality is IN THERE',
whereas with a paper RPG, it's just the common consent of the players."
Ishmael says, "mayve we should try and agree a definition of VR.  We could make
it broad to include novels or narrow to be only 3D computer graphics"
Taliesin says, "Computers, as the tools of the future, do improve upon VR, but
you really don't need them for VR.  All you need is imagination, or some other
way to enter a simulated  world."
Xiombarg says, "a VR is an interactive environment, simulated by imagination or
something else. or both, in the case of the MOO."
HardWare likes LPMUD better...
PaulSimon says, "cyberspace is an environment created by a computer, VR is how
much immersion into it"
Bloaf falls upwards through the floor.
jeremy disappears suddenly for parts unknown.
Isagi nods his head, "The games in 'Lawnmower Man' were VR's.  At least they
were in my opinion..."
Tobin thinks the new virtuality games although just simple shoot em up games
are a VR..
Gortsleigh materializes out of thin air.
Xyphus says, "but just like any VR..  you can leave it to return to "Real
Life".."
PaulSimon says, "yes, the moo is definitely a VR...a text-based, low bandwidth
VR"
 - - - 19:45 - - -
Deathstalker says, "are movies VR then?"
Xiombarg says, "With an RPG, I can point to my head and say it's IN THERE.
Therefore, an RPG is a VR by your def, Gilmore."
Jonny says, "VR is all imagination?  Again, could the reality not be a game?"
SoulToucher says, "Since reality is basically what most people agree upon
anyway.... technically speaking virtual reality is a reality, in a very simlar
way that "reality is.""
PatGently says, "movies ar not intereactive."
APHiD notes that movies aren't interactive.
Minstrel doesn't think MOO can be considered VR without including the original
Adventure and all the other single-player realms that preceeded it.
Zachary joins you, from seemingly nowhere.
Catbutt says, "No. You have no interaction with movies"
Bloaf shows up late.
Xyphus IS SORRY TO HAVE TO GO..  BUT HE HAS TO MEET SOMEONE IN RL, AND HAS A
TIME LIMIT PRESSING...
PaulSimon says, "no, they are not interactive"
Gilmore says, "There's just degrees of Virtual Reality.  You can use such
scales as interactiveness, realism, or 'object-permanence' to measure it, I
suppose."
Ishmael says, "the point about imagination is that even 'nonvirtual' reality
ultimately only exists in your brain.  There's nothing particularly real about
what I think of my direct physical environment"
Tobin says, "there not interactive DS..."
Jonny says, "VR is external, interactive, ..."
Catbutt goes home.
 - - - 19:46 - - -
Xyphus bows, and begs pardon..
Taliesin doesn't think that Adventure includes more than one person.
Sable says, "Whatever we define it as, it is enough to addict a hell of a lot
of people, and whether we call this virtual or not, that addiction is often
VERY real."
Gortsleigh thinks MOO is actual surreality.
Xiombarg says, "Mistral that's okay. Are you saying Adventure wasn't a
primitive VR? Why not? It was interactive AND electronic, right?"
Deathstalker says, "so interaction makes reality then?"
Hyperpelosity [to Gortsleigh]: Elucidate surreality please?
SoulToucher says, "Good one, DS."
APHiD notes that "Virtual Reality" is a garbage can term. "It has been used as
a handy term to hang on a lot of different things. Exactly what qualifies as VR
is a matter of personal conception."
Xiombarg says, "Ishmael has a point."
Nothief offers that 'Virtual' 'Reality' is a confliction in terms.
PatGently says, "it helps that the MOO is multiuser, i think.  makes it a more
complex and complete reality."
Bloaf thinks true VR can accept any abstract behavior. MOO can only accept
what's laid down in the rules/verbs/etc.
Xyphus goes home.
Minstrel thinks there is obviously a point where the term loses all meaning :-)
HerkieCosmo says, "Dreams are definitely a virtual reality, although it's not
electronic.  There is definitely interaction, though."
Sub agrees with sable about the addiction the moo causes sometimes
PaulSimon says, "VR must be :  interactive, multiplayer, user-creatable"
Isagi thinks that 'Adventure' was a virtual reality, although one with a very
text parser and limited vocabulary.
SamIAm says, "The ultimate VR would be indistinguishable from a possible world.
MOO has some features of this.  MOO conversations are real, MOO notes are real,
MOO fridges don't keep food cold."
Minstrel greets Gortsleigh.
SoulToucher says, "VR is just an agreed upon system of interaction... like
reality except minus Natural Law."
Tobin says, "but you can program new verbs... by using the rules..."
Zachary argues with 'multi-player
Jonny [to PaulSimon]: What about practical worlds?
APHiD [to Nothief] How are Virtual and Reality conflicting terms?
Gortsleigh bows to Minstrel.  How do.
Bloaf thinks 'multiplayer' is not a concept that defines virtual reality.
Gilmore says, "A MUD is an interesting parallel to solipsism; we're all just
part of Haakon's dream, eh?"
Minstrel hesistates to include every interesting bit of sense-related research
to come out of the last 50 years in one term.
Dr.Sherry smiles.
Deathstalker says, "the human body is electric in nature so that is not true.
the most complex electro-chemical device we know"
Dr.Dark_Side says, "So, PaulSimon, do you think BBS are VR?  They're
interactive, if not in realtime"
Tobin says, "RL has rules also... physics..."
Jonny says, "well, lambda.parc.xerox.com's dream."
Gortsleigh goes home.
PaulSimon says, "no, BBS's are not VR..."
SoulToucher says, ""Well, you're all part of my dream as well..." to gilmore"
Gilmore says, "A BBS doesn't attempt to be a VR.  There's no 'object
permanence', no movement or existence to speak of."
PatGently definitely likes the idea of dreams as VR.
Isagi turns pale, "Gilmore, you mean that I am not real?!" :)
Bloaf says, "RL has rules but VR does not have those same constraints."
HerkieCosmo says, "Then can we conclude that dreams ARE VR?"
Jonny says, "What about a BBS run on a MOO?"
SamIAm the best definition of VR would depend on your goal in defining VR, and
asks the good DR's to elucidate.
APHiD says, "Do SPARCstation's dream?"
Dr.Dark_Side says, "How `real' does something have to be to qualify as VR?"
Taliesin says, "In VR, the rules of Nature can be changed...not so in Reality."
Bloaf agrees that dreams are VR because ANYTHING can happen.
Minstrel says, "Is a word-processor VR?  A virtual page?"
SoulToucher says, "Its debateable whether dreams are truly interactive..."
Xiombarg says, "BBSs don't simulate a large enough range of interactions.
Monopoly is not a Vr for the same reason."
Tobin thinks dreams are a form of VR...
Gilmore says, "Good point, Jonny."
PatGently says, "i don't think a bbs, or any other simple conversational
modality, is a VR."
Sub thinks that whatever VR is exactly, sometimes walking the line between it
and RL can be a tricky task
JimmyTheHand qeustions dreams being vr...the control might be too limited....or
at least the input
PaulSimon says, "virtual reality may go beyond physics, it need not be
REALISTIC"
Jonny says, "What about Citadel BBSs that are made up of rooms?"
Gilmore says, "They dream of electric sheep, no doubbt."
PatGently says, "lucid dreams are interactive."
PaulSimon says, "I agree with PatGently"
Jonny says, "So is simplicity part of it?"
Gilmore laaags.
Nothief  [to APHiD] Reality CANNOT be 'virtual'. A new term is necessary..
Another word to describe what you (APHiD) are engaged in.
SoulToucher wonders maybe smaller group meetings would be easier....
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Does one person + environment = VR?  Or do you need to
interact with another live being?"
Tobin is getting lost...
Taliesin says, "Yes, lucid dreaming would be VR."
HerkieCosmo says, "A dream is interactive if only between your ego and your
subconscious.  They may actually EXIST on another plane..."
Xiombarg says, "in terms of BBSes, the point about object permanance is also a
good one."
Zachary says, "Something has to be real enough to seem a 'decent try' at
simulating or allowing to be simulated most facets of reality to be VR."
 - - - 19:50 - - -
PaulSimon says, "MUDs are the highest form of text-based VR...at least for now"
Gilmore says, "YES.  A person + environment = VR."
PatGently says, "i don;t think interaction with other people is required, but
it helps."
Gilmore thinks Herkie reads Lovecraft.
APHiD says, "Well, by definition, the term Virtual Reality means `being reality
in essence or effect though formally recognized as such.'"
Sable says, "I think that the fact that we are all here at this conference...on
computers...talking to each other...is just a slight sign that VR is reality."
Tobin agrees with gilmore...
Jonny says, "One person + environment is VR in the same way as a person on a
desert island is still in reality."
Minstrel is engaged in a really nifty multi-user conference, which I certainly
would hesitate to include in VR.
Dr.Sherry says, "so in that definition, Zachary, is a MUD VR, since it's
text-based?"
Xiombarg says, "Nothief is an objective reality extremist! :)"
SamIAm says, "One person + environment with _requisite_variety_ to simulate a
possible world == VR"
HerkieCosmo says, "Why just Lucid dreams and not non-lucid dreams?  Is it the
amount of control you have over the environment?"
Ishmael doesn't feel we are really getting very far.  this distresses him
PaulSimon says, "must have another live being"
Tobin has to go... the lab is closing... and he has to get up in the morning...
Deathstalker says, "or that we're nuts."
Minstrel thinks MOO is a _prototype_ VR... a platform for developing objects
substituting imagination for substantial simulated reality.
Gilmore says, "There are DEGREES of Virtual Reality - not a hardfast rule."
HerkieCosmo doesn't read Lovecraft.. Sorry.
Jonny hehs.
Taliesin thinks the people here are real, inasmuch as their characters are
controlled by real people.
SoulToucher doesn't have the mudmuscles to handle more than three threads....
help!
Tobin says, "bye all..."
Gilmore says, "Some things are more Virtually Real than others."
APHiD [to Nothief] The term "Virtual Reality" does not mean "Reality which is a
Virtual Reality" it means something which is virtually reality though not
reality itself.
Bonehead teleports in.
Siggi materializes out of thin air.
Zachary nods to Minstrl... a mud is a limited VR.. limited depending on what
the point is... ie. LPMuds limited cuz the point is to get where there is no
point.. 
PaulSimon nods. "I agree...VR is a spectrum of user immersion into a cyberspace
SamIAm points out that visual perception is largely constructed IRL.
Xiombarg very naughtily attempts to spoof silently the phrase "No, Xiombarg
reads Lovecraft."
JimmyTheHand has to go temporarily....damn
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Are graphics necessary for VR?  Are physical sensations
necessary?"
Bloaf wonders how something can be 'virtually' real but not real.
Minstrel agrees with Gilmore.  Very important.
Nothief considers..
PaulSimon says, "I think graphics and text (and sound) will be in future VRs"
SamIAm thinks graphics aren't essential.
Jonny [to Bloaf]: Real within a context of a `world'
PatGently says, "i don;t think visuals are necesary."
Tobin goes home.
Gilmore says, "Graphics make things MORE VIRTUALLY REAL.  That's all."
Xiombarg says, "oops, I used the joke spoof, Ah, well. :)"
Dr.Dark_Side greets new people, says farewell to others...
Bloaf thinks it's a contradiction.
Taliesin says, "But by our previous definition, cyberspace isn't needed, just
interaction between people in a simulated environment."
Sable would be very interested in hearing the results of this, but as
disorganized as it is, she has a hard time keeping up...."Docvedania all."
HerkieCosmo says, "It's a philosophical question.  We cannot know that what we
consider REAL is real, so what is virtually real may be a moot point."
APHiD says, "You could consider a scale of VR-ness with the higher values
extending towards True Reality."
Minstrel thinks graphics raise the level of virtuality.
Ishmael considers this a VR.  hence text is sufficient for him
SamIAm thinks emote might be.
Deathstalker teleports out.
Hyperpelosity suggests that a blind person has no need of graphics in their VR.
Sub graphics are not what causes Reality or VR.  How can you be sure what you
see is reality at all anyway?
Jonny doesn't buy True Reality.
PaulSimon says, "this room is agreed upon as real, but it doesn't actually
"exist" other than in the computer"
Westlake hopes that the doc's thesis is that nobody knows what VR is. :)
Gilmore says, "IF, that is, they contribute to the suspension of disbelief."
Bloaf considers his everyday life VR.
You feel your heart ache and your energy drain away as Sable leaves you
standing alone.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Well, if you don't like the term VR, what would you use?"
APHiD says, "Reality is perception."
Nothief still thinks that using the term 'real' or 'reality' unnecessarily
confuses things a lot.
HerkieCosmo says, "This room exists--in our minds, which makes it real."
Taliesin postulates if in the future, we get something like the Holodeck in
ST:TNG, would that be VR?
Jonny grins at Hp.
PaulSimon says, "that is what is meant by virtual"
SoulToucher seems to go into a deep meditation.
SamIAm says, "Perhaps the term should be 'abstract reality' not
 'virtual reality'?"
Xiombarg's comprehensive VR def: 1) Interaction 2) Object Permanance 3) High
Flexibility in Actions
PatGently says, "i LIKE the term "virtual realtiy.""
APHiD says, "Reality is abstract."
Isagi wants to see the MOO turn into a holodeck-like-thing, like in ST:TNG.
Gilmore says, "Anything that increases suspension of disbelief, makes an
environment more virtully real.  That's all."
Taliesin breaks it down...'virtual' 'reality' means almost reality...
PaulSimon says, "yes, the Holodeck is a virtual reality"
Bloaf says, "What is it with 'object permanence'? nothing real is permanent."
Bonehead goes home.
Minstrel says, "It is extremely difficult to call any reality non-virtual."
Jonny says, "simulated reality"
Xiombarg kicks SamIAm.
SamIAm appears silently from 2 days in the future, edits Xiombarg's toes into
 a near miss, then just as quickly vanishes... spooky!  Orwellian!
PatGently says, "i like gilmore's comment."
Gilmore says, "Bloaf, that's object permanence in the psychological sense..."
Taliesin likes simulated reality better.
APHiD says, "Virtual reality does not mean `almost reality.'"
Dr.Dark_Side says, "So complete physical perception of an artificial
environment is not necessary to make it VR?"
 - - - 19:55 - - -
Xiombarg says, "yes VR = simulated reality"
SamIAm says, "Just that 'abstract' lets you get away with less than HDTV
 graphics quality."
Gilmore says, "The idea that if I go away from something and come back, it's
still there.  Or that if I change something, it stays changed unless something
else changes it back."
Ishmael says, "what's the good in nit-picking the words?  None of us is strange
to the concept..."
PaulSimon says, "I would have to say the ideal vr would be complete physical
perception"
Bloaf says, "If you simulate reality good enough, it BECOMES your reality."
Xiombarg says, "Let's not agrue about Vr as a valid term, and use it for the
time being."
SoulToucher bows to you, closes his eyes gently, and with a look of ecstacy,
teleports himself home.
Minstrel bets the V. in V.R. is derived from the V. in virtual memory.
HerkieCosmo says, "But dreams do not have object permanence.  Not at all, and
yet it is a VR."
Zachary says, "thinks that anything that makes an attempt to simulate reality
can be considers more or less VR... including games like Monopoly, etc."
PaulSimon says, "Myron Krueger coined the term artificial reality"
You hear the bips of keyclick, the sliding of mice and the hum of computers in
the distance as APHiD fades slowly out of view, heading towards them.
Xiombarg says, "Blaof, you have a point, but I don't think we need to start
that argument. :)"
SamIAm gets into the same stream twice.
Gilmore says, "Amen, Xiombrother."
HardWare goes home.
Ishmael wonders if he has ever had 'complete physical perception' of anything
Bloaf says, "What's the difference between sensing things thru your normal
physical body and having senses 'injected' electronically into your brain?"
Minstrel wants pet V.R. gear.  Fly around Mars with my cats.
HerkieCosmo agrees with Zach.
Xiombarg says, "Monopoly lacks flexibility."
Taliesin | Virtual: existing or resulting in essence or effect though not in
actual fact, form or name.  American Heritage Dictionary.
PatGently says, "simulated reality is an ok term."
Jonny says, "Humans are good at placing their mind in different states.  Think
about how you become your car when you drive it---you don't think about turning
the car, *you* turn."
PaulSimon says, "somehow I don't see that as VR...that's something else"
Bloaf has disconnected.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "to what extent must an environment simulate reality so that
we can call it VR?"
Gilmore says, "Herkie, dreams are less Virtually Real, because they lack object
permanence.  There is no absolute YES or NO about it!"
HerkieCosmo says, "There's often more flexibility here than in 'real' life."
 - - - 19:57 - - -
Gilmore says, "Why does something have to be "Yes, it's VR" or "No, it's not"
?"
Xiombarg says, "VR requires flexibility. Adventure was flexible. Monopoly is
not."
There are the light bips of keyclick and the sliding of mice as APHiD fades
into view, shoving himself away from the console, which promptly fades away.
HerkieCosmo hmmms.
Taliesin says, "Objects here don't have permanence...try @recycle me and
see..."
PatGently says, "dreams do not lack object permanence.  they just have
different rules about it."
Jonny says, "ADVENT wasn't flexible."
Gilmore says, "Can't there be degrees of Virtual Realness?"
Bloaf has connected.
Xiombarg says, "Drams do have object permanance, in the psyche sense. They are
very good VR."
SamIAm says, "Virtual Reality has a purpose, to the extent it satisfies the
purpose and simulates those _abstracted_ features of a possible world - it's
a VR"
Minstrel rewords Dr.Dark_side with "to the extent that an environment simulates
reality we can call it VR.
PaulSimon says, "objects in real life don't have permanence...just let time
take over"
Zachary says, "Monoply is limited VR... you have to put yourslef in the place
of the landowner, etc..."
Ishmael says, "I would call it VR if it makes any pretence to be a reality
which it patently isn't.  Calling lambdaMOO an electronic chatline is not VR;
calling it a house is."
Nothief asks, "Is the Holodeck actually more 'real' than this MOO?"
Deon goes home.
Gilmore says, "Taliesin, this was explained before.  Object permanence meaning
if I change something, it stays changed unless someone else changes it.  Go
read a psych book."
Dr.Sherry says, "and also, why is an environment like MOO a good enough
simulation of reality to be very engaging to some people, but not to others?"
Zachary says, "Chess is VR; you have to be the king and try not to get killed
and try to kill and know the limits of your pieces and those ofyour opponents."
Xiombarg yells, "OBJECT PERMANANCE IS A PSYCHE TERM! Look it up and stop
argueing!
Sable teleports in.

APHiD says, "Okay, here's the dictionary definition of `Virtual Reality':
being in a state of being real in essence or effect though not formally
recognized as such."

SamIAm gives Dr. Sherry - language as a virus - MOO as a symptom.
Minstrel [to Ishmael] and currently it is much more of an electronic
conferencing system (hate the chatline concept) than a house.
Isagi believes that the Holodeck, if created, would be more realistic than the
MOO.  The holodeck has 'solid' objects in it.
PaulSimon says, "because some people are more able to translate language into
sensation"
JimmyTheHand is back
Jonny says, "No dictionary defs, please.  Dictionary editors don't know more
than we do about this."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Could you explain your comment further, SamIAM?"
HerkieCosmo says, "So VR is actually a psychological term, not a techonological
term.  Therefore, the degree of VR is not in the technology, or the rules of
VR, but in the beholder."
Zachary thinks the engagingness of MOO has to do with what people look for in
books since the MOO is closely related (being text based) to a book...
Xiombarg says, "It is not TRUE permanance!"
Gilmore says, "Amen, Xiombarg!"
PatGently says, "teh dictionary def of "virtual" was helpful."
ghond doesn't think VR needs user-expandability.  but it's a lot more fun with
it.
Nothief [to Isagi] more realistic. but, more 'real?'
Bloaf says, "Someone define object permanence for those of us w/o a psyche
manual, eh.."
 - - - 20:00 - - -
PaulSimon says, "I think language is an important medium to convey reality to
others...we've been using it for ccenturies"
You feel your heart ache and your energy drain away as Sable leaves you
standing alone.
Xiombarg says, "Once again, Zach, Chess is not flexible enough."
Minstrel wields Dianetics.
APHiD points out that the term `Virtual Reality' didn't make itself. Someone
made that term and chose those words with a reason.
ghond says, "VR could be used in a pre-programmed setting.. walk down a shady
18th century lane and discuss physics with Newton, for instance"
Bloaf thinks the holodeck is close to technically imossible due to the
solidness of things. probably be easier to just lay on a table and have your
brain be convinced that you were doing those things.
Taliesin ughs at Minstrel.
Ishmael thinks it's ok to pretend you're in a house and do chatlining
SamIAm says, "Some people are hooked on/good at language, others aren't -
programmers tend to be language power users - hence the desire to become
programmer on a MOO... some people are into FOOTBALL because they can run/catch
&tc."
Xiombarg says, "No, VR is technical. Object permanance is a pretty objective
pysche term, as they go. Since VR deals with the senses, pyschology enters it."
Minstrel was joking, Tal!
PatGently says, "as i think taliesin said, object permanence is the tendency of
things to continue to exist unless acted on."
Isagi says, "Yes, Nothief.  I believe that the Holodeck would be more 'real'.
I point to the solid object explanation above.  (above?)"
Zachary says, "I didn't say it was *GREAT* VR... but it IS VR to the extent
that you have to accept rules, etc..."
Gilmore says, "Object Permanence: (as far as I know) (since I brought it up)
The quality of objects retaining their properties in the absence of people,
unless acted on by consistent forces."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "As Gilmore said, a while back, object permanence means that
when you look away from an object, you expect it to still be there when you
look back in that direction again.  It's a Piagetian term."
Sub goes home.
Taliesin says, "Well then, if a dream recurs, and the objects are still there,
do they have object permanence?"
Minstrel thinks the Holodeck is nearly %100 possible.
ghond says, "whether or not computers are _necessary_ for VR, VR certainly
wouldn't have that name without them."
Siggi has disconnected.
 - - - 20:02 - - -
Ishmael is unsure of the facts concerning who likes MOOs and why the others
don't.  He expects most people are able to 'get into' the text.  But some may
be obstructed by prejudice or mechanical problems
HerkieCosmo says, "A holodeck would be near-perfect VR because it EASILY
convinces the player that what is happening is real.  However, a good book or
chess game can do quite the same thing."
Xiombarg says, "dreams have OP (obj permanance) even without recurring."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "We also have another major question, people."
Minstrel says, "Certainly more possible than the rest of the ship."
Gilmore says, "So maybe we should argue over WHAT QUALITIES something needs to
make it more or less Virtually Real?"
SamIAm says, "MOO is the quintessential Schmoo - speak it (in MOOcode) and it
becomes (virtually) real"
Abraxas teleports in.
PatGently says, "tal, that's not the point.  dream objects usually stay, but
also sometimes disappear in the same dream."
Taliesin defers to the good Dr.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Recently, William Gibson was quoted as saying he thought
that VR could become addictive, like a drug.  Do you think that's true?"
Xiombarg says, "I don't think we should argue if holodeck is possible. It's
obviously a VR, regardless of its possibility."
Bloaf likes Sam's point.
Minstrel says, "Is telepresence V.R.?  How about night glasses?"
Jonny is a VR addict.
HerkieCosmo is addicted.
Bloaf is POSITIVE that VR would be addictive.
Hyperpelosity says, "Do I *ever*.  Why am I here?"

Gilmore says, "Of course it's true.  Gouda cheese can be addicting, for god's
sake. ANYTHING can be addicting."
PaulSimon says, "MOO is just one of many types of MUDS or MUCKs, each with
different capabilities"
PatGently says, "inconsistent object permanence in dreams."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "And do you think the MOO can be addictive?"
Ishmael thinks that it would be better to understand why a drug is addictive
Minstrel find MOO & other V.R. worlds more addicting than freebasing cocaine,
but less than nicotine.
Bloaf is a MOO addict.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "What do you mean be addicting?  How is it addicting?"
Taliesin thinks so...anything can become addictive to the right personality.
ghond says, "sure.  i wrote it, i should know.  :-)"
Jonny <- MOO addict
Zachary agrees, Dr.Dark_Side... VR is as adictive as reading fiction ro RPGs or
other forms of escapism... I suppose drugs can be seen as escapism...
Gilmore says, "Yes, a text VR like MOO can be addicting.  Many people would
rather live in THIS reality than in the one that oppresses them every day."
APHiD remembers times when he put something down in RL and then looked for it
and it was gone. He wonders if misplaced objects and socks lost in the dryer
have object permanence.
Isagi agrees with with William Gibson.  He points to himself as (virtually)
living proof.
SamIAm can give it up _any_ time he wants too!
PaulSimon says, "MOO is very addictive, I have been watching people on this for
a year for my research..."
Xiombarg says, "VR could easily be addictive, depending on the power it gives
you. I can't @create things in real life, and it takes effort ot recycle (not
@recycle)"
Ishmael has been led to believe that chemical dependency is something special
Nothief says, "OK, the objects give tactile impressions (hence solidness) and
therefore the holodeck serves more senses. Therefore, the that which covers the
most senses (gives the most stimuli) is more real?"
Hyperpelosity logs into MOO even when it has lots of other things it should be
doing.
Dr.Sherry says, "that's true, Gil, but it seems that people point out VR as
being addictive more than most things.  What is it about VR that makes it
addictive?  How about something like MOO as opposed to graphics/sensation-based
VR?"
Abraxas says, "hiya"
Bloaf thinks VR uld be theMOST addictive thing ever, far more than drugs (we're
talking psychologically, not physically, of course).
Taliesin has become addicted to roleplaying games, and is working on MOO.
Hyperpelosity says, "If it's not MOO, then I'm reading the news."
Minstrel <- the first personality.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Why do you think you/people in general are addicted to the
MOO?"
Ishmael suspects that psychological dependency is a pretty elastic concept
Taliesin says, "I'm also addicted to a good sci-fi book, to Star Trek, Dr. Who,
etc."
PatGently says, "habit-forming.  not addictive."
Jonny hehs.
Gilmore says, "People would rather live in a better, more glamourous, more
interesting world."
Xiombarg says, "Psychological addiction. You like it, so you do it again and
again, are willing to sacrifice some things for it (like time), etc...."
 - - - 20:05 - - -
Abraxas agrees.
Minstrel ers ... meant I have an addictive personality, and I fell right into
MOO.
PaulSimon says, "some people have an innate need to communicate with others"
SamIAm just says No
Abraxas has been weening himself away from VR with ever-increasing doses of RL
:)
ghond can imagine a generation of the ultimate couch potatoes, IV drip in arm
and VR plug in head.  "goodbye reality"
APHiD is addicted to the MOO for the creative power. "Creation is the ultimate
achievement, in my book."
Taliesin thinks certain types are attracted to certain forms of
entertainment...
Dr.Dark_Side says, "How much time and other things are you willing to sacrifice
for the MOO?"
Gilmore says, "And in a VR, people can become someone else.  I can be a 6'5"
steroid stud, or someone can be a sexy hot babe and do things they'd never hve
the guts to do IRL."
PatGently says, "it's the same thing as drugs--people like exploring different
worlds, or diffent views of the same world."
Taliesin says, "It boils down to the fact that people are 'addicted' to being
entertained."
Zachary thinsk MOO is addictive due to 1) escapism fromthe real world and 2) a
certain god-like power over the reality...
Abraxas wonders if the talk can shift towards the imminence of graphics based
VR..
APHiD is flunking classes for the MOO.
HerkieCosmo agrees with Zach once again.
Gilmore says, "Definitely, APHiD!  Creation is the ultimate rush...and here, we
can share our creations with others, and appreciate those of others1"
Jonny snickers at APHiD.
ghond says, "sadly, a common phenomenon, APHiD"
Hyperpelosity counts down for Lag From Hell.
Minstrel [to ghond] ever notice the eerie blue glow that shines from large
apartment builtings at night?  That generation has already arrived, with T.V.
JimmyTheHand has an announcement to make 
Bloaf doesn't really consider MOO entertainment.
PaulSimon says, "it allows you to play god, create! be anything you want, try
anything you want..."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Really, APHiD?  Is this a problem for anyone else?"
PatGently says, "is getting credit for MOOing."
HerkieCosmo says, "Here, we are God."
Gilmore is also flunking classes for MOO.
PaulSimon says, "it is the ultimate playground for your mind"
Xiombarg says, "Power is the key. As someone just said, be sexy. @create
things."
Taliesin ughs at APHiD...he's on alot, and is pulling a 3.5 this semester...and
before VR, he was getting an average of 1.9 GPA.
Dr.Sherry says, "yes, Jimmy, better do so before laghell...:)"
Minstrel says, "V.R. can only make it more ubiquitous."
Isagi agrees with APDiD, "I also like to create things, the MOO gives me that
ability.  My imagination is the only limit to the things that I can create.
Unless of course, I try to create something for the RPG section of the MOO."
PatGently says, "oops. you know what i meant."
Jonny says, "LAG FROM HELL SHORTLY"
Bloaf has disconnected.
SamIAm gives the Doctors "Computer Power and Human Reason" by Weizenbaum (sp?)
The housekeeper arrives to cart Siggi off to bed.
Zachary tries HARD not to flunk classes for ethe MOO...
Abraxas thinks the power of realtime communication within the modifiable (VR)
framework is powerful.
Xiombarg says, "Yeah, Pat's writing a paper on MOO language."
Taliesin watches Herkie quote Lawnmower Man.
Ishmael thinks that the words 'addict*' are incredibly pejorative.  everybody
tends to do the things they enjoy/whatever most
Bloaf has connected.
waffle raises the probability of his existence here to near 100%.
PatGently is also not doing homework at the moment, though. :)
ghond nods at minstrel.  "but at least they're not on IV drip :-)"
Gilmore says, "I think the RPG, if properly carried out, would make this place
MORE VR.  That way you could pick up  heavy things if you were strong
enough...and things could hurt or kill you, like in real life."
Dr.Sherry says, "laghell's about to start in 2 minutes or so...my twin and I
want to talk more about this, though, with people individually through mail or
interactively on here...we are TamLin and Anastasia-Berthold also..."
HerkieCosmo says, "Writers do exactly that.  They create things and people that
are real.  Real to them and hopefully to others.  They can be so submersed in
that world.  There, the ability to create is not limited by a @quota!"
Xiombarg says, "I agreee with Ishmael."
PaulSimon says, "the fact that you can meet people from all over the world in a
true environment, with "telepathy""
SamIAm says, "W. discussed the _same_ phenomenon in FORTRAN programmers - said 
it was similar to compulive Gambling"
Minstrel thinks waffle (and waffle alone) is a figment of his imagination.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Are there other negative consequences from MOOing other
than failing classes?"
waffle has disconnected.
Isagi should be studying, but is not.  Example to the 'addictive' qualities of
a VR.
APHiD [to Ishmael] Addictions are different from `doing what you enjoy.' I know
a guy who was hooked on crack. He was addicted but he didn't enjoy it. He no
longer had any choice. It was either die from crack or die now.
Zachary also thinks that MOO is addictive because of the ability to relax. here
you are only what you want to be and everyone is equal... you cant see the face
behind the screen and they cant see yours... 
Hyperpelosity says, "Ishmael, sometimes you are busy doing something that you
enjoy, but you aren't doing something you must do, or something that you would
enjoy more.  That is addiction.  Consider the alcoholic.  They *like* to
drink!"
Jonny says, "Lack of social life."
Taliesin can do homework and MOO at the same time, with multitasking.
Ishmael thinks 'addict' is generally used to express society's (completely
arbitrary disapproval of a particular occupation
PatGently says, "well, pasty skin."
Bloaf thinks MOO is more work, fun, everyday life. Much more than
entertainment.
Dr.Sherry says, "our email addresses are (mine) j_serpentell@acc.haverford.edu;
dr.dark's is a_goldschlag@acc.haverford.edu."
HerkieCosmo didn't see Lawnmower Man.
Xiombarg says, "Could be doing a CS project right now, but isn't."
PaulSimon says, "but the problem is not everyone Role-plays..."
Minstrel agrees with Gilmore... already the RPG feels more real than the rest
of the world.
Isagi drops the bomb, "MOO   LAG"
APHiD isn't sure that total submersion in MOO is healthy. "Escapism is fine but
not when taken to extremes. When escapism takes precedence over Real Life, it
becomes a neurosis."
Nothief says, "In Psychology: A habbit is not considered an
obsessive/compulsive disorder if the person enjoys it."
SamIAm says, "Yes, people writing condemnatory theses about it - the ghost
 of Nancy Raygun walks!"
Zachary HAS a social life thank you. getting marriend in may to be exact.
Taliesin likes the ability to nonverbally communicate and interact without the
problems of shyness and stuttering.
Ishmael makes a special exception for chemical dependency (crack and alchohol)
although he would rather not
Gilmore says, "Jonny, this IS a social life."
PatGently says, "i don't have a problem with lack of social life because of
MOOing."
HerkieCosmo is alone in the computer lab.  Wonder what that means.
PaulSimon says, "I would say there are positive aspects...it can make you more
confident"
Minstrel wonders if Ishmael has ever quit smoking, or seen anyone else quit?
Jonny lies, "I'm awake!  I'm awake!"
Jonny is gonna sit this out until the lag stops, and suggests you do so also.
JimmyTheHand would like to make an announcement before everyone takes off
Abraxas thinks escapism always takes precedence over RL for the majority.. but
the problem isn't inherent within VR anymore than other forms of entertainment,
except in it's intensity.
Dr.Sherry thanks everyone for giving us a _huge_ amount of stuff to hopefully
integrate into our background material.  :)
Xiombarg does not exist in a rational sense.
Isagi notes that the MOO has hooked four of his friends (Who are normal
socially active people, why are we talking about social lives anyway?)
APHiD goes into the next room to ask his Narcotics Anonymous friends for their
definition of addiction.
Ishmael says to Hyperlosity "well.. depends how you define MUST.  If you really
MUST do it and you don't, presumably you die or something equally catastrophic.
You can always revise your high level goals"
Zachary bonks Jonny.
Taliesin notes that alcoholics don't like to drink in later stages, they just
hate not to drink...
HerkieCosmo has disconnected.
Minstrel says, "The term certainly has meaning."
Minstrel stares off into the middle distance.
Hyperpelosity says, "Well, if you don't do your CS project your GPA falls by a
bit... Keep it up, and you flunk out. Addictive behavior can be destructive *in
the long run*."
ghond says, "server hacking can be addictive as well"
Bloaf greets The Creator.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Why is that a problem, PaulSimon?"
SamIAm considers the negative consequences of office work.
Gilmore says, "Well, one negative consequence is alwys speaking in the second
person.  I've said IRL more than once, 'Gilmore laughs.'"
PatGently says, "i just have another place to take it."
PaulSimon says, "it has made me able to get over a lot of inhibitions"
APHiD's friends in Narcotic Anonymous said, "The difference between an
addiction and `doing what you enjoy' is that an addict has no choice."
Abraxas quit smoking.. he did it cold turkey.  (easiest way)
Dr.Sherry sits back and listens through the lag.
Xiombarg says, "Again, I agree with Ish. Addict is pejorative, but 'addiction',
in the sense usually meant, is possible, regardless of the connotations."
Bloaf has disconnected.
Isagi goes home.
Ishmael is definitely short on personal experience for chemical dependency.  He
failed to give up coffee after a six-week break
Nothief thanks Taliesin for good insight.
Taliesin shouts "LAG FROM HELL!"
Minstrel welps, been fun, see ya'll later.
JimmyTheHand says, "It was the lag!  Really!  I wasn't in another screen!"
ghond nearly flunked out writing MOO 1.0.
PaulSimon says, "some people are themselves"
APHiD says, "Ishmael, I've watched my friends die from drug addictions. Were
they just doing what they enjoyed? Some of them wanted to quit but couldn't.
Not after a year in a state rehabilitation center, not with any 12-step
program. They couldn't. They had NO CHOICE. That's what being addicted is."
JimmyTheHand says, "For anyone who is interested, my ethnography on the Lambda
is available from parcftp.xerox.com in /pub/MOO/contrib  file:
ethnography.paper   Some of you might find it interesting, especially in light
of this discussino"
Bloaf has connected.
The housekeeper arrives to cart waffle off to bed.
Hyperpelosity toys with its employers.  They should fire it.
Gilmore says, "And also the problem of identifying with your MOO name.  If
someone said 'Hey Gilmore!' IRL I'd turn around."
PatGently says, "Nothief, then Nethack would qualify for me about half the
time."
Dr.Sherry says, "you wrote the moo code while you were still in school, ghond?
I didn't know that..."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "So, do you people think that you have `no choice' but to
MOO?"
Feoh arrives on a Viking Longboat which, after letting him disembark, floats
through the wall and out of the room.
Zachary thinks the Lag monster has come to eat us all..
SamIAm considers the negative consequences of driving - points out that serial
killers are often compulsive drivers and hands in his car keys, just in case.
Skot switches time-space locations with a patch of air nearby.
ghond says, "at least MUDding doesn't have any directly harmful consequences.
unlike, say, nicotine or cocaine addiction."
PaulSimon says, "so you have several reality levels interplaying...it isn't
just one level of reality"
Taliesin is idly composing a great song or an epic poem.
Xiombarg lags.
Minstrel tests the lag waters.
PatGently says, "tal, nonvocally maybe, but it's all verbal."
Nothief says, "That's 3rd person, gilmore. And for a while, I was doing that
too.."
APHiD says, "In big cities, people die every day trying to supply their drug
addictions. Children die. I know a 4-year-old with AIDS she got from her mother
sharing a needle. Would a healthy person kill their own child to simply `do
what they enjoy'?"
Gilmore starts whacking a pack of Camel Lights against his palm.
Dr.Sherry thinks the lag might be improving a bit.
Zachary leaves quietly for parts unknown.
Ishmael doesn't feel like he completely understands choice/free will, to what
extent he could really do anything different than what he actually does
ghond nods.  "i was just finishing my 3rd term.  managed to put off finishing
it till my work term (i was in co-op)."
PaulSimon arghs, much of his stuff will get lost in the lag
 - - - 20:23 - - -
GAPHiD doesn't know if he has a choice. "My self-worth isn't too good. That's
why I'm in therapy."
Gilmore wonders off-topic.  "Why don't they put the @owned system on $player
and ditch that bloody @audit???"
Zachary joins you, from seemingly nowhere.
Minstrel believes that all addictions have a psychological componant, and some
have a physiological basis as well.  MOO obviously lacks the physical effects,
but is heavily on the psychological side.
Abraxas [to ghond]: well.. there's the effect of monitor radiation on the human
anatomy, combined with prolonged sitting in a single posture..
ghond says, "sure.  especially programming something which you know will be
used almost immediately.  whether it's objects within a MUD or the MUD server
itself."
ilmore rips open the Camels and pulls out two.  Hands one to Ishmael.  Flicks
a Zippo, ignites the tip of his cigarette to a cherry-red glow.  Blows out a
cloud of blue-grey smoke.
Skot has disconnected.
Xiombarg says, "Dr.Sherry, are you in the address book in the Library? You
should be."
Nothief runs 12 @audit commands  (kidding!)
Ishmael is honored to recognize ghond
PatGently says, "silly.  like i said, MOO is habit-forming.  not addictive."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "I think we were.  But the address book died a little while
back..."
Minstrel has experiences all these strange effects, Gilmore, and it scared him
away from MOO for a few days, but it's more amusing and seems well under
control at this point.  I do, however, fight the impulse to even think in the
third person.
SamIAm laughs at ethnography.paper - "in modern society, the role computers
play in our lives cannot be underemphasized"  --- BZZZT
Jonny has no choice but to MOO, but he has other psychological problems too.
Behemoth goes home.
Dr.Sherry says, "so is VR a different kind of addiction than a drug addiction,
in that it's psychological and not physical?  Or is it also different from
other types of psychological addiction?  Would graphic or sensation based VR
change the ways in which VR is addictive?"
ghond says, "i didn't get much work done for my employer that term either.  he
was not impressed.  i withdrew voluntarily halfway through the next term, to
pursue a career in music."
Bloaf [to Gilmore]: Re: MOO names. No different than nicknames.
APHiD wants to read that paper, Jimmy.
PaulSimon says, "it is only a problem when conventions aren't fully
understood..."
Taliesin finds MOO an enjoyable form of entertainment, like watching certain TV
show he likes, like reading good novels, like playing a good game.
Abraxas thinks he has viewed the phenomenon on other MUCKS and TinyMUDS where
the interaction is more nearly realtime, and the resulting fixation is _much_
faster in development.
Hyperpelosity does not have "no choice but to moo".  Indeed, when away from the
terminal, it has no problem avoiding mooing (although it pines for mooing after
about three days).  But when at the terminal supposing to be working, it moos.
Gilmore says, "Feoh, were you just on PhoenixMUD?"
ghond tips his hat to Ishmael.
Scarab appears in a flash of over-the-top special effects.
Xiombarg says, "Well, Notheief, I don't always enjoy MOOing. Sometimes, things
get nasty."
Nothief sympathizes with PatGently (I hated not to play that game a couple
years ago. I'm VERY over it now.)
Ishmael says to APHiD, "I make no claims to know anything about that kind of
addiction, and I absolutely respect the gravity of the very sad events you
describe.  I *do* believe that MOO is different from crack, even if some people
overtly credit the MOO with making them flunk classes.  That's not really in
the same league"
PatGently says, "Pat's player talked in the third person before ever hearing of
a MOO."
PaulSimon lags!!
Bloaf eats cheese.
SamIAm remembers reading that colour TV depletes one's vivid dreaming time.
Bloaf [to Dr.Dark_Side]: I could stop MOOing, but I'd dislike it very much and
probably be depressed about it at some points. It'd be like all your RLfriends
just dying.
Skot has disconnected.
Xiombarg says, "Dr.Sherry, are you in the address book in the Library? You
should be."
Nothief runs 12 @audit commands  (kidding!)
Ishmael is honored to recognize ghond
PatGently says, "silly.  like i said, MOO is habit-forming.  not addictive."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "I think we were.  But the address book died a little while
back..."
Minstrel has experienced all these strange effects, Gilmore, and it scared him
away from MOO for a few days, but it's more amusing and seems well under
control at this point.  I do, however, fight the impulse to even think in the
third person.
SamIAm laughs at ethnography.paper - "in modern society, the role computers
play in our lives cannot be underemphasized"  --- BZZZT
Jonny has no choice but to MOO, but he has other psychological problems too.
Behemoth goes home.
Dr.Sherry says, "so is VR a different kind of addiction than a drug addiction,
in that it's psychological and not physical?  Or is it also different from
other types of psychological addiction?  Would graphic or sensation based VR
change the ways in which VR is addictive?"
ghond says, "i didn't get much work done for my employer that term either.  he
was not impressed.  i withdrew voluntarily halfway through the next term, to
pursue a career in music."
Bloaf [to Gilmore]: Re: MOO names. No different than nicknames.
APHiD wants to read that paper, Jimmy.
PaulSimon says, "it is only a problem when conventions aren't fully
understood..."
Taliesin finds MOO an enjoyable form of entertainment, like watching certain TV
show he likes, like reading good novels, like playing a good game.
Abraxas thinks he has viewed the phenomenon on other MUCKS and TinyMUDS where
the interaction is more nearly realtime, and the resulting fixation is _much_
faster in development.
Hyperpelosity does not have "no choice but to moo".  Indeed, when away from the
terminal, it has no problem avoiding mooing (although it pines for mooing after
about three days).  But when at the terminal supposing to be working, it moos.
Gilmore says, "Feoh, were you just on PhoenixMUD?"
ghond tips his hat to Ishmael.
Scarab appears in a flash of over-the-top special effects.
Xiombarg says, "Well, Notheief, I don't always enjoy MOOing. Sometimes, things
get nasty."
Nothief sympathizes with PatGently (I hated not to play that game a couple
years ago. I'm VERY over it now.)
Ishmael says to APHiD, "I make no claims to know anything about that kind of
addiction, and I absolutely respect the gravity of the very sad events you
describe.  I *do* believe that MOO is different from crack, even if some people
overtly credit the MOO with making them flunk classes.  That's not really in
the same league"
PatGently says, "Pat's player talked in the third person before ever hearing of
a MOO."
PaulSimon lags!!
Bloaf eats cheese.
SamIAm remembers reading that colour TV depletes one's vivid dreaming time.
Bloaf [to Dr.Dark_Side]: I could stop MOOing, but I'd dislike it very much and
probably be depressed about it at some points. It'd be like all your RLfriends
just dying.
Xiombarg has a social life, thank you. She kisses Pat, who is sitting beside
Xi's player in RL.
PaulSimon says, "excuse me, could you please ask before you smoke? I'm
allergic"
Feoh gets *mega lagged* bit waves through the molasses
APHiD passes out on the floor.
Taliesin wonders if liking something enough to repeat it qualifies as either
habit-forming or addictive.  "Both those terms are a bit too harsh."
SamIAm says, "initial reference:  "Television a choice of futures, to 
entertain or inform" 1976 Australian National University Press, 
authors forgotten."
Jonny has disconnected.
APHiD suggests that Ishmael go down to the local hospital emergency room and
ask them about addiction and free will.
Gilmore says, "I find that my compulsion to immerse myself in VR is similar to
my compulsion to smoke marijuana, in that in both cases, I'm seeking the
altered-perception that each provides."
Dr.Sherry says, "I think it's just the system checkpoint thing, Gilmore."
Quimby shouts, AAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhhh! as he falls from
the sky.
Hyperpelosity says, "EVERYONE STOP PISSING AND MOANING ABOUT THE LAG."
Ishmael finds it hard to believe that Aph has poor self worth.  Ish thinks Aph
is real cool, don't tell
ghond says, "there's a sense of immediacy there."
Abraxas stares off into the middle distance.
Minstrel notes ganja is supposed to kill your REM sleep, but it hasn't had any
such noticable effect (or any of the expected side effects) on me.
Xiombarg grows and begins to writhe. You feel uneasy.
Xiombarg changes into Xiombarg's male_outfit.
PaulSimon says, "quite different than nicknames"
 - - - 20:31 - - -
Dr.Sherry says, "but is that addiction, Gilmore, or something different?"
 - - - 20:32 - - -
JimmyTheHand says, "It was the lag!  Really!  I wasn't in another screen!"
Zachary composes a monster of a letter in another window. 
Quinn steps from a glowing rift in the aether, nodding an oblivious greeting to
all present, then shutting the portal with but a glance.
Gilmore [through the lag] "Programming can be INCREDIBLY addictive.  You can go
hours at a stretch without even thinking about it."
Feoh comes back to MOO after megalagging
PatGently laughs hysterically because we're all sitting around a nonexistent
room in borrowed bodies arguing in slow motion about virtual reality.
ghond is heading off.  "best of luck, dr.'s."
Minstrel has been addicted to programming since he was 11.
Hyperpelosity [to Gilmore]: Then why is it that I cannot bring myself to
program anything *except* MOO?
APHiD [to Ishmael] Okay. The MOO isn't making me flunk classes. I'm flunking
classes. But harm is harm, what "league" it is in makes no difference. Would
you rather be killed completely or just killed a little bit?
PaulSimon says, "moo allows you to program "reality""
APHiD yawns and puts a hand over his mouth.
APHiD says, "Boy, am I tired. Think I'll go to bed."
APHiD has disconnected.
Abraxas wonders if the psychological addiction has a basis in the physiological
state of the addictee.  He wonders if really healthy people would not be as
susceptible to it.
Taliesin thinks even TV can lower someone's grades, because they are choosing
something they enjoy, such as entertainment, over something they dislike, such
as homework.
Ishmael thinks APHiD's question is less than rhetorical.  There's a big
difference between 'ultimate sanction' and smaller versions.  Most people do
things that cause them some disadvantage.  Most ``choices'' involve forgoing
one advantageous option
Hyperpelosity idly sheds.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Once VR adds physical sensation, will that make it more
like a `true' addiction; i.e., a physical one?"
Gilmore pisses and moans about the lag, right in Hyperlongname's face.
PatGently would rather be killed just a little.  Right, Xi?
ghond disappears behind a molecule.
Minstrel has been a fiend for it, at least?  Addiction?  Who knows.
Dr.Sherry says, "but what is it about computer interaction _specifically_ that
is so addictive, then, whether it be programming, text-based VR, bbses,
anything?"
 - - - 20:36 - - -
Zachary stares off into the middle distance.
Quimby waves hello.
SamIAm  quotes from ethnography: "I only came across one regular who used her
real name...or more accurately a variation of her own name.  Her characters'
names (she has two that I know of) are her first and last names spelled
backwards."
JimmyTheHand thinks Hyperpelosity should have Nosredna toad Gilmore...just for
a little while
Xiombarg is behind due to lag, so ignore its non-sequitors.
Ishmael is goint to write a brief letter to APHiD
Quimby can't program worth anything.
Dr.Sherry hopes this lag clears up soon; these are some really good points.
Nothief has disconnected.
Minstrel wonders if MOO host an unusually large percentage of potheads.
JimmyTheHand wonders why SamIAm is quoting
Xiombarg gibbers, "Perhaps we should say 'habit-forming' rather than addictive,
but this comment may be pointless when the lag catches up to it. :)"
Dr.Sherry waves hello to Quinn and Quimby through the lag.
Abraxas notes that most people he meets on the MOO and MUCKS live on pizza..
Minstrel stares off into the middle distance.
Scarab goes home.
Bloaf has disconnected.
Gilmore says, "What about descriptions?  Who here uses a close parallel of
their IRL desc?  Who uses a fantasized wannabe desc?  How does it relate to
personality?"
Ishmael flattens out into a largish 29 cent postage stamp and floats away.
PatGently says, "a physical addiction is when your body develops a chemical
need for something.  even direct stimulation of the brain can't produce that.
requires chemicals."
< disconnected: Jonny. Total: 45 >
SamIAm says, "I presume it's yduJ you're talking about."
Quimby waves to Dr. Sherry.
Minstrel wonders if APHiD works out all his studliness here.  For here, you are
certainly a stud!
Nothief has connected.
JimmyTheHand nods.
PatGently doesn't live on pizza. and doesn't quite smoke pot.
Psycho appears in a flash of over-the-top special effects.
Xiombarg spoke in third person before MOOing.
Minstrel values APHiD, as would anyone who encountered him here, in his medium.
Abraxas always tries to represent himself.
PaulSimon says, "it is like learning how to work magic, if that were possible
in RL"
Gilmore says, "How do you 'not quite smoke pot'?  Just sort of sniff it through
the ziploc bag?"
 - - - 20:40 - - -
Minstrel says, "Everyone has a medium of their own."
 - - - 20:41 - - -
Feoh says, "i've gotta agree with Taliesin, I think that the MOO is by no means
a cause but an effect.. The few people I know who are 'addicted' to MOO, MUD,
or any other type of computer interaction are people who, if this weren't
around, would stare out the window, twiddle their thumbs, read or watch TV..
The MOO is the ultimate excuse because it *IS* so habit forming."
Xiombarg lags like there is no tommorrow. Xiombarg hopes Dr._Sherry can unravel
Xi's mode of thought.
Abraxas [to Dr.Sherry]: realtime interaction and reaction within the end
product.
PatGently says, "my description is almost accurate for my player."
Quinn is sinking into Oblivione.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "So, if a VR could provide every kind of physical
sensation/stimulation it Wouldn't be physically addicting?"
< disconnected: APHiD. Total: 47 >
Feoh unlags
Xiombarg thinks about the meaning of life, as there is ample time to do so
during the lag.
PaulSimon says, "control...that is what is addicting"
Dr.Sherry is managing to keep up, Xi, don't worry.
Zachary stares off into the middle distance.
Xiombarg laughs at Gilmore's comment about MOO-persona identification. "I get
that from BBSes. :)"
Dr.Sherry watches the lag get better, to her relief.
Psycho says, "Hi!!!!"
PatGently giggles.  not quite having smoked pot is like almost not being a
virgin.
Dr.Dark_Side notes that the lag is disappearing.
Feoh tells people they can wake up now as LAG TIME has ended :)
SamIAm thinks Gilmore's onto something - refers him to Haakon's paper ("I can't
count the number of 'strange but compelling powers' I've seen" - or words to
that effect).  I'm pretty similar to the desc, but it's an abstraction.
Hyperpelosity idly sheds.
Lenore materializes out of thin air.
Quimby has never smoked pot.
Taliesin thinks the most addictive thing to him is meeting people from all over
the globe, talking with them, interacting with them, learning about them.
Xiombarg likes level slippage. :)
Psycho says, "does anybody know how to hook into this channel thing?  I
couldn't"
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Hello."
Minstrel stares off into the middle distance.
Gilmore says, "I rarely see descs that say 'You see a fat guy in an ill-fitting
T-shirt sitting in a computer lab munching Cheetos and failing CompSci 15.'
Yet I know from experience that many MUDders are this way."
Xiombarg gibbers, "Ish, lets's not get into free will here. again, this comment
may be old."
Nothief tests dr.darks theory.
Feoh agrees with Taliesin again.
Abraxas [to Psycho]: chan public
Xiombarg says (late, as usual), "What happened to the adress book? Ooops,
sorry, not germane."
Nothief yeahs!!!
SamIAm says, "Gilmore - read my looks."
PatGently says, "wow, I'm going to have to read everybody's papers."
Gilmore(#34435) is looking at you
Feoh tells Gilmore that he has a description that while it's not that harsh is
far from perfect on another MU*
PaulSimon is doing his communications research on text-based VR
Xiombarg sniggers at Hyerpelosity about lag complaints, as Xi's lag complaint
was still on thw queue when it said that.
Dr.Sherry(#24141) is looking at you
Taliesin's desc is fairly close to his RL desc, except for the glimmer of
wisdom. 8^}
Xiombarg's mind is a formless mass right now. Do not disturb.
Psycho says, "[to Abrazas] it said 'I don't understand that'"
Minstrel snaps out of it.
Lenore has disconnected.
Gilmore smiles at SamIam.  "Nifty.  Check mine also; both the Dr.Sherrys will
tell you it's fairly accurate."
 - - - 20:44 - - -
>look gilmore
Bloaf has connected.
Gilmore
    A tall, out-of-shape, disheveled young man looks back at you, his long
wispy blond hair flowing back from his face as he tosses his head to meet your
gaze.  Small round gold-rimmed glasses rest on his nose; he carries an acoustic
guitar in a battered case, and an old backpack stuffed with printouts, sketches
and sheet music of all descriptions.  He nods slightly to acknowledge your
existence, then returns to his musings.  His grey-blue eyes reveal pain at 
being apart from his love.
He proudly displays a Helpful Person Badge.
    Gilmore is wearing a long, bright plaid kilt which billows in the breeze.
It is fastened by a wide leather belt, and a sporran hangs about his waist.  A
white T-shirt bearing the 'Soundgarden' logo completes the outfit.
    Is there something wrong, she said?  Of course there is.  You're still
alive, she said.  Do I deserve to be?  Is that the question?  And if so, who
answers?
He is awake and looks alert.
Carrying:
 Friendship Bracelet from TamLin         TamLin's Valentine
 Bronze Cross Pendant (worn)             katana named "Gusher Jizmax"
 backpack                               
Abraxas hmms.. it works for him, Psycho.
Lenore has connected.
Xiombarg has been addicted to programming since its player ws 12.
Xiombarg gibbers, "RE: computer interaction's addictive power. The key is
flexibility. Computers are so flexible, there is a power rush when dealing with
big programs."
Gilmore says, "Ooops...I'm wearing my kilt!"
Taliesin says, "The glimmer of wisdom is actually tears from a dust allergy..."
Minstrel laughs.
Bloaf says, "Lag check.."
Dr.Sherry says, "do you think that the extent to which people recreate
themselves on here has anything to do with how much they tend to become very
involved in the medium?"
Psycho says, "Do you need a '@'?"
Gilmore says, "Didn't realize."
Dr.Sherry grins at Gilmore.
Xiombarg [to Gilmore]:"RE: descriptions. My MOO self is NOT my player's self.
It is more chaotic, wierd, and obnoxious. :)
Minstrel says, "Plus the power of arcane knowledge."
Xiombarg [to Gilmore]:"I've seen a description of a person claiming to be a fat
geek. Depends on your sense of humor. I'm more interested in power than good
looks. :)
SamIAm says, "we are all better artists than we realise" - WFN."
PaulSimon says, "I would like to point out something...the conventions of this
place are entirely up to the user..."
Nothief of courses.
Quimby is interested in looks.
The housekeeper arrives to cart HerkieCosmo off to bed.
Abraxas says, "the ability to leverage work.. build low-level routines which
can form part of a higher-level system and so on, until the programmer can
control vast amounts of interaction through relatively few controls."
Xiombarg checks the lag.
Gilmore says, "I agree COMPLETELY, Xiombarg.  When I'm MOO-interacting, I
become a more obnoxious, weird, bizarre person than IRL.  Again, both Doctors
can confirm this."
Sable teleports in.
PatGently says, "i don't tend to like to talk about my player on the MOO.
sometimes people ask where I'm from, and I always tell them Vincent's Hollow."
Dr.Sherry nods to Gilmore.
The housekeeper arrives to cart Skot off to bed.
Quimby says, "What's Vincent's Hollow?"
The housekeeper arrives to cart Jonny off to bed.
The housekeeper arrives to cart APHiD off to bed.
Lenore has disconnected.
SamIAm psychobabbles - disinhibition
Taliesin thinks programmers IRL can be compared to wizards or
magic-users...they hold knowledge that the mundane masses lack, and can do
magic with that knowledge...that's what attracts me...
Bloaf thinks he's actually less weird on MOO because if he was his completely
normal self no one would understand him.
Psycho says, "I become more of what I'd like people to see me as.  I'm not
really a tri-staet serial kiler"
PaulSimon says, "some people on here role-play...others are not really
character's, just deluxe-versions of themselves"
PatGently says, "it's a MUD. :)"
A largish 29 cent postage stamp floats into the room and fattens up into
Ishmael.
Xiombarg hates it when people ask it about its RL self. There are too many
people who're here to hit on women.
Gilmore says, "True, Abraxas.  Being a MOO-wiz and hacking properties on
$player and $room, just because you feel like it, is an enormous rush.  Godlike
power."
Minstrel tends to be a pain in the ass in MOOland, just like IRL.  I generally
feel much smaller here, though.
Sable says, "Amen Xiombarg"
Dr.Dark_Side wonders if anyone is going to answer her question about physical
addiction.
Gilmore giggles at Sable.
Psycho says, "I don't hit on women-my girlfriend would kill me!"
Ishmael didn't hear it
PaulSimon says, "maybe because there are so few women on here..."
Minstrel has yet to try playing a character very different from himself... I
think it could be extremely theraputic.
Sable says, "I can answer questions about physical addiction...what do you want
to know Doc?"
Xiombarg gibbers, "Pat answered you, I believe, Dr."
PatGently hits on Xiombarg, then ducks.
Gilmore says, "No, Dark_Side.  An equivalent question might be; can you be
PHYSICALLY addicted to sex?"
Taliesin does note however, that here in MOO, being a morph, he can use a
different form for each mood he is feeling...
Abraxas thinks physical addiction is implausible unless VR is at the level
where it directly controls the subject's chemical reactions (hormonal control?)
Minstrel says, "I also think that computer-mediated psychotherapy could be very
useful."
Xiombarg gibbers, "Wow! Almost no lag!"
 - - - 20:48 - - -
Zachary says, "Dr.Sheryr, you shoudl be getting mail pretty soon..."
PatGently says, "i'm with abraxas."
Gilmore says, "Yes, Minstrel, but not group. :)"
Minstrel says, "Remove all inhibitions and tensions that block the normal
relationship."
Your attention is drawn to soft, melodious laughter.  You direct your gaze at
the source of the sound to find Gladia, smiling.
Bloaf [to Minstrel]: Interesting point. I'm sortof a 'leader' among my
friends/peers IRL but here  I'm not very prominent.
Dr.Dark_Side reasks, "if a VR could provide you with all possible physical
sensations/stimulation, then could someone become physically addicted to it?
SamIAm [to Minstrel]: It's easier to feel/be a PITA here because there are no
paralinguistic queues to control behaviour.
Zachary says, "I want to make sure you get it."
Dr.Sherry says, "well, it's true, the line between physical/psychological
addiction is often slim."
Taliesin agrees with Minstrel..."I tend to be a bit less vocal IRL..."
Gilmore finds that in MOO, he ends up being isolated because he gets annoyed
and frustrted with people and tells them to f*** off.  Just like IRL.
Xiombarg gibbers, "No, physical addiction requires withdrawal. You don't
withdraw from sensation."
Psycho says, "No, doc, It's all in your head-no drugs running through your
body"
Abraxas says, "at that level, it would have to be mediated by electrochemical
controls..  these may be built into the VR interface as safety features."
Sable says, "I don't know about physical addiction, but I know that sometimes
you give up meals, or parties, or sleep, or studies for it..."
SamIAm asks Dr. Darkside "Why the morbid fascination with addictiveness?"
Dr.Dark_Side says, "SamIAm, do you really think that there are no
paralinguistic cues here?"
PatGently says, "what's a PITA? other than pocketbread, which it's also easier
to be here?"
Jonny teleports in.
SamIAm shrugs
PaulSimon giggles at Sable.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "We're just interested..."
Jonny waves.
Zachary thinks someone could become addicted to itt. or driven insane by it.
image sticking someone in a VR no-stim tank. (cant remember real name)
Bloaf waves.
Psycho burps
I don't understand that.
Feoh agrees , "no I don't think the addiction is Physical either.. I think it's
very much a mental phenomena.  I don't think many people can *really* get
addicted to staring at a screen until their eyes go bleary and typing on a
keyboard until they've attained a typing speed that would make most secretaries
blush :)
Gladia has disconnected.
Dr.Sherry notes to SamIAm that it's been a recurring theme in what they've seen
of the virtual world over the past 7 months.
Gilmore says, "f*** = foam, for those who care."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "No, SamIAm.  it's important.  Dr.Sherry and I are arguing
that the MOO allows for limited, controlled paralinguistic cues..."
You are carrying:
Psycho says, "I'd never do THAT in real reality!"
Taliesin doesn't think VR can be physical unless you mean by excluding all RL
activity, the person becomes atrophied so much they cannot function IRL.
Abraxas believes the power to observe (feel/tactile) is also the power to
control..
Jonny says, "sensory deprivation"
Zachary thinks you could probably kill someone with sensory overload thru a VR
also.
Xiombarg gibbers, "Plysical addiction requires withdrawal. You do not get sick
from being deprived of sensation, no matter how intense."
PatGently says, "there are paralinguistic cues. they're just all verbal.  but
they do fall outside of MOO "speech", that is, say."
Billy lands lightly and will rest here with the lightness of a cloud until the
wind blows her away again.
Minstrel thinks it is quite easy to drive a person insane when they're under
your control.  Wouldn't take a day with a floatation tank and some multi-media
gear, wouldn't take a week with the floatation tank alone.
Psycho says, "define paralinguistic"
Jonny says, "Paralinguistic clues?  Like spelling style?"
SamIAm shrugs again - thus illustrating a paralinguistic queue of a _sort_.
Bloaf [to Zachary]: Probably just make them go insane. Like people who eat
whole ssheets of acid. Not fatal, but you become orange juice.
Ishmael says, "hey billy!"
Gilmore says, "Any VR, by its nature, induces willing sensory deprivation.
When I'm rpg'ing or MOOing, i don't react to the world round me.  My roomie
often comes in and complains about the freezing room because I didn't turn on
the heat; I was MOOing."
The housekeeper arrives to cart Lenore off to bed.
Jonny says, "Or like speed of interaction?"
Dr.Sherry says, "no, like being able to emote:  Dr.Sherry nods, smiles,
whatever."
Taliesin thinks that some psychological side effects do occur...he's noticed
himself become a bit more outgoing lately...he's even pledging a fraternity!
"Pretty good for a kid who used to say one word a week!"
Sable agrees with Gilmore
< connected: APHiD. Total: 52 >
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Paralinguistic cues means are nonverbal conversation cues,
like nodding, waving, smiling..."
Abraxas notes that it is possible to commit suicide by psychological belief
(voodoo, for example).  Is this physiological in nature?
Xiombarg grins.
Jonny says, "And when I connect or disconnect?"
Psycho applauds for taliesin
Gilmore says, "A fraternity???!?!?!?!\"
PaulSimon grins at Taliesin.
Minstrel wonders if anyone has ever tried to use a computer that disconnects
your after 10 seconds of noninteraction.  Quite a trip.
 - - - 20:52 - - -
Jonny talks in emotes all the time.  So?
PaulSimon knows what he is talking about.
Bloaf says, "When I MOO my only sense that matters as far as info processing is
sight."
PatGently thinks "verbal paralinguistic cues" is a pseudoparadoxical phrase,
like "virtual reality"
Gilmore says, "Good god, man!  Shoot yourself NOW!"
Billy says, "paralinguistic is more than that.  It's when you use CAPS, etc.,
too"
audrey glides into the room elegantly, all eyes turning to look at her
PaulSimon says, "er, what taliesin is talking about"
Abraxas)
Dr.Dark_Side says, "well, paralinguistic cues are much easier to perform in RL,
and are essentially automatic.  But here, you have to think of them."
Westlake teleports out.
Jonny says, "These paralinguistic cues are intentional here."
Quimby waves to audrey.
 - - - 20:53 - - -
Xiombarg cues. :)
PatGently says, "misspellings aren't purposeful, and are cues."
Psycho says, "I just think the caps are there to heighten the psychological
state-nothing physical there."
Zachary shrugs. not reall... I type ':shrugs" whenever I get the 'felling' that
I should shrug.
SamIAm cheers Jonny with his sensory deprivation - exactly - it leads to
hallucination - perhaps we're sharing a consensual hallucination of being here
- different from the IRL one!  Perhaps HiFi VR would work _worse_ ?
Xiombarg gibbers, "also, some of the cues are impossible in real life."
Gilmore says, "Association with a social group does not show outgoingness.  It
shows dependency on the group for something you get from its members; self
worth, praise, whatever.  This applies to MOO as well."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Yes, Billy.  Voice tone, volume, etc. is paralinguistic"
PaulSimon says, "I don't really think about it"
Quimby sorry's for biting audrey.
Xiombarg nibbles both of Pat's ears at the same time.
Gilmore says, "If you get in the habit, Darkside, you don't have to think about
the cues here.  You just do them."
PatGently blushes terribly.
PaulSimon says, "I just type...it comes almost too naturally for me"
Jonny says, "Emotes are not paralinguistic here then."
audrey says, "me too"
Taliesin says, "I was a severe introvert in high school, then I started
improvement in college.  But now, I've noted more improvements after
experiencing interpersonal interaction on MOO."
Xiombarg yells, "THIS IS A CUE!!!"
PaulSimon says, "sure they are"
PatGently then thinks about providing a paralinguistic cue, but notes he has
just done it.
Billy says, "i agree Jonny, emotes are nonverbals"
Dr.Dark_Side says, "But I think that what we have here is more like a real
conversation than, say, interactive SEND or IRC, because of the emote key."
JimmyTheHand comes out of the closet (so to speak) and admits he's a MOO junkie
audrey says, "I was a severe extrovert in an introvert's body"
Gilmore says, "Introversion is good.  Society doesn't like it, and doesn't want
you to either."
Jonny wonders if this is paralinguistic or not.
Bloaf just thought of an interesting thing. Sometimes IRL he watsto do
something like wave and will actively think of waving w/o actually doing it, as
though he'd done it.
Zachary nods in agreement with Dar_side.
Abraxas says, "sure.. and spoof:"
Xiombarg gibbers, "emotes are verbal nonverbals. VR."
JimmyTheHand is an extremem introvert in an introvert's body
PatGently says, "i agree, dr. dark_side."
Sable admits that she is a junkie...whether she wants to be or not...
Billy says, "No, Jonny."
Taliesin grins at audrey..."Exactly!"
SamIAm points out that :emotes have more solidity for him than utterances -
points to the convention of the soliloquy as more accurate than the speech in
western drama!
audrey says, "introversion is only good if by choice"
Psycho says, "I'm an introvert until you get to know me"
The housekeeper arrives to cart Gladia off to bed.
this is from me..     --Abraxas
Bloaf oopses.
Billy says, "It's linguistic, and verbal"
Psycho says, "then-watch out!"
Bloaf didn't read that before he hit return..
Dr.Dark_Side says, "So how much do you people feel that this is like a real
conversation?"
Zachary hehsat bloaf... I find myself spelling ':wave' sometimes too...
Gilmore says, "I'm an autovert.  I open up to myself."
Jonny nods to SamIAm.
Abraxas raises hand
Billy says, "Right, Xiombarg"
audrey says, "i try to make it as much real as possibke"
Dr.Dark_Side says, "What are the similarities?  The differences?"
Billy says, "It's definitely real."
audrey says, "i do not come here to be anyone but me"
Psycho raises hand
JimmyTheHand says, "The quality of the ocnversation depens on the skill of the
people speaking"
Bloaf [to Zachary]: That's what I meant.
Zachary thinks this is a very REAL conversation.
Sable goes home.
SamIAm says, "Of course it's a real conversation"
Gilmore says, "This IS a real conversation.  But what about something that
isn't usually thought of in purely mental terms.  Like TinySex?"
PaulSimon says, "this is fairly real, but it is filtered"
PatGently says, "but here the whole reality itself is verbal. so whether
something within it is verbal becomes a question of relativity."
Taliesin thinks the degree of introversion is a factor...he hated being within
10' of any other human being, literally.  He talked only if there was no other
option.
Billy wonders what Dr.'s RQ is
Xiombarg [to Billy]:"What are you agreeing with?"
audrey says, "brb"
A speedy and helpful robotic busboy removes the uneaten remains of a  pizza.
JimmyTheHand says, "People who are experience at MOOing can speak as well (or
better in at least one case) as they can in RL"
PaulSimon says, "you can't hear tone"
Billy says, "It's mediated, but so are all verbal interactions"
Minstrel uhohs, here comes teledildonics.
PatGently says, "this is a real conversation."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "No, what I mean, is, how is this like a physical,
face-to-face conversation?"
Dr.Sherry says, "go for it, psycho; this is MOOanarchy.  :)"
audrey says, "right jimmy!"
Psycho has disconnected.
JimmyTheHand says, "People who are new to it communicate poorly though"
Jonny [to JimmyTheHand]: No.  Wait.  Nonverbal cues are a lot.
Bloaf thinks conversation relie more on spontaneity (sp) and action than
language ability, altho it does play a role.
Zachary says, "a conversation is people communicating... and since I can see
you talking to me, we are communicating."
SamIAm wants the Drs to outline their interest in addictiveness
audrey says, "i think it is as real as you allow it to be--once you get over
the strangeness of thinking that anything over a machjine can be as real as
touching or talking IRL, it is REAL, IMHO"
Zachary agtrees with Jumm.
Xiombarg picks up a previously-unseen cellular telephone, calls Mama
Bungweisi's Pizza Parlor, and places an order.
PaulSimon says, "I agree with audrey..."
Feoh says, " I don't think it's too much like a real convo, In a real convo you
can't backspace and delete the last five words you just typed before you hit
return.. You also can't *THINK* of what you're going to say and plan it out the
same way, and you also lose things like facial expressions and non obvious
nonverbal cues like body language unless they're emoted which is something
different anyway."
Abraxas thinks this is the essential power of chat systems like MUCKS and
MUDS.. when combined with the programmability with MOOs it can lead to
`dependence.'
Taliesin says, "Nonverbal cues are real important in real live, so :emote is
needed for a substitute in VR."
Gilmore says, "Amen, audrey-sista."
audrey says, "i think you can hear tone"
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Are the dynamics of face-to-face interaction different than
MOO interaction, and if so, how?"
Feoh gets long winded.
JimmyTheHand has a RL friend who MOOs who's much easier to understand on the
MOO than in RL becaues he's Swedish and his accent is hard to understand and he
stutters a lot, but he types very clearly and distinctly
Quinn says, "What is real and unreal?  We had to learn to communicate ideas in
Rl as well?"
PatGently says, "a conversation is people communicating in an interactive
fashion."
PaulSimon says, "then again, I agree with Feoh too"
Minstrel wonders if selling V.R. will become as stigmatized as pushing
narcotics...
audrey says, "i do not think of what i say before i say it--why do you think i
am a bitch in VR as well as IRL?"
Quinn says, "This is just another means of communicating."
Gilmore says, "The reality of this convo depends on the verbal and typing
skills of the conversers."
Jonny says, "But nonverbal cues are most often not intentional."
Billy says, "I agree with Feoh.  You can carefully consider responses here.
And, you can use lag as a cover-up."
Xiombarg gibbers, "Real conversation isn't as nonlinear as this, due to lag.
The speed of sound is not the same."
PaulSimon says, "they are different...but both real conversations"
audrey grins
Quinn says, "It's a matter of preference."
Jonny hehs.
Gilmore says, "I think LESS about what I say here than in RL."
JimmyTheHand says, "My point about nonverbal clues is someone who is very good
at communicating through the MOO can fill a lot of them in...not all...but a
fair portin"
Gilmore says, "I just blurt out."
audrey says, "you can use the need to think as a coverup too"
SamIAm asserts, ex cathedra that MOO is theater.
JimmyTheHand notes that a lot of people MISREAD nonverbal clues in RL
conversation anyway
Gilmore says, "Again, ask either of the doctors.  *grin*"
Eyes appears in a flash of over-the-top special effects.
PaulSimon says, "exactly...I agree with Jimmy"
Bloaf sometimes communicates better on MOO because what he wants to say comes
out more 'easily'..no tongue twisting words, etc.
Jonny thinks that's not true, Jimmy.
Quinn says, "I say what I feel wherever I am.  I look the same here as in RL."
Minstrel says, "The biggest difference between this and conversation is that it
is written, not verbal.  Though both use words, they use different words and
many other different means to communicate."
Abraxas says, "certainly the power to emotionally influence another is diluted
but is open to choice by either party, just like RL.."
Nothief has MOOed with no backspace. He can EASILY compensate for lack of body
language and intonation of voice.
Quinn says, "I get to choose a name that suits me here."
Xiombarg gibbers, "You can't interrupt in MOO conversation. Phrases are as
whole as the player makes them."
Feoh says, "the fact remains however Gilmore, Audrey et al that you have the
*ability* to edit yourself on here whereas in real life things tend to spill
out before you know they did."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "But, for example, there's no need to maintain eye contact
here.  You can look around the room, or other rooms, manipulate objects, and no
one thinks you're rude."
PaulSimon says, "it takes lots of practice"
A courteous and reliable robotic delivery boy zips up, gives Xiombarg a large
entropy pizza and speeds away.
Eyes says, "hi there"
Bloaf [to Quinn]: You can pick any name you want IRL to.
Xiombarg shifts into a more pleasant (and stable) shape.
Xiombarg changes into Xiombarg's normal_outfit.
Jonny says, "Some people think you're rude."
audrey says, "i think that here it is even possible to be MORE careful, since
you have to SEE what you are saying, which is different from hearing
it--somehow it is more permanent"
JimmyTheHand admits that Feoh has made an important point (as did I in my
paper)
Gilmore says, "Feoh, if you can't edit what you're saying IRL then you have a
problem."
Quinn says, "You pay for it IRL."
SamIAm gives the Drs the stuff from Melbourne Uni on IRL and claims it covers
the subject well.
PaulSimon says, "no, but it does help to maintain the "physical" sensations on
here..."
Bloaf +o
Billy says, "Minstrel, writing uses primarily words, so it's verbal"
Eyes says, "Ab!"
Quinn says, "This is society without all the problems and costs of society."
Billy says, "what does a name mean, Quinn?"
Taliesin likes the Dr.'s point about eye contact...he _still_ has a problem
with that.
audrey says, "i pay for not editing what i say here as well"
Bloaf says, "Gilmore- you can't edit what you say IRL AFTER you say it. On MOO
you have until you hit return to change your mind about what you say."
Xiombarg says, "In a RL conversation, people have location in the room. You can
miss stiff. If you have hold screen, its tough to miss MOO convo."
Minstrel oopses, wrong term.  Guess I meant spoken.
Feoh irks at Gilmore, "Of course I can,  mental editing takes place in every
human being that can speak.. but this is totally different.. You have a MUCH
higher level of editing at your disposal."
PaulSimon says, "effective communication through text uses nonverbal cues"
Dr.Dark_Side says, "So you think this society has no problems, Quinn?"
Gilmore says, "A name carries associations."
Nothief notes that the lag-time between typing and reading the next part of the
conversation creates interesting phenomena
Quinn says, "I'm a the same person in a different world."
PaulSimon says, "this society has many of the same problems real ones do"
SamIAm wonders whether the Drs would rule out a conversation with S.J. Hawking
because he can't maintain eye contact.
audrey says, "no, this has the cost of society too--people judge here, people
get reputations here....there is society here as well"
Minstrel fails his summary.
Feoh thanks Bloaf semi-non verbally :)
Bloaf wonders if we should take a quick break and let everyone catch up with
wht they said a few minutes ago.
Nothief says, "such as when 2 people carry on two conversations at once with
each other.."
Abraxas thinks terminal capabilities augment VR with features such as separate
chat windows and scrollback + macros..
Quinn says, "This society has problems-- but not nearly as many as RL.  And
your success here depends more on your ability, creativity, intelligence."
Gilmore says, "Look at the Schmoo-wars. It's very similar to discrimination
against a religious group."
Taliesin thinks being able to choose a name is better than being given one.
PaulSimon must take off...this has been fascinating!
Jonny says, "People are still human here."
JimmyTheHand doesn't think he's the same person IRL although he'd like to
be...he questions they possibility of it
Minstrel doesn't think comparisons, especially long-winded academic
psychobabble comparisons, are terribly valuable.
Dr.Sherry says, "of course not, sam...it's just adjusting to a different set of
cues when you're in a situation like that."
The housekeeper arrives to cart Psycho off to bed.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "No, I wouldn't rule it out.  But it wouldn't be like a
normal conversation, especially since Dr. Hawking must use a voice synthesizer
to speak.  There'd be a lot of lag."
Bloaf is having trouble redng all this, thinking of what to say, and then
having to read all the stuff he missed meanwhile.
Jonny laughs at Gilmore.
Feoh decides to kick the MOO habit for now and go do a Soc. paper. :)
Xiombarg agrees with Gilmore. "Yeah, Schmoos are good for other things besides
net-sex."
PatGently is feeling very sensorily overwhelmed after all these words.
audrey says, "i think that i act the same here--i think i give of the same
impressions....i just might smile more. but ehen i giggle, i giggle IRl--it is
natural now"
 - - - 21:02 - - -
Gilmore flips a middle finger at Jonny and grins.
Minstrel says, "Between spoken and written language."
Feoh goes home.
SamIAm [Dr.]: D you asked 'conversation' not 'normal conversation'
PaulSimon flattens out into a largish 29 cent postage stamp and floats away.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Actually, talking to Stephen Hawking would be a lot like
MOOing (at least for him)."
Taliesin wouldn't put the Schmoo-wars on the level of religious persecution...
SamIAm chants Stamp Out Classism
Jonny either, Taliesin.
Quimby likes Hawking.
Minstrel laughs.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Sorry,  I should clarify.  I meant `normal, face-to-face,
RL conversation.'"
Gilmore says, "I want to know what people think about the net-sex phenomenon.
Who here has tried it?  What do you think of it?"
Xiombarg says, "I thought Hawking formed words in realtime, not whole phrases.
I may be wrong."
Gilmore says, "How does it parallel IRL sex?"
Minstrel gives the Schmoos their own 40 megabytes and stops the crusades.
audrey says, "i do not know--i think that there is less judgement here on a
lookist level, and more on an intelligence level--which i like a lot!@]"
PatGently likes hawking too, but doesn't have a hawk.
A largish 29 cent postage stamp floats into the room and fattens up into
PaulSimon.
Zachary has to go... C ya...
Gilmore says, "That's VERY true, audrey."
PaulSimon goes home.
Xiombarg [to Gilmore]: One step up from phone-sex. Eh.
Bloaf [to SamIAm]: classes serve a purpose, as long as they are for the right
reasons. Racial classes are silly, but when they are based on moral standards
it's different.
Taliesin can be more open in VR...that's another point...
Nothief points to the lag problem again. Of course, this is much different from
normal conversation.
Gilmore says, "Although discrimination against the weird or superior occurs as
much here - maybe more so."
PatGently bypasses his usual discretion and decides to talk about netsex.
Minstrel says, "MOO is like a Dyson Sphere... any social conflict can be easily
resolved by relocation."
Gilmore doesn't see the inherent 'sickness' of phonesex, Xiombarg.  Please
elaborate?
Jonny says, "Superior?"
SamIAm says, "No, it's not exactly like a conversation - it's more like a
scriptless piece of theatre in that props and stylistic devices must be used to
compensate for the lack of fidelity."
Minstrel says, "No one actually _has_ to live in LambdaMOO, unlike IRL."
audrey says, "personally, i think netsex can be better than real, sex--the guy
doesn't roll over and go to sleep, and it can be a lot more interactive. but,
lag sucks, and the touch is still missing, and all in all it can bring yo bvery
close to someone only to remind you that you are NOT physically togehther"
Abraxas wonders if anybody has tried non-netbased VR.. such as interactive 3D
video games..
PatGently says, "netsex is a lot like phone sex.  you can do anything you say
you can do, and it's interactive in realtime."
Minstrel says, "Therefore social problems in MOO are on a whole different
level."
dave climbs out of his Klein bottle
Quimby waves to Paul Simon.
Gilmore nods to audrey.
SamIAm says, "Its purpose is pretty close to that of conversation - to communicate with immediacy."
Taliesin isn't big on the idea of netsex or phonesex, but doesn't feel its
wrong for everyone, just for him.  "After all, we are all free individuals."
Billy says, "SamIam, Some (Goffman, Burke) think of life as drama, that is,
RL."
Abraxas wonders what the purpose of doing something by yourself on the net is..
even if you do what you say you are doing..
Taliesin doesn't impose his standards on others.
Jonny strikes the word `wrong'
Gilmore says, "No morality talk.  I want to know about quality / interest /
usefulness."
Nothief says, "All the MOO's a stage..."
Minstrel laughs.
audrey says, "i am a word person more than a look person--that is because i
read so much...i suppose...i am not very comfortable with myself, and so i
think that i am more comfortable here--where people can look at me and see what
i like about myself before they see what i don't"
Jonny says, "And we are merely players?"
Dr.Dark_Side brb.
Abraxas scores himself:  quality 10  interest 0   usefulness 0
audrey says, "any sex is fine with me as long as i care about the other person"
Abraxas says, "as far as netsex goes.."
PatGently says, "netsex can be amusing, but it's hardly a good substitute."
Bloaf knows you can have sex without love, and love without sex, but how can
you have sex without 'sex', IE- actual sexual contact..?
Nothief says, "define 'we'"
Minstrel is a programmer, _not_ a mere player :-)
audrey says, "i think netsex or phonesex is a lot better than a random pickup"
Xiombarg agrees with Pat.
Taliesin likes to be present IRL with the person when having sex...
dave says, "There are no VOs (Virtual Orgasms)"
Dr.Sherry says, "well, I guess that depends on the extent to which sex is
defined by emotion and fantasy as well as actual physical contact and
sensation."
Quimby laughs, VOs...
Abraxas grins.
Billy laughs at what dave said
Minstrel wonders if the netsex/phonesex fans have tried Henry Miller?
Does Bloaf understand phone sex? Netsex is similar, a bit better.
Minstrel says, "Works for me."
audrey says, "pat--you're worng imho.....for me it is ot a substitute, but a
choice of mode of intimacy"
Quimby says, "Henry Miller?"
 - - - 21:08 - - -
Bloaf says, "sex without love is purly for pleasure..so how can you have phone
sex? where's the pleasure?"
PatGently says, "well, netsex may not provide orgasms, but like any erotica it
can produce real arousal."
SamIAm says, "what is it pan said WFN says, "Morality is the herd instinct of the Lonely""
Gilmore says, "Netsex is mutually consenting.  I think it's the same as in IRL;
the caring that's present determines how much it means.  Netsex for its own
sake is no different than a bar pickup; however, it can be just as stimulating
for an imaginative, verbal person."
JimmyTheHand is amazed at how the conversation shifted when he wasn't watching
Minstrel laughs.
SamIAm loves Henry Miller
Taliesin ughs at Nietzche.
Minstrel, too.
audrey says, "good thought gil--i think the main thing is just to be
comfortablem, as with RL sex"
dave says, "I think netsex is more fun...phone sex is more like commerce than
sex..."
Abraxas wonders which Nietszche Talien is reading..
Gilmore rudely asks questions when he isn't even the damn moderator.
audrey likes nin more than miller, but oh well
Abraxas says, "Taliesin"
Gilmore takes over the convo.  Muahahah!
SamIAm says, "R.A.Wilson says, 'the brain is the most important sex organ' - words to live by brethern (at least, that's my excuse :-)"
JimmyTheHand has never been particularly impressed with Netsex...phone sex with
a twist
Dr.Sherry notes it's ok, Gilmore...
Taliesin was referring to the "Morality is the herd instinct..." quote.
audrey says, "commerce?"
PatGently is completely baffled by Bloaf's weird comments on phone and net sex.
audrey says, "commerce? nah--"
Dr.Dark_Side is back...
JimmyTheHand thinks Gilmore is taking advantage of his status with Dr.Sherry :)
dave says, "you ever had a bill for trying out 1-900 numbers?"
Eyes wonders what does IRL represent?
mflash materializes out of thin air.
Xiombarg likes the R.A.W. quote. :)
Quinn says, "Who pays for fone sex?"
Nothief must retire..
Gilmore says, "phone sex is very similar to net sex.  If I asked you to send me
$20.00 in the mail in return for some really good netsex, it'd be equivalent to
a 900 line, wouldn't it?"
audrey says, "what-evah....i personally think that at least here--no one has to
worry about communicable diseases or pregnancy...:)"
SamIAm bets audrey likes DeBovoir(sp?) more that Sartre too, ughs.
Daedelus materializes out of thin air.
Abraxas thinks, in vitro, that even if netsex were to be arousing, his own
imagination would take precedence over another person, no matter how gifted..
Dr.Sherry grins at Jimmy.  perish the thought.
Taliesin wonders why some people (not to mention names, like J. Helms) try to
impose their views and moralities on other people?  Are they trying to be God?
Dr.Dark_Side says, "In Real Life."
dave says, "a guy named irl..."
Xiombarg says, "You can have phonesex on a local line with someone you know,
dave."
Nothief's frozen image begins to fade as a bright trail of silvery light
explodes into nothing! *BOOM*
Quinn sighs loudly.
audrey loves sartre
Gilmore says, "Tal, that's not the issue."
dave says, "I wouldn't pay...plenty of willing females/female characters on the
net..."
audrey says, "i do not think of it in terms of payment--that cheapens it"
Abraxas wonders if audrey read _Nausea_
Taliesin thinks it touches the issue...
Xiombarg says, "Dave: or pseudo-females."
PatGently says, "the payment issue is completely irrelevant."
Bloaf [to Taliesin]: Everyone wants some reassurance that what they believe is
the right thing. Having lots of people believe you is pretty reassuring. (Re:
helms)
Gilmore says, "True, dave.  But imaginative netsex partners are most likely the
minority.  I've played a female character and seen some HILARIOUS morons."
Jonny loves _Nausea_.
dave says, "that's waht "
audrey did
Xiombarg turns inside-out.
Xiombarg changes into Xiombarg's male_outfit.
dave says, "oops...that's partly what i meant..."
Jonny says, "The payment issue is representitive of power."
Dr.Sherry says, "well, tal, it touches the issue to the extent to which people
react to the idea of netsex, and why people react differently."
Quinn says, "It is relevant.  900-fone-sex contributes to the whorish of it
all."
 - - - 21:12 - - -
Abraxas says, "cool!  excellent book."
Billy says, "In what way, Jonny."
Quimby is a hilarous moron.
Taliesin is reassured that what he believes is right for him.  It doesn't
matter what others think.
audrey says, "oh pul--eeze............it is not a genfder thing or a payment
thing--it is a pleasure thing...if you do not know your partnert well enough to
know his/her gender,  and yes, you CAN tell after a while thank you, thenn that
to me is empty"
Quinn sighs loudly.
Gilmore is an hilarious moron.
PatGently says, "but it's not relevant to virtual reality itself."
Billy says, "How can you tell, audrey?  What cues/clues?"
audrey has read sartre's commplete work
Quinn falls down laughing.
Gilmore says, "True, audrey."
dave says, "oh...people are even more moronic when they use their voice-box...i
become terribly incoherent while f*cking....(not * for the sensitive out
there...."
 - - - 21:13 - - -
Minstrel idly wonder just how many female Schmoo's turn out male, and v.v.,
audrey?
Bloaf [to Taliesin]: So am I for the most part, however others may e diff.
Abraxas says, "really!  even _Transcendence of the Ego_?"
Zman appears in a sparkling cloud.
audrey says, "brb"
Minstrel watches his spelling go to shit, again.
Xiombarg agrees with audrey.
dave says, "I don't think it matters whether the person is "really" female/male
or not..."
PatGently considers going back to being female, like he used to be.
 - - - 21:14 - - -
Quinn goes home.
Minstrel says, "And his punctuation, thank you."
Xiombarg has always been a moron.
PatGently decides to stick with being male.
Dr.Sherry says, "why doesn't it matter, dave?"
Xiombarg likes the fact that sex can be changed almost instantly.
Jonny picks up Politically Correct Featureful Player Class Created Because
Nobody Would @Copy Verbs To 8855.
dave says, "Because we all have a female or male counterpart..."
Taliesin generally stays his RL gender, but that's only his preference.
Daedelus is worried that big brother might get hold of someone's netsex and
ruin a life or a political carerr or make a case for cesnoring the net
Dr.Dark_Side's other persona, Anastasia-Berthold/Berthold-Anastasia, can be
either male or female.  Do you think it makes for different relationships with
people?
PatGently likes it too.
 - - - 21:15 - - -
Zman waves.
Abraxas believes sex is primarily a physiological thing.. as opposed to love or
intimacy..
mflash disappears suddenly for parts unknown.
Minstrel says, "Matters to me.  I like the fact that it is ambiguous, but I
don't enjoy sex with transvestites (er, at least, I don't _think_ I do :-)."
Gilmore forces his eyes to focus on the screen.
Jonny says, "Gender can't be changed so easily."
Eyes stares off into the middle distance.
Billy says, "Not for women, Abraxas."
PatGently has a crush on Anastasia *and* Berthold.
Xiombarg agrees with Dave. "What matters is what sex their PERSONA is, if you
care at all. If people role-play properly, there should be no problem."
dave says, "There was an alarmist article in the New York Times about
pedophiles using nets to transmit porn..."
Gilmore says, "Well Xiom, name can be changed too, but people will react
differently.  If I strted calling myself 'Voluptua' and changed sex to female,
I'd be a new person for VR purposes."
PatGently says, "hey, i've got a story that's relevant here."
 - - - 21:16 - - -
Quimby goes elsewhere.
Dr.Sherry says, "sure, Pat, what?"
Gilmore thinks A-B is obviously female and makes no attempt to hide it.
Taliesin heard some preacher or other say VR was the work of the devil.
hoton teleports Pixel in.
SamIAm says, "these MOOers, all they ever think about is sex."
Jonny <- work of the devil
Taliesin grins.
Elrad materializes out of thin air.
Abraxas says, "A-B?"
Bloaf <- The Devil.
Xiombarg says, "Gilmore: that's my point. It all depends on the interaction you
want. But the player's sex doesn't matter, as long as they are consistent."
Satan <- the devil himself     --Jonny
dave says, "Hey pix...ya gotta learn to get around on your own!"
Pixel bonks dave with Calculus Book.... dave says "suddenly the road to x-ville
has become clear"
Bloaf beat Satan to it.
Bloaf :)
A crazed maniac with slashed-up skin and a mean expression runs in dragging the
wildly struggling Daphne along with him, who is screaming 'NO NO NO ANYTHING
BUT Conference Room'  He deposits her, brushes his hands off satisfactorily,
and smugly prances off.
Hyperpelosity returns from an absence and relates a story about phone sex.  "I
was sitting at home, and got a phone call.  I said "Hello".  He said "Hello,
would you care for an erotic phone call?"  I was taken aback, said "no thank
you".  He said "goodbye" and hung up."
Gilmore says, "True, Xiom.  But I don't think someone playing the opposite sex
can ever be more than a caricture, as far as simulating the mindset of the
other gender."
Minstrel says, "But it does bother you when they change from day to day,
Xiombarg?"
Hyperpelosity says, "Cheaper than a 900 number, for him!"
 - - - 21:18 - - -
Daphne says, "What is this?"
A crazed maniac with slashed-up skin and a mean expression tip-toes in, puts
one finger to his lips, sneaks up behind Daphne, then grabs her in a headlock
and, laughing maniacally, drags her screaming, struggling body out of the room.
You see a shift and change in Hyperpelosity and Eiram takes Hyperpelosity's
place!
Minstrel laughs at HP!  Hilarious!
dave says, ""
Taliesin 8^}
Jonny says, ""
Gilmore falls down laughing at Eiram.  "Yay!  I insulted God and didn't know
it!"
Eiram wonders about that, Gilmore.  I don't think I can get into the mindset of
the average female.
Xiombarg says, "Gilmore: you obviously think gender differences = hardwired
personality differences. That is a lie. The differences are reinforced by
culture."
SamIAm [to Eiram]: Whaddya mean cheaper - it was ISD!
Gilmore says, "So what, Xiom?  They're still there."
Eiram says, "Playing male characters on the MOO is interesting."
Ishmael wakes up
PatGently is the same no matter which sex he is.  (he because male now)
Bloaf thinks most of his friends don't pay attention the gender..none of his
friends are articularly masculine or feminine.
Minstrel got a call from a drunk man who did have his phone number and was sure
he was sleeping with his wife.  Annoyed, he initally convinced the man that he
was indeed sleeping with her, then decided that was cruel and went ahead and
convinced him that he wasn't sleeping with her.  Too damn easy, it was.
Eiram says, "I get to watch e try to pick up Jenny and Jan.  That was
*hilarious*."
Daedelus wonders if children can get on and play in the net and wonders it--if
that changes the idea of "CONSENTING ADULTS"
Xiombarg says, "Gilmore: Only if you let them. What sex do you think my player
is and why?"
Bloaf says, "Er..articularyly."
 - - - 21:20 - - -
Dr.Dark_Side says, "some kids can get on the net, Daedelus."
Jonny giggles at Hyperpelosity.
Bloaf's p won't work.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "most can't, though."
Eiram frequently thinks he is a man (irl) trapped inside a woman's body.  So
many things he wants to do are male activities.  Riding motorcycles, that sort
of thing.
SamIAm once talked to an abusive phone caller for over 2 hours, until he was
comlpletely out-phased.
Gilmore grins at Xiom.  "Nice point.  My gut reaction is male."
Xiombarg begins to clone herself, and each clone morphs to something else.
Xiombargs changes into Xiombargs's male_outfit.
Pixel bonks dave with Calculus Book.... dave says "suddenly the road to x-ville
has become clear"
Zman notes the character Sarah is only 14 years old.
Billy says, "What's to stop kids, Dr.?  I've been convinced that some people
here (rude guests, usu.) are kids, as in teens trying out bad words."
Dr.Sherry says, "well, I've seen kids as young as 10 here, but it's rare.
sometimes you'll see a fourteen or sixteen year old, but that doesn't really
count as kid in my book...it all depends, I suppose."
Ishmael is confused about Sarah.
dave says, "Ouch!"
PatGently says, "no, eiram, you're just a woman who likes motorcycles. nothing
wrong with that."
Minstrel wonders how old Lolita is?  Kidding.
Jonny isn't certain why e picking up Jenny is so funny though.
Zman says, "what's confusing Ishmael?"
Dr.Sherry nods to billy.  most kids don't have access to accounts, but some do
through parents and such, it's true.
Daedelus an adult could pretend to be achild or vice0-versa.  Very interesting
issues here
Ishmael was interested to watch how his attitude to her changed while he
believed she was 14
Abraxas notes that another, Robbie is 1-
Dayel loosens a few ceiling tiles and drops in.
Bloaf thinks the concept of 'adult' is pathetic.
PatGently says, "interesting, gilmore. what sex am i?"
Minstrel wonders about the child porn thing, too.  All forms of information
control are becoming ineffective... a giant step for mankind, methinks.
Bloaf eats cheese.
Saruman steps into the room, glowing in power and wisdom!
SamIAm gives Eiram Jung's ideas about Animus/Anima.
Pixel says, "I think everybody here should confess their ages...just to be
sure..."
dave thinks bloaf should see a doctor about his p
Jonny [to Eiram]: I know the feeling.  Really.
Taliesin waves to Sharky.
Eiram says, "On the MOO, since I'm a wizard, yduJ doesn't get the usual
lossages that happen to female-presenting players (using Haakon's word choice
from his paper).  But when I'm incognito (not everyone notices the names Eiram
and Hyperpelosity) I get to watch the most amazing shit."
Zman notes Dr.Sherry's point in Sarah's case.
Dr.Sherry notes a bit o'lag.
Abraxas says, "10"
Pixel says, "Ooooo baaaaaad laaaaaag...."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "NOt all kids have access.  Most of us have access because
we're affiliated with a university or large corporation.  MOst kids aren't."
Daedelus smiles to Pixel
Ishmael says, "hear, hear PG"
Bloaf [to Eiram]: Stop thinking of them asstereotypical male activities rather
than thinking of yourself as a male. It seems to me to make more sense, since
one is purely imposed by society and the other is not.
Minstrel says, "Up to the parents to keep them away from anything they don't
want them exposed to.  Good luck, in today's world."
SamIAm wants to be the moral protector of the Universe!  He finds it hard to
protect inanimate objects, but it working on it.
dave bonks Pixel. Pixel says, "I am deeply CONCERNED and I want something GOOD
for BREAKFAST!"
Jonny worries that .use_goto is spamming him, and the rest of the MOO.
Dr.Sherry notes the ceiling damage to the conference room and urks.  :)
Eiram decides not to get into his personal life.
Zman says, "good point about 'adult' patheticy, Bloaf!"
Pixel says, "Goo-goo Gaa-gaa..."
Gilmore says, "Although most characters I've seen who had alternate male-female
forms were female.  I know of three such cases."
Dr.Sherry says, "it's true, Daedelus...they are really issues that have _never_
been dealt with; I'm not really sure how to address that myself."
A speedy and helpful robotic busboy removes the uneaten remains of a large
entropy pizza.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Once the price of getting on the net goes down for private
individuals, then I guess we'll get more kids."
PatGently blinks and yawns.
Gilmore idly brushes her hair.
Bloaf lags too much.
Minstrel lags and lags.
SamIAm [to PatGently]: female
dave says, "A lot of the people on the net seem to be in their late teens/early
20's"
Jonny says, "My GOD was that a huge lag."
Eiram says, "I think it's that e wanted, and was convinced he had, a "real
girl".  Ignoring entirely Hyperpelosity, who declined to state its true gender.
It was funny because it was pathetic.,"
Dr.Dark_Side lags.  damn.
SamIAm stares off into the middle distance.
Minstrel wonders if encryption codes are covered by the 5th amendment?
Jonny says, "My attitude towards Explorer Bob changed when I found out he was a
little younger than me---most people who are technically competent used to be
older than me."
Dayel bows and then sits down
Bloaf wonders what's causing this current lag.
Eiram says, "NetRunner just turned 15."
 - - - 21:28 - - -
Dayel stares off into the middle distance.
dave thinks it's good social training for RL...
Eiram says, "Reaper is 12.  I hadn't a clue when he was mudding; I thought he
was more like 17."
Dayel thinks it is a system back up
Xiombargs (all of them) say in unison,  "Eiram: Riding motorcycles is not a
'male' activity. Our society likes to think that, but it's not true. You're
male, just not in synch with the culture."
Bloaf eats cheese.
dave says, "GooGoo"
Eiram says, "32"
Bloaf thinks there is no adult/kid meaningfullness. Maturity may be something
that differs between people, but whther maturity is good or not is purely
opinion.
 - - - 21:29 - - -
Jonny says, "10000"
Xiombargs (all of them) say in unison,  "Gilmore: why?"
Eiram says, "Gilmore, kill your :engine task."
< disconnected: APHiD. Total: 56 >
Taliesin hmms at Eiram.  "Never woulda guessed...but then again, chronological
age doesnt always match mental age...the difference can be termed IQ...
Pixel says, "Ah-ha! Did everybody hear dave say googoo!? He's a young one!"
dave wonders why 'they' don't lag...
Dayel prefers to keep emotional involvement off the VR's because he had an
involvement with someone who turned out to be 14
Bloaf thinks it'd be more interesting for people to guess other's ages.
Gilmore says, "Like I said before, intelligence on here is a function, at least
for first impressions, of typing speed and verbal ability."
Xiombargs (all of them) say in unison,  "Gilmore: from stuff going on now, or
previous stuff?"
 - - - 21:30 - - -
< connected: APHiD. Total: 57 >
A small orb floats into the room and blinds you with a flash of light.  When
your sight returns, you see hoton standing among you
Gilmore does @kill all
Xiombargs lags.
Saruman hasn't really "met" anyone that young, or at least been told about it
(yet)
Jonny says, "In real life, people think I'm quite a bit older than I am.  When
I tell people how old I am, their attitude changes toward me."
Gilmore [to Xiombarg] "I haven't talked to you as much as I'd like, and not
enough for purposes of making any sort of useful judgement."
dave is getting action on commands he forgot he typed in....
Pixel says, "Hi hoton. Nice orb."
Daedelus says, "Iwould hat to (oops) hate to have net sex with someone only
later to find out (if at all) that that person was a child (mentally or
otherwise)  I am controlled by my guilt often"
JimmyTheHand is normal aged
Xiombargs wonder about NetSex with a consenting 14-year-old.
Dayel knew quite a few people who were around the ages of 12-15
 - - - 21:31 - - -
Bloaf has Jonny figured for mid-late twenties.
PatGently says, "so, samiam, why do you think i'm female?"
Taliesin's chronological age probably never really matched his mental age after
the age of about 18 months...
Gilmore says, "No different than a 14-year-old looking older IRL."
dave says, "uhhh.uuum...uhhh...duz that explane y i dont cum x as too bright
sumtimes?"
JimmyTheHand laughs at bloaf
Xiombargs grin.
Xiombargs's mind is a formless mass right now. Do not disturb.
Zman asks all how old they think he is, "then I'll tell you."
dave says, "I always seem at least 5 years younger than i am..."
Xiombargs's player is 19. Or is it 20...
< disconnected: APHiD. Total: 56 >
Dayel hehs...
Gilmore says, "ZMan: 13"
Minstrel agrees with Jonny.  You run into 14-year-old BBS'ers who seem older
than the 40-year-olds now and then.  They tend to get a lot _more_ respect,
rather than a lot less, when people find their true age.
Saruman says, "I am 19"
Eiram switches characters to be the real me.
Dayel thinks his mental age will never catch up to his physical
Gilmore is 18, but smells younger.
 - - - 21:32 - - -
yduJ suddenly appears, blue lightning crackling through her hair.
Pixel says, "Wait, dave, 5-5=0!"
Bloaf knows plenty of 'responsible, mature' 14-16 yer olds and plenty more
immature, annoying, etc. 30year olds.
PatGently says, "netsex with a 14-year-old is different from rl sex, because
it's not illegal."
Jonny is 19, like the rest of you.
dave says, "Zman.....hmmm must be about 7"
Xiombargs (all of them) say in unison,  "Gilmore: Why is that? Why do females
usually do that? What is the hardwired difference? And why am I different?"
Minstrel wonders if anyone in MOOmoo land actually uses their real name?
Eiram leaves, scattering curly red hairs in his wake.
JimmyTheHand is 20 now
Dayel wasn't talking about Netsex before
SamIAm [to PatGently]: because few males are trained to be open enough to say
"I am interested" then "what sex am I".
Bloaf is 19.
Ishmael says, "14 year olds can get access to verbal erotica other ways too"
dave bonks Pixel. Pixel says, "What GOOD is a CARDBOARD suitcase ANYWAY?"
Minstrel wonders if yduJ actually refers to herself as "ee-dudge" IRL, now and
then?
yduJ swaps into the real me.
SamIAm is 30
dave uses his real name...
Taliesin thought so.  "I thought Eiram was yduJ, and I was right."
yduJ IRL looks a lot younger than she is.  Probably because of affecting
college student styles in dress and hair.
Zman oks at the group, "so I act a bit immature sometimes..
Daedelus says, "to patgently--that presumes that VR is not as real at--as
"Reality""
Dr.Dark_Side says, "So yduJ, you consider yduJ to be the `real you', as opposed
to Eiram or Hyperpelosity?  How are they different?  Because they're not
wizards?"
Taliesin is 20.
PatGently grins. interesting theory, gilmore.
Pixel bonks dave with Calculus Book.... dave says "suddenly the road to x-ville
has become clear"
yduJ has been "yduJ" for fourteen years.
Gilmore says, "Xiombarg, I didn't SAY there was a hardwired difference
(although I think there is one, but that isn't waht I'm talking about)  I think
the subtle social conditioning comes through.  I don't really know how to
describe it.  And as I said, I haven't talked to you enough to have a good
theory about your gender."
Dayel looks a lot younger than he is too
Jonny says, "Nosredna's the only wizard."
Dayel has been told he looks anywhere from 12 to 16....sometimes as high as 18
:)
Jean-Paul materializes out of thin air.
yduJ says, "Not on my driver's license, but I've used that name in a large
number of "fringe" circumstances, including username, name at science fiction
conventions, and APA name."
 - - - 21:34 - - -
Taliesin has been told he looks about 26, due to the beard.
Abraxas says, "hiya JP!"
Gilmore says, "Ever since I logged onto QuartzBBS as 'Gilmore' at the beginning
of this school year, I've thought of myself as that."
Jean-Paul says, "Hello,m how is your conference?"
Pixel says, "720?! whoa, I feel dizzy!.."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Welcome, J-P."
Daedelus thanks yduJ for registering him earlier today
Xiombargs [to SamIAm]:"But I'd do the same thing. Pat will back me up on this.
What sex do YOU think i am?"
dave goes in search of a slower scroll rate...
dave goes home.
Taliesin has been Taliesin ever since he found out he couldn't be Mad Minstrel.
JimmyTheHand's age means nothing because no one treats him like it...everyone
treats him as they feel they should based on other factors
Bloaf is gonna be tired in work tomorrow.
PatGently doesn't want to think very hard about what sex people's players are,
because he likes to talk to characters.
Jonny is stuck with the name "Jonny" now even though he doesn't particularly
identify with it.
Ford teleports in ..
Saruman says, "they don't have a spot where the public can get net-access
around me..."
Dayel has used the name Dayel for approximately 8 or 9 years
Dr.Sherry notes that Gilmore does call himself that IRL; she calls Starsinger
more by her MOOname than by her real name; she responds to Tam (though
certainly not sherry)...so what does go on with people's identifications with
their characters, or to one character more than another?
Zman notes he's in the same boat as Jonny.
Billy wanted to shoot someone in a rl class the other day with a paint ball
gun.  It was her first thought when she became irritated.
Dayel got the name Speef 6 years ago
JimmyTheHand wonders what happened to Starsinger....
Jonny identifies with "Jacob" much more due to consonance with his RL name.
Pixel disappears suddenly for parts unknown.
Dr.Dark_Side feels that Dr.Dark_Side is an _aspect_ of her personality.  She
would like to be glamourously nasty in RL, sometimes.
Jonny identifies with his userid "nop" a lot more.
Gilmore says, "When I was drunk with Dr.Sherry (hahaha!  Now they ALL know!) I
was babbling things like 'Gilmore laughs.'"
PatGently thinks Billy needs a RL paintball gun. :)
Minstrel meant unintentional mental slips, yduJ.  Like "ee-dudge should go to
sleep now."
SamIAm [to Xiombargs]: I won't guess - now you're aware of the game it's not
simple. 
Taliesin responds to Mad Minstrel at home, when with a group from the Baltimore
BBS's.
Dr.Sherry says, "she's taking a semester off - will probably be back in
September..."
yduJ idly brushes her hair.
Minstrel says, "Or have you being doing that for 14 years?"
Jean-Paul disappears suddenly for parts unknown.
JimmyTheHand used to refer to someone by their MOOname but got tired of it
after they kept using it as an escape from whay I was trying to talk to them
about
Dr.Sherry grins at Gilmore.
Bloaf can easily have conversations with people 30 years older than him or
years younger, and can  have fun doing 'grown up' things just as much as 'kid
things' to an extent.
PatGently has also talked about himself in the third person as Pat in RL.
JimmyTheHand says, "IRL I mean"
Dayel says, "After the first semester of MUDding (2 years ago?) when I lost
access for the summer, I dreamt in text for about a month :)"
hoton prefers to separate rl and vr
Minstrel wows Baltimore BBS'es, Tal.  Ever met the Reverend with No Name?
Jonny wows at Dayel.
Taliesin agrees with Bloaf.
Gilmore has had several dreams which consisted of scrolling MOO text. And
several fleshed-out pictured dreams about MOO characters.
yduJ says, "Uh, Minstrel, I don't refer to myself by name at all, except when I
have to, like on the phone."
hoton thinks vr names should stay in vr
Taliesin says, "Dunno, Minstrel.  Which boards?"
SamIAm says, "so what do I win Pat?"
Dayel says, "Heh...Not even MOO back then...only MUDs :)"
PatGently laughs at Gilmore's revelation.  He has dreamed about NetHack
characters.
Abraxas notes that the VR phone doesn't work..
Ishmael doesn't identify with his MOO name at all in RL.  He still feels really
odd signing MOO male with a 'fake' name
yduJ notes that when she pronounces what Gilmore would say "Gilmore laughs",
she does <grunt> laughs.
Gilmore is going to call hoton on the phone and scream his vr name over and
over.
Daedelus says, "I usually use personal pronouns to refer to myself"
Minstrel uh huhs.
Jonny laughs at Pat.
Jonny nods to yduJ.
Dr.Sherry nods.  with having a fever this week, she's had several lucid
moo-oriented dreams.  is this common?  how much is moo hardwired into a
person's mind after a while?
Lilly materializes out of thin air.
Dayel counts on his fingers...hmm...March, 1990
Bloaf would probably uhave used his real name on here if he didn't originally
think it was just a game.
Ishmael  um, male->mail (freudian)
Dr.Dark_Side reasks yduJ, so do you think your `yduJ' persona is more the real
you than Hyperpelosity or Eiram?  Why?
Jonny says, "<grunt> being a mental unpronouncible version of :"
Billy has caught herself writing " or say at the beginning of a sentence...
Minstrel is still getting out of the habit of "ya-dudge" and into "ee-dudge"
when referring to you IRL.  Tough.  Ever tried to record it and listen to it
backwards?
yduJ designed the motorcycle puzzle in her sleep, Gilmore.  Down to the verb
names.
PatGently smiles at SamIam and refuses to admit his success or inform him of
his dismal failure.  Sorry.
 - - - 21:39 - - -
Bloaf isn't really a character on MOO, like he'd be in a mud.
Taliesin says, "Minstrel, which Balmer boards?"
Bloaf has never had a conversation with Eiram, Hyper, or Nosredna and just
assumes that they aren't really there for personality.
mondo appears in a flash of over-the-top special effects.
yduJ says, "Nosredna was an inspiration when I had to come up with a second
charactername.  When I needed a third, Eiram was kind of obvious.
Hyperpelosity is an attempt at hiding."
Gilmore says, "Backwards recorded, it's ee-doodge."
Ishmael keeps on wanting to emote in non-MOO email
Xiombargs is really a Spivak. :)
Jonny says, "Nos is there."
Minstrel laughs.  I've designed innumerable algorithms in my sleep.
All the Xiombargs meld into a single figure.
Xiombarg changes into Xiombarg's normal_outfit.
Minstrel says, "Some of my best work..."
mondo says, "Thank you gilmore"
Dayel designed the V Room from TIM when he was sleeping one night
 - - - 21:40 - - -
hoton has noticed some people seem to lose the line between vr and rl, he finds
that disturbing
PatGently says, "it's a really frightening nightmare when all the little amber
letters come running at you in a group attack."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "hi, mondo."
Minstrel is a real believer in sleep.
yduJ says, "Hyperpelosity is weird.  It's like I'm someone else when I'm
Hyperpelosity.  I'm just watching."
Dayel waves
Dayel makes use of a hitherto-unknown exit from the room.
mondo says, "Hi everyone..."
Jonny likes Hp.
Lilly says, "Been there, done that, yduJ."
Minstrel loses the line between reality and reality.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Really, yduJ?  What does it feel like?"
mondo waves
Minstrel waits, _what_ lines?
yduJ says, "I'm less active when I'm Hyperpelosity.  But partly that's because
Hp is *successfully* hiding from the newbies."
Ishmael has to go catch the last T ... again
Saruman says, "I type say alot, when I'm on Bitnet...and I think in emotes
now..."
Abraxas wonders if yduJ is hyperkinetic.
Ishmael goes home.
yduJ sighs.  "Y'all don't bug me with newbie questions when I'm Hp and Eiram,
OK?"
Billy has had moo dreams
Dr.Sherry waves to Ishmael.
Dr.Dark_Side was fooled, yduJ.
Gilmore says, "yduJ, you get very annoying when you're Hyperpelosity.  It might
be because as yduJ, your opinions carry a lot of weight and when you switch to
a relatively innocuous person, you still talk that way and it comes across as
arrogant."
Minstrel likes Hyperpelosity better than yduJ... hmm.
Xiombarg promises not to tell yudJ's secret.
Abraxas wonders if yduJ is hyperkinetic.
yduJ dunno what hyperkinetic means.
PatGently zips his lip.
Taliesin wonders what Hyperwhatzit actually means.
Gilmore is in lust with yduJ and makes no secret of it.
hoton feels people in moo are far too sensitive sometimes
Minstrel wows that response time!
Lilly decides not to bug yduJ with Newbie questions.
mondo thinks he knows what hyperkinetic means
Dr.Sherry notes Gilmore's diplomacy and giggles.  :)
Dr.Dark_Side says, "At what times, hoton?"
Daedelus is on the East Coast and has to go to bed so he can go to work in the
morning -- Good night
yduJ noticed that Dr.Dark_Side didn't just ask Hp to do the @shout, but paged
yduJ instead.  She was amused.
Jonny waves.
mondo waves
Dr.Dark_Side says, "good night, Daedelus."
PatGently says, ""lots of hair""
Abraxas says, "oops"
Bloaf has disconnected.
hoton feels that mooers are ticked off by simple little things
Daedelus has disconnected.
Jonny thinks of yduJ as the locus.
Dr.Sherry says, "how so, hoton?"
yduJ says, "Locus?"
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Like what, hoton?"
mondo wonders if Jonny means focus not locus?
Jonny says, "Well, kinda the loose center of you."
Gilmore thinks of yduJ as the whatever-it-was-in-Dream-Country.
Bloaf has connected.
PatGently's player is considering skipping morning class.
Gilmore says, "Oh wait, that was Doll's House."
Minstrel thinks MOO and USENET are both astonishingly human... fraught with
human difficulties.
hoton says, "like bonking, some people get real offended.  Why can't they just
ignore things are be less uptight?"
Bloaf rehis.
yduJ nods to Jonny.  "Sure, I agree with that.  Indeed, whenever I get into a
convo that devolves into RL, I really want to switch to yduJ."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "What, Gilmore?  You mean the Dream Vortex?"
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Yeah, that was Doll's House."
Eyes bbl
Eyes goes home.
Bloaf wonders how MOO and UseNet COULDN'T be human-like since humans design and
use them.
Gilmore bonks hoton hard with a really stale piece of French bread.
 - - - 21:44 - - -
Abraxas says, "hyperkinetic = physically hyperactive.. slim, almost anorexic."
hoton snatched the bread and eats it, yum
mondo eyes Gilmore's french bread
hoton says, "see what I mean, he bonked me, so what?"
Bloaf wonders if yduJ saw Real Genius.
Zman waves goodnight to all.
yduJ is not slim.  Not fat either.  She does have a lot of excess nervous
energy (picked up no doubt from Mt. Dew and M&Ms).
Xiombarg laughs at herself.
Taliesin is the opposite of hyperactive: lazy.
Jonny screws up somewhere along the line.
Minstrel says, "Some people take it seriously, and words do carry great weight.
You can inspire fury on a helpless reader on the MOO.  Of course, they have to
read before they are enraged, so they can't prevent it, which makes it more
infuriating."
 - - - 21:45 - - -
hoton says, "i think it's funny"
Zman goes home.
Bloaf thinks she has, and the girl (forget her ae) was hyperkinetic.
yduJ did see Real Genius and *LOVED IT*, Bloaf.
Xiombarg says, "I must be tired. I just typed dir to look. :)"
Taliesin says, "Except on J0LT."
Minstrel says, "That's why a lot of people end up @gaged."
Gilmore says, "Yes hoton, but a real person typed that in.  I could have meant
that as a signal that you were becoming annoying.  In fact, I did."
Dr.Dark_Side thinks yduJ is slim.  But is nothing like Jordan, if that's who
Bloaf is referring to.
Saruman doesn't mind bonking...now getting killed is another thing....I got
killed by a really high-up player, for no reason...that annoyed me alot!
yduJ is 5'8" and 170 lbs.  You decide.  She carries it well though.
Dr.Sherry is round and hyper, so it's hard to say.  :)
Xiombarg is certainally NOT the girl in Real Genius. She is most lazy.
Bloaf just meant that Jordan was hyperkinetic. Very, but it's the only example
I know.
hoton says, "then be blunt, if someone is bothering you, say so, there's no
reason to put up with it"
Abraxas smiles.
 - - - 21:46 - - -
Xiombarg says, "bonking can get annoying. Watch."
yduJ says, "Please don't, Xi."
Xiombarg bonks SamIAm with a rubber chicken.... SamIAm says "Hail Eris"
Xiombarg bonks Minstrel with a rubber chicken.... Minstrel says "Hail Eris"
Xiombarg bonks Dr.Dark_Side with a rubber chicken.... Dr.Dark_Side says "Hail
Eris"
Xiombarg bonks Taliesin with a rubber chicken.... Taliesin says "Hail Eris"
Xiombarg bonks Dr.Sherry with a rubber chicken.... Dr.Sherry says "Hail Eris"
Xiombarg bonks PatGently with a rubber chicken.... PatGently says "Hail Eris"
Xiombarg bonks Gilmore with a rubber chicken.... Gilmore says "Hail Eris"
Xiombarg bonks JimmyTheHand with a rubber chicken.... JimmyTheHand says "Thank
you sir, may I have another?"
Xiombarg bonks Bloaf with a rubber chicken.... Bloaf says "E eekwulz em see
skwayrd."
hoton can sense what will happen
JimmyTheHand is 5'9" and 130 lbs.
Gilmore was a bit surprised by yduJ's RL picture, but now finds it perfectly
congruous with VR personality.  Same for TamLin, A-B, Quinn, Starsinger.
PatGently arg!
Taliesin is 6'4" and 260 lbs.  What of it?
yduJ <- annoyed before the fact :-)
SamIAm stares off into the middle distance.
Jonny picks up annoying gun.
Dr.Sherry grins.
Bloaf says, "Hey!"
Abraxas recommends less chocolate and more vegetables and fish for *real*
excess nervous energy.. (not the kind which gets you strung out, either!)
Elrad says, "Hail Eris"
Minstrel says, "Most people would rather @gag or @eject than patiently explain
why they'd rather you didn't, for example, _virtually_ puke on their bed."
 - - - 21:47 - - -
Gilmore would have said 'Hail Eris' anyway.
Bloaf is 6'0" 190 and doesn't carry it well.
mondo looks at the ceiling.
There is a loud boom as a trap door swings open beneath Xiombarg. She falls
screaming into the darkness.
JimmyTheHand states, "We who are about to die...."
Dr.Dark_Side has never played/read Illuminati.
Jonny is 6'2", 165#
The housekeeper arrives to cart Daedelus off to bed.
Abraxas <- - 5'9 130
Gilmore is 6'1" 230 and finds it annoying.
mondo is 5' 11" and 129 pounds and looks like a wire.
dave climbs out of his Klein bottle
Jonny tires of lagging.
yduJ says, "Folks, let's can the bonking/teleporting fests."
Taliesin is huge.  Or at least, everyone else is tiny.
Dr.Sherry is 5'2 180 and likes the way Gilmore looks, dammit.
 - - - 21:48 - - -
Abraxas says, "hiya dave!"
PatGently is about the same height and weight as Xiombarg in RL.
Minstrel, feeling the peer pressure, admits he is 5'11" and 140.
Billy has disconnected.
dave says, "Howdy, 'brax!"
SamIAm is 6'2" and doesn't have a clue about his mass.
A piece of the scenery shifts shape and becomes Xiombarg.
Gilmore wonders if any of the 'dark mysterious but powerful' described-chars
really WERE mysterious and powerful IRL.  "Maybe God's mooing?"
Dr.Dark_Side is 5'8" 165
PatGently is mildly curious about who sent Xi to Hell.
Bloaf is unhappy with his appearance when he bothers to think about it, which
isn't really that ften..so he makes no attempt to lose weight, etc.
Taliesin so far is the heaviest and the tallest.
Minstrel laughs.
Saruman feels short...but not fat.
mondo thinks mass is such a strange thing. Relativity you know..
dave is concise.
hoton feels short too
Minstrel wonders why the Jesus-freaks haven't hit.
Primate's_Stick appears carrying a book on evolution entitled MUTATE NOW, PAY
LATER, and he begins to thumb through it with his opposable thumb.
Minstrel says, "They could even pretend to be the messiah himself!"
Gilmore found Dr.Sherry more aesthetically pleasing IRL because he already was
acquainted with her personality through MOO.
hoton says, "we'd bonk 'em"
mondo waves to PS
PatGently feels so light he bounces around near the ceiling.
Jonny looks like his desc, but is not pretty.
Xiombarg says, "I was going to apologize for the bonking, in fact it was on the
queue, but I said it in Hell instead."
Bloaf wonders if 'mondo's handle has anything to do with him being so wirelike.
Minstrel says, "And be believed by a few, at least!"
Primate's_Stick waves to mondo
Gilmore says, "Minstrel, what's your problem?  I'm a Christian.  You're
starting to really offend me."
yduJ BTW, failed to answer the question about was my desc a wannabe desc or
what, and the answer is "yes, yduJ and Nosredna have wannabe descs.  Eiram has
a fairly boring desc, and Hyperpelosity is just plain weird."
JimmyTheHand looks like hell
dave asks naively, "Are there Jesus-freaks on the moo?
Abraxas [to mondo]: have you read the VR magazine, _Mondo_?
Jonny says, "Hell?"
The bonking was on the queue already when yduJ objected, Xiombarg notes.
Minstrel bonks Gilmore.
 - - - 21:50 - - -
Taliesin doesn't care about religion.  Everyone follows their own path.
mondo thinks Bloaf hit it right on the head of the nail. To put it oddly.
Lilly says, "By the way, I'm new here.""
Gilmore thinks a lot of people would call him a Jesus Freak if they talked to
him about religion.
SamIAm [to Gilmore]: That's Ok, xtians generally offend me.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "What do you mean by a `Jesus-freak'?"
Abraxas says, "hiya Lilly!"
PatGently seems to have missed the entrance of Christianity into the
conversation.
Bloaf says, "Religion makes me very angry but I try not to argue about it with
people I want to be friends with."
hoton does not like organized religion, too easy to get off the correct track
JimmyTheHand feels his appearance is about as attractive as dirt
Lilly smiles
Xiombarg is a Discordian.
yduJ [to Lilly]: It's a big heavy now.  We're not usually like this.
mondo says, "No, my name is not from the vR magazine. Its from a musical grou[
called MONDO GUANO"
Dr.Sherry greets Lilly...you picked an interesting discussion to start with.
:)
audrey says, "sorry i was spawned off"
Minstrel objects to Mondo 2000 being called a "V-R magazine".
Saruman is having the guy who invented VR at his school tommorow, Krueger or
something like that?
Gilmore falls down laughing at hoton.  "That was too much, my friend.  Really!"
Abraxas says, "oh"
Lilly says, "Organized religion, for  all its faults, is at least organized.""
Xiombarg is a Discordian. Too easy to stay on that track. :)
Taliesin [Gilmore] I respect your religion if you respect mine.
Jonny used to be a Buddhist, but basically died spiritually a few months ago.
Zachary bows in again.
Bloaf thinks organization is it's major fault.
PatGently wonders what hoton means by the correct track.  sounds heavy.
JimmyTheHand has been in a rather self-degrading mood since dinner
Dr.Sherry is gonna come back as Tam.  brb.
Minstrel says, "More of a cutting-edge techno-punk super-zine."
Gilmore says, "True, Lilly!"
Dr.Dark_Side says, "There's a group called Big Batshit?"
SamIAm cheers Xiombarg!  What cabal?
Lilly says, "Is there another VR mag? Not that I know of... unless you mean
Cyberedge""
Minstrel says, "I think they only hit V-R real hard in one issue."
Abraxas wonders what Mondo 2000 is about.
audrey says, "you are no freak gil....what do you think abot me? do i
correspond to audreybIRL?"
Jonny says, "Mondo 2000 is too glossy now."
yduJ declines to state her religious beliefs
Dr.Sherry goes home.
Gilmore [Gilmore] I don't even respect my OWN religion.
Dr.Dark_Side looks incredulous.
mondo says, "Yeah, thir really a good group."
Xiombarg is also a SubGenius. Bit not as much as she's a Discordian. She
doesn't like pipes, tho she likes bongs. :)
Ford (6'4", 180) watches the conversation roll by at an impressive pace ..
hoton your religion has a main thread, it gets lost in the organization
 - - - 21:52 - - -
Minstrel adds mega-gloss to his @desc for Mondo 2000.
Abraxas says, "has anybody heard of SRL?"
SamIAm opines Religion would hit a MOOing community more than sex would.
Zachary asks Taliesin "If I ignore you're religion, will you ignore me?
Jonny grins at Ford.
Taliesin thinks Discordians are hilarious...
Lilly says, "Disorganized religions really get me down.  Honestyl.""
Abraxas says, "SRL <-> Survival Research Labs"
TamLin (permanence in change) floats in from above, holding on for dear life to
a large purple balloon.  She lands lightly in a heap of linen petticoats.
Standing up, she straightens her mantle and smiles sheepishly.
audrey says, "nope"
Zachary ergs. "mine?"
Bloaf thinks religion is the wrong way to go with this otherwise friendly
vonversation.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Hi, Tam..."
PatGently thinks Discordians are hilarious too.
Gilmore says, "audrey, you don't correspond description-wise as much as you'd
like to think.  IRL you look very cute and happy and cuddly, not at all
vampiric."
Xiombarg [SamIAm]: FDA Kabal.
mondo says, "SRL is pretty neat, have you seen any of theiir shows"
JimmyTheHand has to go as he closes the lab and somehow thinks this is a good
time....
audrey says, "hi tam"
Minstrel is a budding Taoist.  I see it as ancestral Discordianism.
Ford heard there's an SRL event in San Francisco tomorrow ..
Lilly says, "(is there so way to get comments not to break inot the lines you
are typin...?""
Bloaf asks everyone to deal with his typos.
PatGently hugs Xi.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "But she does have dark hair and very pale skin."
 - - - 21:53 - - -
dave worries about people who have their nose in a bible all the time...
Taliesin says, "Only if you want me to, Zach."
Abraxas says, "really!"
The housekeeper arrives to cart Billy off to bed.
TamLin re-hi's.
Xiombarg [SamIAm]: canonizers of St. BP-Dude
JimmyTheHand waves
audrey says, "I AM NOT CUTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Bloaf [to Lilly]: You nee a line mode type term or Emacs.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Bye, JTH.  Thanks for coming..."
Zachary grins.
Gilmore says, "YES YOU ARE, AUDREY."
Lilly nods, having heard of SRL
JimmyTheHand grins
Gilmore says, "TOO BAD!"
Jonny waves...
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Nope, Lilly.  Unless you have a chat mode on your
computer..."
yduJ says, "Muds in general sort of clobber religion.  Witness "wizards" as
everyday people in the universe."
Minstrel waves.
Abraxas [to Lilly]: try @pagelength <num> or @wrap on
hoton is having trouble following the scrolls
PatGently worries about people who have a Bible in their nose all the tiem.
Taliesin is Wiccan.  Was Southern Baptist.  Whatta change.
Xiombarg hugs Pat.
audrey weeps
Bloaf waves.
Zachary tries to ignore religion in people. 
Lilly sighs deeply
JimmyTheHand sneaks back to Thieve's Den, having just picked your pocket and
stollen your heart.
yduJ thinks this is devolving into randomness.  Dr.Sherry, Dr.Dark_Side, care
to inject some directoin?
audrey says, "this is too big a conversation"
Jonny hehs at yduJ.  "Wait til Distortion show up."
Dr.Dark_Side wonders how one fits a Bible in one's nose.
Xiombarg thinks audrey doesn't have to be cute if she doesn't want.
Zachary tries to ignore religion Period.
audrey says,
"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"
Taliesin grins at PG.
Xiombarg lags like there is a tommorrow, but far, far away.
audrey will repect any one who respects her and likes her hats and is
intelligent enough to get her to give a damn
Lilly says, "Okay, I tried word wrap... didn't do it.  Thanks, tho"
Primate's_Stick disappears, leaving a fluttering cloud of bad genes settling in
his wake.
Bloaf thinks the anti-religion talk is alienating the religious people here.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "You're right, yduJ.  We've pretty much convered what we
want to cover, though."
TamLin isn't sure that's possible, yduJ, after two hours...darkside?
Lilly says, "(I know, newbie questions.  Bad girl, Lilly... :/"
Gilmore says, "MOO has a religion very similar to Greek mythology, in that the
gods are anthroform and frequently engage in mortal affairs, and are fallible."
 - - - 21:55 - - -
Dr.Dark_Side says, "We just want to hear what people have to say at this
point..."
audrey nods to modno
SamIAm sings "When religion comes in, nothin' goes right"
audrey says, "mondo"
dave thinks much religion has alienated the non-religious here...
audrey says, "i like than analogy gil!"
audrey goes south.
Gilmore says, "audrey, I like your hats."
Lilly says, "It's hard to say anything when I can't get.... other messages to
stop while I'm typing... "
mondo goes south.
Jonny enjoys the casual mysticism of the MOO:  everything has a true name,
things can be divided into parts in a way that is correct, there is an ordering
of all things.
Gilmore feels alienated thanks to slaves like you, dve.
... yduJ is distracted by a page ...
Xiombarg says, "Is there such thing as virtual religion?"
A swirling vortex of forest leaves surrounds Taliesin, and they are blown away
by a gentle breeze, revealing Greenmantle.
Minstrel thinks the God's checkpoint every Monday.
SamIAm says, "Religion, unlike sex, exists at the same level as MOO VR -
histrionics/emotion/thought."
Abraxas notes that the first question he seems to ask any newcomer in VR is
where they're located, or where they're from.. a lot of them seem to get rather
paranoid about it.
Gilmore chuckles at Minstrel.
Bloaf is from NJ.
Greenmantle ROFL, Minstrel!  8^}
yduJ LOL at Minstrel!!!
Gilmore says, "Well, Abrax, many people come here to ESCAPE that life."
Abraxas is too.
Bloaf used to be paranoid for legal reasons concerning his access but really
doesn't care any more.
Abraxas says, "(from NJ)"
yduJ drops Chapel.
hoton waves goodbye
yduJ demonstrates Virtual Religion
Bloaf cheers at Chapel.
Saruman was originally from NJ too, but lives in CT now...
dave undulates
SamIAm bonks Jonny with the Tao Te Ching, Jonny says "I do not know its name,
so I call @audit"
PatGently hates people asking where he's from.  at least when they're insistent
after he's refused.  Hell, sometimes he even tells if people aren't hung up in
RL stuff.
Bloaf could be virtual Jesus but thinks that'd be pushing it.
Minstrel loses it with that apostrophe again. Rapid MOO typing definately kills
my weaker linguistic skills.
Jonny grins at SamIAm.
Greenmantle grins at yduJ }8^)
Bloaf s/be/bring
Minstrel LOL at SamIAm!
Saruman was in NJ on Sunday, as a matter of fact...
yduJ says, "Pat, do like Frand.  Make up an obvious lie, and stick to it."
Gilmore says, "ARGH!  LAB CLOSING!"
TamLin hugs Gilmore.
Gilmore kisses you all wetly on the elbows.
Zachary waves to gilmore.
Jonny says, "I believe in #1 the father, #2 the son, and #0, the holy ghost."
yduJ waves to Gil.
Gilmore goes home.
Greenmantle waves to Gilmore.
A little dragon flies into the room and cuddles up to Dr.Dark_Side. How cute!
After a good cuddle, the little dragon flies off in a warm glow.
>look chapel
Dr.Dark_Side says, "bye, gil..."
Lilly says, "I'm certainly here to exscape...""
Bloaf grins at Jonny.
Chapel
A very large box-shaped wooden structure. Its richly colored wooden surfaces
show off intricate carvings. Stained glass windows are set in its sides. There
seems to be a door you can enter. It is open.
Chaplain is inside.
Saruman says, "bye!"
Greenmantle loses.
Abraxas [to Lilly]: where are you from?
Lilly says, "From?"
Zachary thinks alot of the attreaction to teh MOO for him is in the Hacker
Spirit.
hoton turns a ring of teleport and disappears.
PatGently grins at the bearer of the bonking tao.
Minstrel suffers passing anxiety that MOO tracks his every host... best calmed
by using only one host, and behaving.
Bloaf thinks reality is an escape from MOO for him lately.
Lilly says, "When, from?"
Abraxas says, "where are you located now?"
Greenmantle wonders where the lag is coming from..."Who @audited?"
SamIAm says, "I think we should get Timmy Leary an account here."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "what do you mean, Zachary?"
Minstrel cheers!
Lilly says, "_That_ would be telling..."
Bloaf spends approx 1/2 his non-sleep/eat/work time on moo. maybe more.
dave 
TamLin grins at samiam.  good point.
Lilly says, "I've been in a lot of places, tho."
Abraxas says, "you don't have to :)"
Xiombarg dances with herself.
Jonny too, Bloaf.
PatGently dances with Xi so she won't be too lonely.
Bloaf thinks Leary's a quack.
Abraxas smiles.
Lilly says, "SF, NY, Mexico..."
dave is
Zachary says, "er... Hacker Spirit... uh... it's a kind of technological
communism where everyone is free and friendly with everyone else and they all
enjoy creating..."
Abraxas says, "wow!"
Lilly says, "SF, mostly."
Jonny is a Minnesotan.
SamIAm says, "It would give John Lilly someone to talk to."
Minstrel [to Bloaf] So what?  You can't let the clowns get you down.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Do you think that all that MOOing is a bad thing, Bloaf?"
Zachary says, "if you've felt it, you know it, if not, you never will..."
Abraxas says, "cool! :)"
Minstrel had that opinion for a long time, then just gave up and laughed at the
man.
Dr.Dark_Side thinks John Lilly is a quack.
Greenmantle likes the Hacker Spirits...give him a bottle!
Bloaf thinks Kesey was the true 60s spirit who deserves the attention Leary and
his  stuck up loons got.
dave jumps into his Klein bottle and disappears into the 11th dimension.
Lilly says, "Here's the thing, guys...."
Xiombarg flattens out into a largish 29 cent postage stamp and floats away.
Lilly says, "May I?"
Some gilchunks.  Then squirming.  Then Gilmore.
TamLin says, "go for it, lilly."
Bloaf [to Dr.Dark_Side]: no, i don't. i sometimes have more fun here than with
my irl friends.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Sure."
Lilly says, "Here''s the thing... I don't want to be rude, but..."
Abraxas says, "please!"
Minstrel might be able to Kesey to log in here... know someone who knows him.
Zachary points to HACKERS by Stephen Levy to try to explain it better...
TamLin says, "re-hi, Gil."
Ford hums a song about 'That Old Hacker Spirit' ..
Lilly says, "What are you all DOING here?"
Minstrel says, "More likely than Leary to log in, too."
A largish 29 cent postage stamp floats into the room and fattens up into
Xiombarg.
Xiombarg yawns and puts another command on the queue.
Bloaf thinks if l his IRL friends MOOed he'd be on even more.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "rehi, Gil."
Gilmore kicks his struggling, bound Roommate in the head.  "Shaddup...as if
Usenet is more important than this."
TamLin says, "good question, lilly.  :)"
Lilly says, "Before you answer in the pat way, hear me  out..."
Lilly says, "Why are you HERE?"
SamIAm likes the connection between Sensory Deprivation and MOOing that Jonny
brought up - and suggests to Dr.DS that even the chaff sometimes leads you to a
wheat field.
yduJ says, "We're holding a conference on "what is VR?  How does your character
interact with your RL?""
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Well, Dr.Sherry and I are doing our psychology thesis on
Lambda-MOO..."
Lilly says, "Why aren't you with live, flesh and blood folks?"
Abraxas says, "as opposed to where, Lilly?"
PatGently's player knows Kesey.
Lilly says, "Ah, I see."
Bloaf 's RL -IS- MOO.
yduJ is here because she hates her job.
Lilly says, "I mean "Ah, I see"
Gilmore says, "Because I like yduJ, and Bloaf, and Dr.Sherry, and you, better
than real folks."
yduJ has the coolest job in the universe and she hates it.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "We asked people to talk to us about MOOing..."
Xiombarg is. That is all she needs.
Lilly says, "I'm here because I'm lonely."
PatGently answers in a Pat way.
Bloaf doesn't mean he thinks MOO is reality and woships MOO or anything..
Abraxas keeps meeting flesh and blood people to a bare minimum.
SamIAm comforts yduJ
Jonny says, "real?"
TamLin is here because she can't be with Gilmore IRL, too.  :)
Greenmantle is here because at 1am where else would he be besides in a bar?
Minstrel is here because he envies yduJ's job.
Zachary is here cuz he wants to be and these people are nicer &more interesting
than most real folks...
Gilmore smiles at TamLin.
Bloaf just means that a very real part fhis life are his MOO friends, his MOO
time..
Lilly sighs
Gilmore is here because he's all out of vodka - again!
Xiombarg thinks MOO people are a good supplement to "real" people.
Jonny has a lot of unpleasamy reasons for being here.
Lilly wonders if we are here becase we can't deal with flesh and complexity
Ford thinks MOO people *are* real people ..
Dr.Dark_Side asks nonoffensively, "Why are you here, Lilly?"
Bloaf would have a hard time choosing between MOO and RL-lifestyles if he had
to.
Abraxas used to spend his day in his room.. he still does.
Greenmantle adds a healthy sprinkle of VR people to his flesh & blood.
Lilly says, "Because I'm lonely."
Minstrel pinches Ford.
Lilly says, "Because things are not going well in my personal life and I need
to escape."
Minstrel cuts himself.  "Do I not bleed?"
TamLin says, "VR is sometimes as much complexity as real life, Lilly...stick
around for a few weeks and see what I mean."
Lilly says, "How's that for anonymous honesty?"
Xiombarg hugs Lilly.
Bloaf [to Xiombarg]: MOO people are real personalities.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "There's no one out there IRL for you, Lilly?"
 - - - 22:04 - - -
Lilly says, "Oh, I KNOW TamLin."
Dr.Dark_Side hugs Lilly
Abraxas thinks flesh and blood engenders complexity which is redundant with the
benefit of social contact, albeit purely mentally.
Lilly says, "That's one of those questinos, Dark..."
PatGently says, "well, Lilly, you don;t escape social questions and personal
complications. but it is a different bunch."
Minstrel says, "Are you lonely right this minute, Lilly?"
Xiombarg [to Blaof]:I know, that's why i put in quotes.
Gilmore says, "How condescending of you, Dark_Side."
Zachary thinks that meeting friends on VR is less pressuring than IRL.
Lilly says, "could be right, Abra..."
Saruman says, "I have a tendency to talk to MOOers longer than IRL, my
girlfriend hates it . I will stay up to all hours of the night if I get
involved in a discussion."
PatGently pats Lilly gently.
Dr.Dark_Side didn't mean to be condescending.  
Bloaf wonders what it'd be like if all the MOO people lived near each other.
What would our RL lives be like together?
Lilly says, "But I do know about VR-complexity. "
Gilmore chuckles at Bloaf.
Jonny says, "Ask the people at Purdue, Bloaf."
Greenmantle agrees with Sharky...er, Saruman.
Bloaf is gonna stay up all night if the convo is here. 
yduJ finds it *very easy* to be involved in the MOO and not notice what time it
has become.
Zachary thinks we'd find a new MOO, Bloaf!
>hug lilly
You hug Lilly.
Bloaf will miss work if it's good enough and he stays up too late.
Lilly says, "Nonetheless, this kind of contact simplifies much.  That's why I"m
here."
PatGently agrees with Zachary.
Abraxas relishes his lack of social life and hasn't suffered physiologically or
psychologically.
Minstrel seriously doubts we could accomplish this much conversation IRL.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Well, TamLin, evangeline and I live in the same house."
Greenmantle knows what it'd be like...he's met alot of BBS'ers in Baltimore
IRL...it's an odd feeling.
... yduJ is distracted by a page ...
PatGently says, "and Xi and i live in the same room."
Abraxas says, "well.. maybe physiologically.. like monitor radiation :)"
Jonny puts on the melting face album.
Bloaf [to Jonny]: Purdue?
Zachary asks Dark_Side where Dr.Sherry went.
Lilly says, "Oh yes, Minstrel.  Absolutely."
Minstrel ohyeahs, Greenmantle, he hasn't been active on the seen for at least 6
years.
TamLin says, "I'm Dr.Sherry, Zach."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "We also know audrey, Q, worin, sieri, Starsinger, and a
whole bunch of other MOOers IRL..."
Bloaf actually met almost every one of his RL friends thru BBSs.
Minstrel finds it hard to think about anything but MOO while he's MOOing.
Zachary ohs.
Jonny [to Bloaf]: Oh, you don't go back very far in MUD history.  There was a
huge enclave of MUDders there.
Zachary asks TamLin if she's read his mail.
Minstrel finds it sad that Lilly isn't as caught up.
... yduJ is distracted by a page ...
Bloaf says, "Correction- HASmet all his RL friends thru BBSs or thru people he
met on them."
Minstrel says, "At least you aren't _alone_."
Gilmore says, "I know audrey, Starsinger, Dr.Dark_Side, TamLin, Dr.Fate,
Malkavian, Zeek, and Quinn IRL."
PatGently met Xi on a school BBS.
Abraxas brb
Minstrel says, "Seeing a movie, _alone_."
Xiombarg [to Bloaf]:Me, too! Or over the computer somehow.
 - - - 22:07 - - -
yduJ has met many MOOers IRL.  However, when they visit her, her housemates
give her a hard time because all we do is sit and MOO together and talk about
MOOing.
Greenmantle found his current beliefs through BBSs.
TamLin says, "not yet zach...should I go read it now, or...?"
Gilmore says, "Heck, Dr.Fate, Malk, Zeek, and Quinn all MOO from my VAX
account."
Zachary know only people he has introduced to the MOO on the MOO..
Minstrel says, "Or watching TV, _alone_."
Gilmore says, "In fact, they're all ME!"
Zachary says, "you might get a new conversation direction out of it..."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "I don't think we did that much, yduJ."
Abraxas has disconnected.
Xiombarg kisses Pat. "Lucky thing, that was. :)"
Minstrel says, "Or even talking on the phone, to one person."
Jonny laughs at yduJ.  "I'll have to come visit soon."
yduJ thinks that MOOing with someone IRL there next to you really is different
than MOOing with that person on different continents.  You get to see if they
*really* laugh out loud when they type :LOL :-)
 - - - 22:08 - - -
Gilmore wanna visit yduJ IRL.  Wonders how long it'd be before yduJ @eject'ed
him.
Abraxas has connected.
TamLin says, "I think it can be a good way of meeting people, though...I think
it's an unusually fast (not forced, but fast) way to intimacy (I mean
emotional, not in a sexual sense)..."
Dr.Dark_Side loves yduJ's house.
Gilmore says, "True, TamLin."
Saruman says, "I had alot of my friends using MOO from my account, but they all
got recycled"
Jonny says, "Actually, Joe and I ended up MOOing a lot when he was back."
Abraxas is now typing from his notebook portable via radio link.
Bloaf's non-MOOfriends think Bloaf & Skot (RL friend and MOOer) are addicted to
a cheesy game and don'trealize that MOO is a more social environment than RL.
Lilly says, "Yes, TamLin"
Greenmantle agrees with TamLin.
Abraxas grins.
Abraxas types as he walks.
Jonny and Joe have a very odd relationship now.
Lilly says, "Quick intimacy... but is it a false intimacy?"
Zachary wonders if there is ANY major character who has only 1 player on the
game.
PatGently thinks Bloaf is in the wrong RL.
Xiombarg [to Bloaf]:that varies with a person's social environ, thanx.
Lilly says, "Simple terms, I know..."
TamLin notes that she and Gil will drive up to Boston one of these days, when
she learns to drive.  but anyway...
PatGently only has one character here.
SamIAm asks Lilly what true intimacy is.
Zachary says, "not really... just a limited intimicy, Lilly."
Gilmore also notes how MOO can be an ego-stroker.  "If you make a good point,
everyone in the room says something like ':agrees with TamLin.'  This rarely
happens to me IRL; most people just stare at me.  But wait, that happens here
too...umm..oops..."
Lilly says, "But might you reather be there in person...havin somone hold you?"
Greenmantle has met one MOO person after meeting them on MOO.  It was odd, for
both of us.
yduJ was going to offer Xythian as example to Zachary, but he does actually
have two characters.
Bloaf means there are more people to socialize with and ingeneral than his
'closed group' of RL friends.
Gilmore says, "That's true, Lilly...believe me, I know."
Lilly says, "Or kiss you?"
Dr.Dark_Side would, Lilly.  
PatGently laughs at Gilmore's comment.
Abraxas says, "do you believe in multiple intimacy, Lilly>"
SamIAm agrees with Gilmore
Bloaf would rather RL associate with MOO people (as well as MOO associate).
Lilly says, "Multiple intimacy?  Is that like polyfidelity or something?"
Abraxas says, "can you be intimate with more than one person?"
Dr.Dark_Side says, "But I like this, because it allows me to expand my social
life."
Xiombarg agrees with Gilmore. Twice.
TamLin says, "I don't think it's false, Lilly, because it's a different medium
altogether...I'm the kind of person who cringes at false intimacy and I have
not often found that quick close friendships here seem false.  I don't know
why."
Lilly says, "Why not?"
Saruman used his IRC nick as his name, but realized it wasn't too fitting for
the MOO environment, so made a new character (this one) the other one never
gets used unless my GF is on, she likes that character better.
Jonny [sings]: I will dial any number, I will talk to anyone.
Xiombarg stares at Gilmore.
Dr.Dark_Side would, however, prefer a RL SO to a virtual SO>
Lilly says, "But I don't mean ithe abstract, I mean... NOW.  Here."
Abraxas believes VR enhances the turnover of intimacy, if that's what it is
used for.
Zachary says, "MOO Intimacy!=RL intimacy due to the fact that your MOO player
is not you physically, and so you don't react as emotionally to stimulus."
 - - - 22:11 - - -
Gilmore has both, Dark_Side.
TamLin would rather have a certain person holding her IRL, yes...
Dr.Dark_Side would take a virtual SO over no one, however.
Lilly says, "To have soeone hold you in their arms... that's very different."
Ozzy scampers out from behind a shadow and plops down beside kodoze's feet.
kodoze materializes out of thin air.
Bloaf thinks devoting all of himself to one person would be unfair to others
and himself.
Dr.Dark_Side knows that, Gilmore!
A little dragon flies into the room and cuddles up to Lilly. How cute! After a
good cuddle, the little dragon flies off in a warm glow.
PatGently is so tired he's likely to grab Xiombarg and drag Xi's player off to
bed.
Lilly says, "A touch on the face, a stroke of the hair..."
SamIAm sings "It gets so strange across the border"
Gilmore falls down laughing.
Saruman waves to kodoze
Greenmantle would like _ANY_ SO! }8^)
TamLin grins at Pat and Xi.  wishes she could do the same but he's six hours
away.  :)
Abraxas agrees.
hippie teleports in.
Lilly says, "Immediate."
yduJ threw her SO back in the waters.  These things never work out.
kodoze waves to Saruman
Zachary says, "depends Lilly; if you know how someone means something, really
KNOW that they would hug you in person if they were there, don't you get teh
same feeling as if they aactually were?"
PatGently grabs Xiombarg.
 - - - 22:12 - - -
Gilmore says, "You're right, Lilly."
Lilly says, "You know what I mean."
yduJ <- over the hill and a little worried about it
Dr.Dark_Side is sorry for yduJ.
Jonny laughs at yduJ's phrasing.
Xiombarg wonders if Dr.Dark_Side has logged the VR conversation. She'd like to
see it sometime.
SamIAm says, "In my experience, it's a mistake to expect a S.O. to give you
_everything_ a human needs in interpersonal stuff - not fair on the S.O. and
ultimately destructive of the relationship."
TamLin says, "but there is definitely something about emotional intimacy too,
even when it's not tied to the physical...and vr can have some pretty intense
emotional intimacy."
which is why netsex is pointless!     --Abraxas
PatGently says, "hello, hippie. we're just heading out."
Lilly says, "At least I hope you do."
hippie says, "hello all"
kodoze says, "Hows things, Saruman?"
A little dragon flies into the room and cuddles up to yduJ. How cute! After a
good cuddle, the little dragon flies off in a warm glow.
Gilmore says, "There's so much that doesn't translate ..."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "You are NOT over the hill, yduJ?"
Lilly says, "But here... you can say anything, be anyone..  That's the magic,
isn't it."
Jonny feels over the hill---burned out.
Xiombarg kisses hippie gleefully.
TICK TICK   TICK        ++yduJ
hippie says, "I'm lagged badly . . ."
Greenmantle wonders how the good Dr.s will be able to log all of this...he's
got about 10% on his 1k buffer!
Abraxas thinks the thought complements the action, and can substitute for
physical contact, but is of neccesity a very poor substitute.
PatGently says, "hippie, you missed a confusing cool discussion on VR."
kodoze pets Ozzy.
Ozzy wags his tail and licks kodoze's hand.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Read the sign, Xi.  I'm logging."
Jonny laughs.
SamIAm admits to yduJ-lust, but unlike Gilmore, keeps it to himself.
TamLin says, "xi, both dr.dark and I have the conversation logged; send me your
RL address and I can send you a copy (sometime in the next month)  :)"
Zachary agrees with TamLin.
Gilmore sings, "I'm gonna break my rusty chain and run..."
Lilly says, "No small thing, that."
The sound of one biological clock counting down        ++yduJ
PatGently yawns again.
Xiombarg says, "How do I get a copy?"
Bloaf envies the relationship 2 of his friends have. They don't demand anything
of each other or put any restrictions on the other, but neither really violates
whatever bond they have. They just 'are'.
Abraxas always tries to represent himself as he is in RL.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "You are not over the hill, yduJ!!!!!"
Zachary has maybe 1/2 in his 64k buffer..
Lilly says, "Never, yduJ?"
yduJ complains about spaces getting flushed between verb and argstr
Gilmore says, "Cage, that is.  Oops.  Slip of the fingers."
Xiombarg says, "oh, okay. dankmyer@ac.grin.edu"
Abraxas has an 8 meg buffer..
Lilly says, "No, Zach. No."
Dr.Dark_Side hugs yduJ
yduJ [to Lilly]: How about "not yet"
kodoze says, "Saruman, HardWares serve is open..."
Abraxas says, "but i missed the first half hour."
Lilly says, "Yes, Tamlin, but not the same."
PatGently waves goodnight and falls over in a stupor.
 - - - 22:15 - - -
Jonny is broken.
Bloaf unfortunately lost most of this convo due to netdeath.
Ishmael appears in a flash of over-the-top special effects.
Xiombarg hugs EVERYONE. That's one VR action.
Dr.Dark_Side hasn't had overload, yet!
PatGently goes home.
Lilly sometimes get frustrated at the delays.
Bloaf [to Jonny]: Broken?
Dr.Dark_Side says, "yduJ, you're not old!!!"
Eyes appears in a flash of over-the-top special effects.
Saruman goes home.
TamLin is waiting to overload any second.  :)
yduJ agrees, actually Dr.D.
kodoze goes home.
Greenmantle has a 2k buffer, sorry.
Abraxas says, "hiya Eyes!"
Ishmael says, "hello again"
Xiombarg shifts and turns into a writhing ball of matter. The ball flies away.
Jonny says, "Broken is the best word I can think of."
 - - - 22:16 - - -
yduJ doesn't know what she wants to be when she grows up.  This can be
disconcerting when she compares her mental state with her physical age.
Lilly says, "I feel very old these days, too."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "As soon as we clean up and edit, you can have a copy, Xi."
Eyes says, "hi there"
Dr.Dark_Side hugs Xiombarg.
Greenmantle waves, but wants to log off, turn on some Enya, and fall asleep.
Bloaf wonders what it's in reference to..
hippie goes home.
Lilly agrees with abraxas.
Eyes says, "Ab!"
SamIAm sings "All the young dudes, carry the news"
Lilly says, "Too much delay here... I'm lost"
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Rehi."
Abraxas thinks it's all psychological.
Bloaf doesn't want to know what he'll be doing next month, much less tomorrow.
Greenmantle says, "Merry part, merry meet again!  Blessed be!"
Eyes lags badly...
Abraxas hugs Eyes! :)
TamLin waves.
Dr.Dark_Side curses the lag.
Bloaf hates having a job because it means a schedule.
Jonny is broken psychologically.
yduJ wants to sell her house and quit her job.  She could live for a REALLY
LONG TIME on the resulting money.
Zachary waves to GreenMantle.
Eyes hugs Ab!
A swirling vortex of forest leaves envelops Greenmantle, and carries him away.
Dr.Dark_Side waves goodbye...
Bloaf tries to motivate himself to do anything and never can.
yduJ can't though.
Gilmore says, "I know the feeling, Bloaf..."
Minstrel waves!
yduJ says, "It would be too complicated.  Too many RL people would hate it."
Gilmore says, "I have a CS project due at 11:30am."
SamIAm waves
Ishmael says, "oh, why not yduJ?"
Lilly disappears suddenly for parts unknown.
Gilmore says, "I haven't started."
Ishmael was answered already
Abraxas has nothing due anytime.
Eyes tickles the lag monsters
Minstrel's desperate, hope he hasn't left already, don't have time to scan for
it wave.
Bloaf is very mixed up..He wants to go to college but doesn't, wants to do
something with his life but hinks everything is futile..
Gilmore says, "I don't even know what the assignment is."
Dr.Dark_Side says, "bummer, gil."
Gilmore says, "Yah."
yduJ owns the house in common with three other people, who would have to agree
to the sale, and lives in an area where the real estate market is, shall we
say, not moving.
Zachary gets tired of Def Leppard after 3 hours and turns off his stereo.
SamIAm [to Bloaf]: everything is futile - so what.
Jonny doesn't want to do anything that other people think he should do.
Minstrel says, "Get a job and go to school part time.  You won't have enough
time to worry about whether you're doing what you want to do, and you'll be
making money and completing a degree."
Minstrel's planning to do that in the fall.
Abraxas wonders if yduJ would condider getting a buyer to fund her share of the
equity.
Dr.Dark_Side would live in yduJ's house, but her next place of residence will
be Johns Hopkins, which is just a LITTLE too far away...
Gilmore says, "Better yet, get a lobotomy and live in the woods like a feral
beast."
Gilmore says, "Since that's an accurate depiction of the work world anyway."
Zachary asks where Johns Hopkins actually IS.
yduJ would, Abraxas.  "Got $50K?"
Abraxas nods.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "Baltimore..."
Abraxas grins.
Zachary ahs.
yduJ says, "And willing to take over a $135K mortgage?"
Zachary asks if anyone is anywhere NEAR Texas.
Ishmael is concerned for Bloaf "You can't establish *worth* in anything, but
maybe you can find something you like, 'something to believe in' even if you
know it's fragile
 - - - 22:20 - - -
Minstrel says, "Break a leg, Jonny."
yduJ says, "Of course, the other three people have to agree..."
Jonny has good bones at least. :-)
Minstrel laughs at Gilmore belatedly.
TamLin wonders if she could put up her and Gilmore if they eloped and escaped
to Boston.  :)
Bloaf [to Ishmael]: I don't believe in anything, respect anything, desire
anything, have anything, or expect anything..
Gilmore grins at TamLin.  "Great idea!  yduJ, will you go for it?"
Zachary asks when the wedding is, TamLin.
Bloaf says, "It doesn't boheme thugh, which scares me to an extent."
yduJ says, "TamLin, Gilmore, you are always welcome at my hosue."
 - - - 22:21 - - -
Bloaf says, "bother-me-tho. damn emacs."
yduJ says, "Even spelled right."
Jonny desires lots of things.  That's why he's not a Buddhist any more.
Gilmore says, "In 6 hours, Zack. I'm stealing a motorcycle RIGHT NOW!"
TamLin says, "really, Gil?"
SamIAm [to Jonny]: No-one believes you're broken dude - bummer
Dr.Dark_Side says, "No you're not, Gilmore."
yduJ would lend you hers, Gil, but it's kinda far away.
Bloaf desires things but not enough to do anything for them.
Gilmore sticks his tongue out at Dark_Side.
TamLin thinks you should wait a day or two till she gets over the flu, since
you probably don't want a red-nosed half-asleep bride, Gil...
Minstrel has a friend who desires lots of things.  That's why he's a coke
dealer.  Dangerous, a weakness, to want too much.
Jonny [to SamIAm]: Yeah, well, look at what school I'm at.
Dr.Dark_Side requires her thesis partner.
Abraxas wonders how Eyes is doing with her other windows.
Jonny wants to indulge in self-pity.
Eyes stares off into the middle distance.
Gilmore has a friend who desires lots of things too.  That's why he's a
criminal of all descriptions.
TamLin will elope with Gil after May 17th then.  :)
Bloaf thinks the dangris part of what he desires.
Dr.Dark_Side says, "What school are you at, Jonny?"
yduJ indulges Jonny.  "Let's all have a mutual i-hate-my-life fest!"
... yduJ is distracted by a page ...
Gilmore says, "Well Tam, we can steal evangeline's car when I'm there in three
weeks, okay?"
Minstrel says, "With that cheery thought, I bid you adieu.  Wish me luck in my
arduous journey on foot and bus through Gangland, USA!"
Zachary gets married RL on May 16th.
Dr.Dark_Side doesn't hate her life.  Oh well.
Dr.Dark_Side congratulates Zachary.
Jonny waves.
TamLin waves to Minstrel
Jonny says, "Good luck."
Zachary LIKES his life. and his fiancee & her... nevermind.
Gilmore chimes in with yduJ and Jonny, singing the refrain "Life sucks, life
sucks, life it really blows!"
Ford waves ..
 - - - 22:23 - - -
Bloaf hates the way other people run their lives much more than his own.
Dr.Dark_Side is reasonably content now that she figured out what grad school to
go to.
Zachary grins evilly.
Minstrel thanks, c'ya in a bit :-).
TamLin doesn't hate her life but really wants out of college right now, and
wants to be healthy, and wants to be with Gil.  there.
Minstrel goes home.
Cooter scampers out from behind a shadow and plops down beside Murf's feet.
Murf appears in a flash of over-the-top special effects.
Jonny says, "No, life is wonderful, I just can't cope with it."
Gilmore notes his life would be a lot better, were he with TamLin.
TamLin blushes.
	< disconnected: Minstrel. Total: 45 >